Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[JoeB131]

1) The black people who got into college due to their skin color already received reparations.

No one got into college because of their skin color. Until you get rid of all the white privilege in admissions, you really can't complain about Affirmative Action (which has mostly benefited white women).

2) The majority of Jews did not receive reparations - only those who suffered and survived the Holocaust.

America had nothing to do with the Holocaust. And give the hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives we shed playing Hall Monitor In the Middle East, we have more than paid for that stupidity.

3) Stop your constant personal insults and false accusations. We are in Zone 1.

YOu first.

4) And all blacks will NEVER get reparations because to give out broad benefits based on nothing more than what race you are is in violation of the Constitution.

Show me in the constitution where that is prohibited. That line was already crossed when we paid the same restitution to a Japanese-American who spent a few weeks in a camp as the ones who spent the duration of the war.

 

[Lisa558]

I grew up at a time that women were not allowed to have many jobs available to men, that pregnant women were often not allowed to work for pay at any stage of pregnancy, etc. etc. And yes I was paid less than my male counterparts even though I worked just as hard and just as long hours and was just as productive. It was only when I was allowed to take jobs once available only to the guys that I earned as much or more than they did.

But I have managed to have a extremely eclectic, interesting, and rewarding career in my working years and I do not feel that anybody owes me anything.

I would be embarrassed and ashamed to ask the government or anybody else to compensate me for those years I had to make do with 'women's work and pay.' And yes. Any able bodied black person who had ability to educate himself/herself, learn a trade, and reach for the American dream should be ashamed to ask for reparations for injustices 60 years ago and should be embarrassed to accept such. Should feel insulted that it was offered actually.

And worse….anyone who says the above is called a racist, especially if they are Jewish. Just look at the insults hurled my way!

Beyond that, everything you say is spot on, which is why I brought up the free college educations my father, mother, and many blacks were given by New York, back in the 40s. These were all poor kids - but bright, studious, and motivated.

My parents were always exceedingly grateful for the free college educations and noted to me numerous time how they had wonderful lives because of it - from tenement slums to the middle class in the span of a decade. I said the same would be true of blacks in their college class - grateful for the opportunity given them by this country.

Instead, I was met with responses that those blacks STILL deserve reparations because IF they went down south, they had to deal with Jim Crowe laws like riding in a separate car. OK….not good….but then again, it wasn’t good that antisemitism was so high after the war that a bright Jewish boy couldn’t get hired and had to move to another city.

Still, my father only mentioned that last bit in passing. He remained grateful to his dying day for the country that gave him a college free education. I too am grateful because I was born to college-educated parents, as were the kids of Dad’s black classmates.

To think now that the KIDS of the black classmates, who grew up in middle-class comfort AND were likely to have gained admittance to their own selective college due to affirmative action ALSO deserve reparations is greedy and entitled.

 

[Coyote]

And worse….anyone who says the above is called a racist, especially if they are Jewish. Just look at the insults hurled my way!

Beyond that, everything you say is spot on, which is why I brought up the free college educations my father, mother, and many blacks were given by New York, back in the 40s. These were all poor kids - but bright, studious, and motivated.

My parents were always exceedingly grateful for the free college educations and noted to me numerous time how they had wonderful lives because of it - from tenement slums to the middle class in the span of a decade. I said the same would be true of blacks in their college class - grateful for the opportunity given them by this country.

Instead, I was met with responses that those blacks STILL deserve reparations because IF they went down south, they had to deal with Jim Crowe laws like riding in a separate car. OK….not good….but then again, it wasn’t good that antisemitism was so high after the war that a bright Jewish boy couldn’t get hired and had to move to another city.

Still, my father only mentioned that last bit in passing. He remained grateful to his dying day for the country that gave him a college free education. I too am grateful because I was born to college-educated parents, as were the kids of Dad’s black classmates.

To think now that the KIDS of the black classmates, who grew up in middle-class comfort AND were likely to have gained admittance to their own selective college due to affirmative action ALSO deserve reparations is greedy and entitled.

Just as an FYI, it wasn’t just “riding in a different car” or “drinking from a different water fountain”. It was planning travel so as to find (scarce) accommodations that allowed Blacks, the constant threat of lethal racial violence, roads that were not safe for a Black family to travel on, housing choices restricted to the worse neighborhoods. “Seperate but equal” was found to violate their Constitutional rights under the 14th amendment. You keep minimizing the impact.

