Breaking News. Plane crash in DC. Collided with either helicopter or drone over Potomac.

[toobfreak]

And it was above altitude restrictions.

They should not have helicopters operating within 100 feet of commercial aircraft anyway.

 

[Oddball]

They should not have helicopters operating within 100 feet of commercial aircraft anyway.

They shouldn't have DEI promotions who are clearly not experienced enough as PIC of such flights.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

there should never be any aircraft within 1000ft of commercial aircraft on their final approach to the runway

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Tell a woman she's wrong! Isn't that a court martial offense?

Only for my wife.

 

[toobfreak]

there should never be any aircraft within 1000ft of commercial aircraft on their final approach to the runway

1000 feet is the general recognized FAA standard. Even at that, there has been incidences where two planes were flying the same corridor between two cities and one was supposed to be at 32,000 feet, the other at 33,000 feet and someone screwed up and they still flew right into each other.

Planes use dual systems, both air pressure and mainly radar reflection from the ground and are really accurate, usually within ten feet of the assigned altitude.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

They should not have helicopters operating within 100 feet of commercial aircraft anyway.

Altitude restriction takes care of that.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Planes use dual systems, both air pressure and mainly radar reflection from the ground and are really accurate, usually within ten feet of the assigned altitude.

They’d better be or landing would be a bear.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Planes use dual systems, both air pressure and mainly radar reflection from the ground and are really accurate, usually within ten feet of the assigned altitude.

Not sure how accurate they are over water, though.

 

[toobfreak]

Altitude restriction takes care of that.

Well, you see, here is part of the problem as I see it. Here is a diagram I just drew up of the relative sizes of the Learjet and Blackhawk to each other.
The diagram also shows the agreed upon separation between the two they were supposed to be flying apart, agreed by the FAA, military and airport, assuming both were right on the mark, meaning that given instrument error, they might be flying even closer while still doing everything right. Keep in mind their paths (and air turbulance) would be at right angles to each other. And this is under clear, stable conditions. Add to that the jet is coming in for a landing, so their attention is focused straight ahead on the runway and their instruments, not looking around the area for errant choppers.

The final kicker was the chopper's ADS-B was switched off, which /would/ have reported to the controllers the chopper's location and altitude. Had the controllers been fully staffed, something should have caught their notice that the chopper was not giving out altitude and location data. Then to add insult to injury, an hour earlier, one of the controllers was sent home for the night. See any problem here? Seems to me that these choppers ought to by flying their missions SOUTH of the airport rather than crossing right under the main commercial landing corridor!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well, this is just dumb if true.

A low level experienced, former Biden White House aid, who only had 500 hours of flying over the years and maybe hadn't flown in several years, allowed to pilot that flight in a high traffice area.

​

The Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast was off in the chopper, Sen. Ted Cruz said.​

​

A key safety system was off in the U.S. Army helicopter that collided with a plane near Washington in January, a senator said on Feb. 6.​

​

The Black Hawk helicopter had turned off its automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B), an advanced surveillance technology to track aircraft location, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) told reporters after a briefing with officials from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).​

​

“This was a training mission, so there was no compelling national security reason for ADS-B to be turned off,” said Cruz, who chairs the Senate Commerce Committee.​

​

ADS-B systems in general require federal aviation authorization, although authorization is needed to conduct more advanced operations using the systems, according to the FAA. ADS-B systems are permitted but not required for military aircraft.​

​

...​

Key Safety System Off in Army Helicopter That Collided With Plane: Senator

The Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast was off in the chopper, Sen. Ted Cruz said.

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[Cellblock2429]

They should not have helicopters operating within 100 feet of commercial aircraft anyway.

