Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It can be granted on an individual basis if damages are proven.

That's how our civil legal system works. Damages have to proven, and the defendant has to be shown to be the proximate cause of the harm that resulted in the damages.

Reparations are something entirely different and you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on this board trying to arbitrate a situation that you have no part of after having benefited from reparations paid to your family FOR BEING JEWISH. How is that not reparations based on race since you're ALWAYS posted about being Jewish in the Race & Race Relations forum.

You're pathetic.

 

[Lisa558]

Says the "person" whom herself or her family members have received reparations for being Jewish.

"Reparations for me, none for thee"

The only person in my family who received reparations, a minimal amount, was my step grandfather, who survived the Holocaust but was left with physical debilities his entire life. Most of his stomach was missing.

Not one other person in my family received a cent. And they suffered a bigger loss than YOU ever did.

You’ve got some nerve comparing a man who lived off grass and insects for two years while he fought with the partisans to the middle-class child of black college graduates. GMAFB.

You’re pathetic.

 

[Lisa558]

That's how our civil legal system works. Damages have to proven, and the defendant has to be shown to be the proximate cause of the harm that resulted in the damages.

Reparations are something entirely different and you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on this board trying to arbitrate a situation that you have no part of after having benefited from reparations paid to your family FOR BEING JEWISH. How is that not reparations based on race since you're ALWAYS posted about being Jewish in the Race & Race Relations forum.

You're pathetic.

You are quite ignorant. My family didn’t get reparations for being Jewish! Only ONE person in my family, who survived the Holocaust DIRECTLY, got reparations. My grandmother didn’t receive a cent after her own mother, and sister, and four nieces and nephews were MURDERED for being Jewish, and that’s a hell of a lot worse than anything YOU havr ever suffered. My other grandmother lost her brother and his children, and she didn’t get a cent either.

These black activists have some crazy idea that Jews got reparations for being Jewish. They did not.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

But even then, it shouldn’t be everyone. The children of college-educated parents should not, as the odds are both they and their parents gained from affirmative action. They already received reparations.

LOL you need to ask for a refund from whatever law school you attended.

 

[Lisa558]

LOL you need to ask for a refund from whatever law school you attended.

I’m a lawyer? News to me.

But the fact is that MOST blacks over the past 40 years were admitted to their colleges because they were black, and that is their reparations. For those blacks who feel they suffered damages and have not yet received repararions via AA, they can apply.

 

[noonereal]

it is a slippery slope at best....what minority cant claim they were hurt a century ago by government policies....native americans..women...the list just goes on

Pretty much all immigrants were discriminated against.

 

[Lisa558]

Says the "person" whom herself or her family members have received reparations for being Jewish.

"Reparations for me, none for thee"

i never received repararions. My brother did not. My sister did not. My cousins did not. My mother did not. My father did not. My uncle did not, My aunt did not. My grandmothers did not. My grandfathers did not. My great-aunts and great-uncles did not.

Only ONE person - my step-grandfather - received a modest amount after DIRECTLY surviving the Holocaust, and living in physical discomfort for the remainder of his life.

You need to get over your erroneous idea that all these Jews received reparations for being Jewish.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Redistribution of wealth at the barrel of a government gun is redistribution of wealth at the barrel of a government gun, no matter how it's compartmentalized or the language used to justify it.

 

[Hector12]

Hell, they haven't even paid us back for the damage they did in the '68 MLK riots yet.

To say nothing of the Rodney King riots, the George Floyd riots, and all the other crime they have committed since. We would be much better off without them. They would be lost without us.

 

[Foxfyre]

Agree….100%.

Coyore thinks that NYC blacks in the 40s who enjoyed a taxpayer-paid college education (in my father’s college) and thus prepared for a successful career, should STILL get repararioms because IF they went down South, they had to ride in segregated cars. Was it right? No. But all told, they gained tremendously by the government’s generosity.