 

[Lisa558]

The reparations paid to Jews were paid to the SURVIVORS of the extermination camps. Not to people who were never in camps. The surviving family members still can’t access the wealth deposited by their families in Swiss banks because the bankers demand proof of death and the Nazis were very inconsiderate in not issuing death certificates for those either gassed or worked to death in the camps. You were never a slave, and unless you lived in the Deep South, Jim Crow was at worst a minor inconvenience even IF you are more than seventy years of age. In most of the country, Jim Crow meant no mixed marriages and not much more.

I’ve pointed that out before. My grandmother lost her mother, sister, brother-in-law, and four nieces and nephews, and never received a dime. Nor would she have thought she should.

And it is disgusting that these blacktivists try to compare blacks living up north who would have to sit in different train cars IF they went down South to the Jews who survived the horrors of the Holocaust and had their families, homes, and assets stolen from them,

 

[Coyote]

No one got into college because of their skin color. Until you get rid of all the white privilege in admissions, you really can't complain about Affirmative Action (which has mostly benefited white women).


America had nothing to do with the Holocaust. And give the hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives we shed playing Hall Monitor In the Middle East, we have more than paid for that stupidity.


YOu first.


Show me in the constitution where that is prohibited. That line was already crossed when we paid the same restitution to a Japanese-American who spent a few weeks in a camp as the ones who spent the duration of the war.

Exactly…that pretty much nulls the idea that any reparations should be based on individual cases. That would be setting a different standard….because of race? Hmmm.

 

[Coyote]

I’ve pointed that out before. My grandmother lost her mother, sister, brother-in-law, and four nieces and nephews, and never received a dime. Nor would she have thought she should.

And it is disgusting that these blacktivists try to compare blacks living up north who would have to sit in different train cars IF they went down South to the Jews who survived the horrors of the Holocaust and had their families, homes, and assets stolen from them,

Many Blacks living up north, due to the great migration, still had family in those southern states.

 

[Lisa558]

Just as an FYI, it wasn’t just “riding in a different car” or “drinking from a different water fountain”. It was planning travel so as to find (scarce) accommodations that allowed Blacks, the constant threat of lethal racial violence, roads that were not safe for a Black family to travel on, housing choices restricted to the worse neighborhoods. “Seperate but equal” was found to violate their Constitutional rights under the 14th amendment. You keep minimizing the impact.

Still not comparable to being almost starved to death in a concentration camp or hiding in the forest and then living with less than half your stomach the rest of your life.

ALSO, if I had a choice between having to ride in a separate train car or having my entire immediate family murdered by Hitler, I would choose the train car. The Jews who lost their entire families received no reparations, nor did they ask for any. That a black man who received a free college education and lived a great life as a result should get reparations because IF he went down south 70 years ago he was subjected to Jim Crowe is ridiculous.

 

[JoeB131]

Instead, I was met with responses that those blacks STILL deserve reparations because IF they went down south, they had to deal with Jim Crowe laws like riding in a separate car. OK….not good….but then again, it wasn’t good that antisemitism was so high after the war that a bright Jewish boy couldn’t get hired and had to move to another city.

Except no one knew they were Jewish unless they said something. It isn't discrimination if you have to self-identify. I pronounce my family name a certain way because my Grandfather didn't want to sound too German. But at the end of the day, he could do that. Blacks cannot. They still have to put up with every racist cop or employer out there.

As Coyote pointed out, it wasn't just "riding in a separate car". It was carefully planning your trip to not get arrested for vagrancy. Because until 1942 in this country, we had something called "Debt Peonage", where black people could be arrested on minor violations, sentenced to work it off, and then never be released because the cost of their room and board could be added to their "Debt". The only reason Congress finally outlawed it was because they realized we couldn't bitch about what the Nazis and Japanese were doing if we were still doing that stuff.

Still, my father only mentioned that last bit in passing. He remained grateful to his dying day for the country that gave him a college free education. I too am grateful because I was born to college-educated parents, as were the kids of Dad’s black classmates.

That's nice. Most black people never got to go to college.

To think now that the KIDS of the black classmates, who grew up in middle-class comfort AND were likely to have gained admittance to their own selective college due to affirmative action ALSO deserve reparations is greedy and entitled.

Or it's a recognition of 400 years of institutionalized racism.

 

[JoeB131]

ALSO, if I had a choice between having to ride in a separate train car or having my entire immediate family murdered by Hitler, I would choose the train car. The Jews who lost their entire families received no reparations, nor did they ask for any. That a black man who received a free college education and lived a great life as a result should get reparations because IF he went down south 70 years ago he was subjected to Jim Crowe is ridiculous.

Hitler didn't murder anyone in the US. He shouldn't be part of the conversation.

You have a complaint, take it up with Germany.

 

[Lisa558]

Many Blacks living up north, due to the great migration, still had family in those southern states.