/---/ At 100+ mph, 100 feet is nothing. That's 146 feet per second. They would need more than 1,000 fett of seperation.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Well, you see, here is part of the problem as I see it. Here is a diagram I just drew up of the relative sizes of the Learjet and Blackhawk to each other.
The diagram also shows the agreed upon separation between the two they were supposed to be flying apart, agreed by the FAA, military and airport, assuming both were right on the mark, meaning that given instrument error, they might be flying even closer while still doing everything right. Keep in mind their paths (and air turbulance) would be at right angles to each other. And this is under clear, stable conditions. Add to that the jet is coming in for a landing, so their attention is focused straight ahead on the runway and their instruments, not looking around the area for errant choppers.

The final kicker was the chopper's ADS-B was switched off, which /would/ have reported to the controllers the chopper's location and altitude. Had the controllers been fully staffed, something should have caught their notice that the chopper was not giving out altitude and location data. Then to add insult to injury, an hour earlier, one of the controllers was sent home for the night. See any problem here? Seems to me that these choppers ought to by flying their missions SOUTH of the airport rather than crossing right under the main commercial landing corridor!
View attachment 1076271

The Learjet didn't hit the blackhawk, a regional airliner did. You got two crashes conflated.

 

[toobfreak]

/---/ At 100+ mph, 100 feet is nothing. That's 146 feet per second. They would need more than 1,000 fett of seperation.

The Learjet was likely flying close to 140 knots, so let's say 150 mph, and the BH probably flying 100 mph, both closing at right angles, at night. Add to that the night vision they were using has a narrow viewing angle, about 40°AFOV, so you are very restricted in your side view. Being only 100 feet or even 200 feet apart is insanely close.

Early reports were that the BH tried to veer off at the last second but by then, it was too late.

 

[airplanemechanic]

The Learjet was likely flying close to 140 knots, so let's say 150 mph, and the BH probably flying 100 mph, both closing at right angles, at night. Add to that the night vision they were using has a narrow viewing angle, about 40°AFOV, so you are very restricted in your side view. Being only 100 feet or even 200 feet apart is insanely close.

Early reports were that the BH tried to veer off at the last second but by then, it was too late.

DUDE STOP. THE BLACKHAWK HIT AN AIRLINER, NOT THE FUCKING LEARJET. THE LEARJET DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING BUT THE GROUND.

 

[toobfreak]

The Learjet didn't hit the blackhawk, a regional airliner did. You got two crashes conflated.

The BH hit into the tail section of the Leerjet.

 

[toobfreak]

DUDE STOP. THE BLACKHAWK HIT AN AIRLINER, NOT THE FUCKING LEARJET.

OK, yeah, well, I was thinking of the Mexican kid, but what difference does it make? The problem remains the same, except now, the target is even bigger.

 

[airplanemechanic]

The BH hit into the tail section of the Leerjet.

NO IT DIDN'T. NOTHING HIT THE GOD DAMNED LEARJET. And its LEARJET not LEERJET.

What we know about the American Airlines plane and Army helicopter crash over D.C.'s Potomac River

A regional jet carrying 64 people collided with an Army Black Hawk helicopter carrying three soldiers. Here's what we know about the incident so far.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[toobfreak]

DUDE STOP. THE BLACKHAWK HIT AN AIRLINER, NOT THE FUCKING LEARJET. THE LEARJET DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING BUT THE GROUND.

Happy now? Here is the relative sizes of the Blackhawk next to the Bombardier CRJ700 airliner at the same separation. It just makes the problems already listed even worse. The Bombardier is about TWICE the length of a Learjet 55. They had no business being assigned this close to each other.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Happy now? Here is the relative sizes of the Blackhawk next to the Bombardier CRJ700 airliner at the same separation. It just makes the problems already listed even worse. The Bombardier is about TWICE the length of a Learjet 55.

View attachment 1076275

Yea, actually using the two airplanes that actually hit each other in the same diagram would be nice. Thanks.

 

[toobfreak]

Yea, actually using the two airplanes that actually hit each other in the same diagram would be nice. Thanks.

THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU PROVIDE IT, "EXPERT"???