Not sure if you read my earlier comment, but I told Joe my parents were very grateful for being born in America, where bright and capable students were provided with a free education. And blacks were in their class, and I said that I imagined these blacks must be very grateful as well, and for the same reasons. They were all able to moeve from the tenements and the ghettos - thanks to America.

I think that’s a key difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives are grateful for the opportunities in America, and liberals want blacks to feel resentful for the past in America - even if it was that same America that gave them a first-rate college education and prepared them for a successful life.

I remember a very profound series of remarks by the late Walter E. Williams PhD who headed the George Mason University economics dept. for awhile and is named Professor Emeritus there, brilliant syndicated columnist, sought after speaker and at times radio host, author of 10 I believe best selling books.

Williams has nothing to say to defend slavery or segregation/Jim Crow laws or any other discrimination toward black people just because they are black. He grew up in very modest means, attended segregated schools, and suffered the same indignities that other black people of the 40's and 50's endured. But it just made him all the more determined to get his education that culminated in an illustrious academic career.

The one thing left wing black and white people alike hated to hear him say that as terrible and indefensible as it was when slave traders captured and dragged his ancestors over here, he personally is grateful that they were sold into slavery in America and not somewhere in the Caribbean or South America where most of the slaves went. Or they might have remained in Africa on what he suspects was the gold coast at that time and he would have been born there with huge odds that he would have been born into abject poverty as well as despotism with almost no liberty, choices, options, opportunity available to him.

He knows with much gratitude that he personally benefitted mightily from being born into even a Jim Crow America, growing up and getting a segregated education, etc. here and benefitting from being able to go after the American dream both for himself and his family. He remains one of my heroes and mentors.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You’ve got some nerve comparing a man who lived off grass and insects for two years while he fought with the partisans to the middle-class child of black college graduates. GMAFB.

I'm am so tired of having to reiterate how horrible the Holcaust was. WE ALL KNOW IT WAS A TERRIBLE AND INHUMANE THING. But that does not give you license to use that incident to crap all over other humans who have suffered inhumane and horrendous acts against them as well. Being college educated does not negate the damage done throughout one's lifetime at the hands of white and apparently some Jewish supremacists.

YOU Lisa didn't say a damn thing at all when I shared that many of the historical events we've discussed here on this message board involve actual family members and cited the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist church by members of the KKK in 1963. This is current history within living memory, within my lifetime.

Law enforcement knew who did it but it took decades before any of the white supremacists were held accountable because that's just the way our country was when this happened. Black people were legally relegated to 2nd class citizen status and no one had the courage to do anything to upset the status quo. Well except maybe Bill Baxley...

Eight years after Klansmen bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church and killed four African-American children in 1963, Bill Baxely became the attorney general of Alabama. One of the first thing he did upon taking office was write down four names on a piece of paper: Addie Mae Collins; Carole Robertson; Cynthia Wesley; and Denise McNair — the victims of the attack.​

​

The case had been left unsolved, and Baxley was determined to change that. "I’m just thankful that I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I had the power to do something about it when the opportunity came up," he told us. And he did. In 1977, Baxley convicted the bombing ringleader, Robert Chambliss, of first degree murder. Chambliss died in prison in 1985.​

​

But that wasn't the way the Klan thought the story would play out. When Baxley took office at the age of 29, the stage seemed set to let Chambliss and his accomplices walk free. Instead, Baxley reopened the case and began turning the heat up. As a result, words of hate and threats of retaliation poured in. Baxley told us:​

​

I got a stack of threats from all over the country. There were more of them from outside the South than from the South — by a goodly number too.​

One of those threats came by way of a letter written on 19 February 1976 by Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Edward R. Fields. In the letter, Fields demanded a reply — so Baxley gave him one. On official Alabama Office of the Attorney General letterhead, Baxley wrote a one-sentence response that would become legendary. It simply said:​

​

 

[Lisa558]

I'm am so tired of having to reiterate how horrible the Holcaust was. WE ALL KNOW IT WAS A TERRIBLE AND INHUMANE THING. But that does not give you license to use that incident to crap all over other humans who have suffered inhumane and horrendous acts against them as well. Being college educated does not negate the damage done throughout one's lifetime at the hands of white and apparently some Jewish supremacists.