Still doesn’t compare to having one’s entire family mirdered by Hitler, and those Jews didn’t get reparations.

 

[Flash]

Deserves reparations:
Black 70-year-old who lived in Alabama: this particular black was deprived of equal rights for not being allowed to drink at certain water fountains, swim in certain public pools, or attend certain public schools.

Wrong!

Nobody in the US deserved to be given money that they didn't earn.

The 1964 Civil Rights Acts and the Great Society welfare crap was more than enough.

The South experienced a 100 year economic depression because of the illegal invasion of the Union assholes. If anybody should get repairations it should be White Southerners. Like me. I demand reparations.

 

[Lisa558]

Just as an FYI, it wasn’t just “riding in a different car” or “drinking from a different water fountain”. It was planning travel so as to find (scarce) accommodations that allowed Blacks, the constant threat of lethal racial violence, roads that were not safe for a Black family to travel on, housing choices restricted to the worse neighborhoods. “Seperate but equal” was found to violate their Constitutional rights under the 14th amendment. You keep minimizing the impact.

Just curious….Foxfyer said the same thing I did, but took it even further - saying she thought blacks asking for reparations for something that happened 70 years ago would be EMBARRASSED for doing so. She also stated that Jim Crowe laws in many states were minimal, meaning blacks and whites couldn’t marry.

Why do you not argue with her, or others who are saying the identical things I am - only stronger - and yer focusing your argument only with the one Jewish poster? Why are you not telling Foxfyer she is minimizing the impact?

Or what about Flash, who just posted above? He said NO blacks should get reparations. Why not argue with him?

 

[Foxfyre]

And worse….anyone who says the above is called a racist, especially if they are Jewish. Just look at the insults hurled my way!

Beyond that, everything you say is spot on, which is why I brought up the free college educations my father, mother, and many blacks were given by New York, back in the 40s. These were all poor kids - but bright, studious, and motivated.

My parents were always exceedingly grateful for the free college educations and noted to me numerous time how they had wonderful lives because of it - from tenement slums to the middle class in the span of a decade. I said the same would be true of blacks in their college class - grateful for the opportunity given them by this country.

Instead, I was met with responses that those blacks STILL deserve reparations because IF they went down south, they had to deal with Jim Crowe laws like riding in a separate car. OK….not good….but then again, it wasn’t good that antisemitism was so high after the war that a bright Jewish boy couldn’t get hired and had to move to another city.

Still, my father only mentioned that last bit in passing. He remained grateful to his dying day for the country that gave him a college free education. I too am grateful because I was born to college-educated parents, as were the kids of Dad’s black classmates.

To think now that the KIDS of the black classmates, who grew up in middle-class comfort AND were likely to have gained admittance to their own selective college due to affirmative action ALSO deserve reparations is greedy and entitled.

While some demographics are historically more oppressed than others--black people and Jews are particularly notable re that--there are relatively few Jewish people living now who experienced the Holocaust, relatively few black people living now who were hindered or harmed in any way by Jim Crow laws. There are no people living today who experienced slavery. And there are relatively few people living now who administered, condoned, or tolerated either the Holocaust or Jim Crow laws.

To expect somebody like you or me or millions of others who have NEVER mistreated or maligned another person due to his/her race, ethnicity, religion or whatever to pay restitution to somebody for what happened to others 60, 70, 80 years ago is not only ludicrous but would also be a huge injustice.

Returning to Walter E. Williams, here is one of his better essays on the subject of reparations. Bear in mind, that Walter grew up under Jim Crow laws and knows he descended from slaves:

Reparations for Slavery

Several Democratic presidential hopefuls are calling for Americans to make reparations for slavery. On June 19, the House judiciary subcommittee on the constitution, civil rights and civil liberties held a hearing. Its stated purpose was “to examine, through open and constructive discourse, the...

walterewilliams.com

". . .Slavery was a gross violation of human rights. Justice demands that all participants in the trans-Atlantic slave trade make compensatory reparation payments to slaves. However, there is no way that Europeans could have captured millions of Africans. That means compensation would have to be paid by Africans and Arabs who captured and sold slaves to Europeans in addition to the people who bought and used slaves. Since slaves and slave traders and owners are no longer with us, compensation is beyond our reach and it’s a matter that will have to be settled in hell or heaven. . ."

". . .As of 2014, U.S. taxpayers have spent $22 trillion on Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty (in constant 2012 dollars). Adjusting for inflation, that’s three times more than was spent on all military wars since the American Revolution. If money alone were the answer, the many issues facing a large segment of the black community would have been solved.