YOU Lisa didn't say a damn thing at all when I shared that many of the historical events we've discussed here on this message board involve actual family members and cited the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist church by members of the KKK in 1963. This is current history within living memory, within my lifetime.

Law enforcement knew who did it but it took decades before any of the white supremacists were held accountable because that's just the way our country was when this happened. Black people were legally relegated to 2nd class citizen status and no one had the courage to do anything to upset the status quo. Well except maybe Bill Baxley...

Eight years after Klansmen bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church and killed four African-American children in 1963, Bill Baxely became the attorney general of Alabama. One of the first thing he did upon taking office was write down four names on a piece of paper: Addie Mae Collins; Carole Robertson; Cynthia Wesley; and Denise McNair — the victims of the attack.​

​

The case had been left unsolved, and Baxley was determined to change that. "I’m just thankful that I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I had the power to do something about it when the opportunity came up," he told us. And he did. In 1977, Baxley convicted the bombing ringleader, Robert Chambliss, of first degree murder. Chambliss died in prison in 1985.​

​

But that wasn't the way the Klan thought the story would play out. When Baxley took office at the age of 29, the stage seemed set to let Chambliss and his accomplices walk free. Instead, Baxley reopened the case and began turning the heat up. As a result, words of hate and threats of retaliation poured in. Baxley told us:​

​

One of those threats came by way of a letter written on 19 February 1976 by Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Edward R. Fields. In the letter, Fields demanded a reply — so Baxley gave him one. On official Alabama Office of the Attorney General letterhead, Baxley wrote a one-sentence response that would become legendary. It simply said:​

​

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Yes, it was AWFUL what the KKK did to blacks. Still doesn’t mean that those who didn’t suffer that directly - like the NY blacks in the 40s who got college educations funded by the government - deserve reparations.

Only Jews who suffered directly got repararions. The majority of Jews didn’t see a cent.

The same should be with blacks.

 

[Lisa558]

NewsVine_Mariyam

Also, many others on this thread agree with me. Why have you not attacked and insulted them?

You’ve really got to get over your resentment of Jews who, as a group, have succeeded well above average - and went from tenement slums to middle class houses in a generation, and WITHOUT reparations.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Katherine Johnson PhD was an extraordinary black woman who was so gifted in math she was drafted by NASA for their fledgling space program in 1953. Jim Crow laws were still very much in effect at NASA in 1953, and Katherine had to walk/run 20 minutes from the building she was assigned to get to a black only restroom and then walk/run 20 minutes back to her desk. When the director of NASA questioned these long absences from her desk and got the explanation, Jim Crow laws ended at NASA real fast.

Johnson worked 33 years for NASA and was instrumental in working out math problems that eventually allowed us to put men safely into space and on the moon and get them safely home again.

Ask Katherine Johnson if she was due reparations for growing up and getting her education under the Jim Crow laws, which she did, she would have laughed in your face.

It looks like you watched the movie Hidden Figures but missed many of the issues that it put on display.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. Do you think that Mrs. Johnson received the same pay for the same work that she performed as her white male co-workers?
2. I can't recall but didn't one of her white male co-workers take full credit for a paper that was based on research by both of them or maybe even mostly by Mrs. Johnson?
3. Do you think Mrs. Johnson DESERVED to receive equal pay and be given credit for those written reports that they were producing?

Lastly,
4. Do you know who Lilly Ledbetter is?

By the way, none of the things that they did in the movie were a violation of the law because they all occurred prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if I recall correctly. So while these things were not unlawful, do you think they were right?