There’s another possible reparations issue completely ignored: Blacks as well as whites live on land taken, sometimes brutally, from American Indians. Do blacks and whites owe American Indians anything?"

 

[Dogmaphobe]

lol!!!

You laugh because you know you do not deserve "reparations" for something you never experienced, yet indulge in race pimping, anyway.

It's such a shame that you waste so much energy begging for freebies when you could apply it towards developing some life skills, instead.

 

[IM2]

And please NO reparations to any individual who has been found guilty of a violent crime!!!

To give reparations to such an individual would be a grievous insult to the victim, who might be lying in his/her grave at this very moment.

Whites has committed more violent crime than anybody else and have been given all kinds of financial help from the government. They got money while the blacks, native americsns, hispanics, and asians they killed were lying in graves, many of them unmarked.

 

[IM2]

Why in the hell do you ignorant.......continue to argue about reparation only for slavery? You have been shown instances where reparations were paid in recent years to groups for atrocities occurring in the 1800's. Jim Crow continued the atrocities and while Jim Crow ended on paper in 1964, in some places its still an unwritten policy. You have been shown that racism has cheated blacks out of more than 16 trillion dollars IN THIS CENTURY. So stop talking about slavery, because reparations are owed for continuing white racism happening now.

Reparations are not unconstitutional.

 

[IM2]

While some demographics are historically more oppressed than others--black people and Jews are particularly notable re that--there are relatively few Jewish people living now who experienced the Holocaust, relatively few black people living now who were hindered or harmed in any way by Jim Crow laws. There are no people living today who experienced slavery. And there are relatively few people living now who administered, condoned, or tolerated either the Holocaust or Jim Crow laws.

To expect somebody like you or me or millions of others who have NEVER mistreated or maligned another person due to his/her race, ethnicity, religion or whatever to pay restitution to somebody for what happened to others 60, 70, 80 years ago is not only ludicrous but would also be a huge injustice.

Returning to Walter E. Williams, here is one of his better essays on the subject of reparations. Bear in mind, that Walter grew up under Jim Crow laws and knows he descended from slaves:

Reparations for Slavery

Several Democratic presidential hopefuls are calling for Americans to make reparations for slavery. On June 19, the House judiciary subcommittee on the constitution, civil rights and civil liberties held a hearing. Its stated purpose was “to examine, through open and constructive discourse, the...

walterewilliams.com

". . .Slavery was a gross violation of human rights. Justice demands that all participants in the trans-Atlantic slave trade make compensatory reparation payments to slaves. However, there is no way that Europeans could have captured millions of Africans. That means compensation would have to be paid by Africans and Arabs who captured and sold slaves to Europeans in addition to the people who bought and used slaves. Since slaves and slave traders and owners are no longer with us, compensation is beyond our reach and it’s a matter that will have to be settled in hell or heaven. . ."

". . .As of 2014, U.S. taxpayers have spent $22 trillion on Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty (in constant 2012 dollars). Adjusting for inflation, that’s three times more than was spent on all military wars since the American Revolution. If money alone were the answer, the many issues facing a large segment of the black community would have been solved.

There’s another possible reparations issue completely ignored: Blacks as well as whites live on land taken, sometimes brutally, from American Indians. Do blacks and whites owe American Indians anything?"

And don't post arguments from black --- kissing Unclle Toms who were paid over a million dolllars from white right wing organizations like Water Williams.

The GOVERNMENT owes you frickin idiot. And blacks were brought over here by whites, so don't try lumping us in with the land theft whites committed against Native Americans.

All the racist excuses are meritless.

 

[Foxfyre]

Many Blacks living up north, due to the great migration, still had family in those southern states.

So what? I am not Jewish, but delving into my genealogy, it is quite likely I had family who experienced the Holocaust. As horrible, unconscionable as that was, how am I personally harmed in any material or physical way due to that?

Honorable black people who stayed in school and educated themselves, got married before having kids, who were willing to do grunge work to develop work ethic, experience, references, and who have succeeded professionally know they personally were not harmed by either slavery or Jim Crow laws however reprehensible and unconscionable both of those conditions were.

Like Walter E. Williams PhD has oft pointed out, however terrible and unconscionable slavery was, he personally has benefitted by somebody dragging his ancestors over here in chains. He personally has had infinitely more opportunity, choice, options, ability to become successful and prosperous as a citizen of the USA than he most likely would have had if he had been born on the gold coast of Africa where he thinks his ancestors probably came from.