Just because a Black person manages to navigate a systemically racist system and rise within the ranks does not mean that they are not entitled to recompense for all of the wrong done to them throughout their life especially when that wrong is sanctioned by our government.

You all are trying to shame Black people into being against reparations, as if accepting them is an indication of some sort of weakness, when to the contrary, had it been any of your family members or loved ones being treated so horribly and violently, I find it hard to believe that you would not want recompense for them.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

NewsVine_Mariyam

Also, many others on this thread agree with me. Why have you not attacked and insulted them?

You’ve really got to get over your resentment of Jews who, as a group, have succeeded well above average - and went from tenement slums to middle class houses in a generation, and WITHOUT reparations.

There are a lot of extremely ignorant and uneducated people posting on this message board. The fact that many of them agree with you is not a positive.

And quit lying about my dislike of you as a person being a resentment of Jewish people as a group. You know that's not true and you repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it any more valid today than the first time you uttered it.

None of the Black people in America have received reparations either but many of us have still obtained various measures of success in spite of the deck being stacked against us including laws giving many advantages to whites in order to assist them in upward mobility while at the same time denying the same to Black people as well as creating additional laws to hamstring us in our quest for upward mobility.

I know IM2 invited you to debate the laws that assisted the Jewish migrants that sought refuge in the United States when fleeing from Hitler and the Nazi's. Even though you still won't admit it, your people were able to take advantage of our laws and programs because you are not of African descent so IM2 was correct in stating that your people were given advantages that were denied to Black Americans due to our race.

We can see all through that mask you wear.

 

[AZrailwhale]

That's how our civil legal system works. Damages have to proven, and the defendant has to be shown to be the proximate cause of the harm that resulted in the damages.

Reparations are something entirely different and you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on this board trying to arbitrate a situation that you have no part of after having benefited from reparations paid to your family FOR BEING JEWISH. How is that not reparations based on race since you're ALWAYS posted about being Jewish in the Race & Race Relations forum.

You're pathetic.

The reparations paid to Jews were paid to the SURVIVORS of the extermination camps. Not to people who were never in camps. The surviving family members still can’t access the wealth deposited by their families in Swiss banks because the bankers demand proof of death and the Nazis were very inconsiderate in not issuing death certificates for those either gassed or worked to death in the camps. You were never a slave, and unless you lived in the Deep South, Jim Crow was at worst a minor inconvenience even IF you are more than seventy years of age. In most of the country, Jim Crow meant no mixed marriages and not much more.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It looks like you watched the movie Hidden Figures but missed many of the issues that it put on display.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. Do you think that Mrs. Johnson received the same pay for the same work that she performed as her white male co-workers?
2. I can't recall but didn't one of her white male co-workers take full credit for a paper that was based on research by both of them or maybe even mostly by Mrs. Johnson?
3. Do you think Mrs. Johnson DESERVED to receive equal pay and be given credit for those written reports that they were producing?

Lastly,
4. Do you know who Lilly Ledbetter is?

By the way, none of the things that they did in the movie were a violation of the law because they all occurred prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if I recall correctly. So while these things were not unlawful, do you think they were right?

Just because a Black person manages to navigate a systemically racist system and rise within the ranks does not mean that they are not entitled to recompense for all of the wrong done to them throughout their life especially when that wrong is sanctioned by our government.

You all are trying to shame Black people into being against reparations, as if accepting them is an indication of some sort of weakness, when to the contrary, had it been any of your family members or loved ones being treated so horribly and violently, I find it hard to believe that you would not want recompense for them.

As I recall from the movie, he didn’t deny her credit because she was black, but because she was a calculator. In the movie it’s made clear that there were both black and white calculators at that facility. Calculators were grunts like secretaries. The guy was a sexist jerk, not a racist jerk; like most of his co-workers he wasn’t from the south.

The men she worked with were engineers, so, no she didn’t deserve the same pay, plus in the sixties almost no women got the same pay as men. Like IM2 you see racism everywhere.

 

[Foxfyre]

It looks like you watched the movie Hidden Figures but missed many of the issues that it put on display.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. Do you think that Mrs. Johnson received the same pay for the same work that she performed as her white male co-workers?
2. I can't recall but didn't one of her white male co-workers take full credit for a paper that was based on research by both of them or maybe even mostly by Mrs. Johnson?
3. Do you think Mrs. Johnson DESERVED to receive equal pay and be given credit for those written reports that they were producing?

Lastly,
4. Do you know who Lilly Ledbetter is?

By the way, none of the things that they did in the movie were a violation of the law because they all occurred prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if I recall correctly. So while these things were not unlawful, do you think they were right?

Just because a Black person manages to navigate a systemically racist system and rise within the ranks does not mean that they are not entitled to recompense for all of the wrong done to them throughout their life especially when that wrong is sanctioned by our government.

You all are trying to shame Black people into being against reparations, as if accepting them is an indication of some sort of weakness, when to the contrary, had it been any of your family members or loved ones being treated so horribly and violently, I find it hard to believe that you would not want recompense for them.

I grew up at a time that women were not allowed to have many jobs available to men, that pregnant women were often not allowed to work for pay at any stage of pregnancy, etc. etc. And yes I was paid less than my male counterparts even though I worked just as hard and just as long hours and was just as productive. It was only when I was allowed to take jobs once available only to the guys that I earned as much or more than they did.

But I have managed to have a extremely eclectic, interesting, and rewarding career in my working years and I do not feel that anybody owes me anything.

I would be embarrassed and ashamed to ask the government or anybody else to compensate me for those years I had to make do with 'women's work and pay.' And yes. Any able bodied black person who had ability to educate himself/herself, learn a trade, and reach for the American dream should be ashamed to ask for reparations for injustices 60 years ago and should be embarrassed to accept such. Should feel insulted that it was offered actually.

 

[Lisa558]

There are a lot of extremely ignorant and uneducated people posting on this message board. The fact that many of them agree with you is not a positive.

And quit lying about my dislike of you as a person being a resentment of Jewish people as a group. You know that's not true and you repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it any more valid today than the first time you uttered it.

None of the Black people in America have received reparations either but many of us have still obtained various measures of success in spite of the deck being stacked against us including laws giving many advantages to whites in order to assist them in upward mobility while at the same time denying the same to Black people as well as creating additional laws to hamstring us in our quest for upward mobility.

I know IM2 invited you to debate the laws that assisted the Jewish migrants that sought refuge in the United States when fleeing from Hitler and the Nazi's. Even though you still won't admit it, your people were able to take advantage of our laws and programs because you are not of African descent so IM2 was correct in stating that your people were given advantages that were denied to Black Americans due to our race.

We can see all through that mask you wear.

1) The black people who got into college due to their skin color already received reparations.

2) The majority of Jews did not receive reparations - only those who suffered and survived the Holocaust.

3) Stop your constant personal insults and false accusations. We are in Zone 1.

4) And all blacks will NEVER get reparations because to give out broad benefits based on nothing more than what race you are is in violation of the Constitution.

 

[JoeB131]

he only person in my family who received reparations, a minimal amount, was my step grandfather, who survived the Holocaust but was left with physical debilities his entire life. Most of his stomach was missing.

Not one other person in my family received a cent. And they suffered a bigger loss than YOU ever did.

You’ve got some nerve comparing a man who lived off grass and insects for two years while he fought with the partisans to the middle-class child of black college graduates. GMAFB.

You’re pathetic.

Your relative was only troubled for two years. Blacks have suffered racism for generations. They are still suffering from racism.

As for Reparations, what should they consist of? My view, what we gave Japanese Americans was fine, not a life-changing amount of money, but an amount of money that signified regret along with a heartfelt apology.