And who should get reparations and who should pay them?
--descendants of slaves and/or Jim Crow laws who are now millionaire athletes and/or successful, prosperous professionals?
--descendants of black people who were slave owners?
--descendants of those slave traders who bought the captives the BLACK slave hunters brought out of the jungles to them?
--descendants of black people who migrated here after all that was no more and who they or their parents/grandparents never experienced any of that?
--descendants of white people who risked or gave all including their lives to give black people their freedom and all civil rights?
--Irish people and Asian people who also experienced their time of discrimination here in the USA?

When intellectual honesty allows the whole big picture to come into view, the whole concept of reparations becomes more and more ludicrous. And yes, those demanding it demonstrate a whole new level of historical ignorance. And black people demanding it should be ashamed, even insulted that it is even suggested.

 

[IM2]

So what? I am not Jewish, but delving into my genealogy, it is quite likely I had family who experienced the Holocaust. As horrible, unconscionable as that was, how am I personally harmed in any material or physical way due to that?

Honorable black people who stayed in school and educated themselves, got married before having kids, who were willing to do grunge work to develop work ethic, experience, references, and who have succeeded professionally know they personally were not harmed by either slavery or Jim Crow laws however reprehensible and unconscionable both of those conditions were.

Like Walter E. Williams PhD has oft pointed out, however terrible and unconscionable slavery was, he personally has benefitted by somebody dragging his ancestors over here in chains. He personally has had infinitely more opportunity, choice, options, ability to become successful and prosperous as a citizen of the USA than he most likely would have had if he had been born on the gold coast of Africa where he thinks his ancestors probably came from.

And who should get reparations and who should pay them?
--descendants of slaves and/or Jim Crow laws who are now millionaire athletes and/or successful, prosperous professionals?
--descendants of black people who were slave owners?
--descendants of those slave traders who bought the captives the BLACK slave hunters brought out of the jungles to them?
--descendants of black people who migrated here after all that was no more and who they or their parents/grandparents never experienced any of that?
--descendants of white people who risked or gave all including their lives to give black people their freedom and all civil rights?
--Irish people and Asian people who also experienced their time of discrimination here in the USA?

When intellectual honesty allows the whole big picture to come into view, the whole concept of reparations becomes more and more ludicrous. And yes, those demanding it demonstrate a whole new level of historical ignorance. And black people demanding it should be ashamed, even insulted that it is even suggested.

-Millionaire athlletes face racism now and what's the diifference between a black millionaire athlete getting a one time payment than the white billionaire that gets corporate welfare every year?
-Most black slave owners bought their spouses, children and relatives to keep their family together
-America made slavery legall, anything happening in Africa is irrelevant
-Descendants of blacks who moved here faced Jim Crow and today face whiite racism.
-Whites fighting to end injustice whites started do not deserve reparations.
-Irish were never slaves and they practiced Jim Crow. As for Asians:



When intellectual honesty allows the whole big picture to come into view whites like you will shut up because you will learn the full extent of what the government has done.

 

[Coyote]

So what? I am not Jewish, but delving into my genealogy, it is quite likely I had family who experienced the Holocaust. As horrible, unconscionable as that was, how am I personally harmed in any material or physical way due to that?

Honorable black people who stayed in school and educated themselves, got married before having kids, who were willing to do grunge work to develop work ethic, experience, references, and who have succeeded professionally know they personally were not harmed by either slavery or Jim Crow laws however reprehensible and unconscionable both of those conditions were.

Like Walter E. Williams PhD has oft pointed out, however terrible and unconscionable slavery was, he personally has benefitted by somebody dragging his ancestors over here in chains. He personally has had infinitely more opportunity, choice, options, ability to become successful and prosperous as a citizen of the USA than he most likely would have had if he had been born on the gold coast of Africa where he thinks his ancestors probably came from.

And who should get reparations and who should pay them?
--descendants of slaves and/or Jim Crow laws who are now millionaire athletes and/or successful, prosperous professionals?
--descendants of black people who were slave owners?
--descendants of those slave traders who bought the captives the BLACK slave hunters brought out of the jungles to them?
--descendants of black people who migrated here after all that was no more and who they or their parents/grandparents never experienced any of that?
--descendants of white people who risked or gave all including their lives to give black people their freedom and all civil rights?
--Irish people and Asian people who also experienced their time of discrimination here in the USA?

When intellectual honesty allows the whole big picture to come into view, the whole concept of reparations becomes more and more ludicrous. And yes, those demanding it demonstrate a whole new level of historical ignorance. And black people demanding it should be ashamed, even insulted that it is even suggested.

I think you've misunderstand what I've been saying. If there are reparations to be made, it shouldbetiedto Jim Crowe. Any Black person, still alive, who lived in the US prior to it's overturning would be eligible. Their constitutional rights were violated and it caused quantifiable damage. In this way it is in line with reparations given to others and would not include descendants.