BREAKING:Justices uphold Arizona's system for redistricting

[g5000]

There is nothing in my post that suggests a criticism of having an independent commission determine districts. The voters approved it; so be it. It was their choice.

I'm just pointing out the illogic of CC's inane crowing that it's a defeat for the GOP. It's not. It's a defeat for the legislature, whose majority may change in subsequent elections.

The gop brought the suit...

AGAINST the commission.

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

How ironic you talk about rules and conscience in the defense of gerrymandering.

 

[ogibillm]

There is nothing in my post that suggests a criticism of having an independent commission determine districts. The voters approved it; so be it. It was their choice.

I'm just pointing out the illogic of CC's inane crowing that it's a defeat for the GOP. It's not. It's a defeat for the legislature, whose majority may change in subsequent elections.

The gop brought the suit...

AGAINST the commission.

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

Conscience and fair play would have more states employ the process AZ has adopted

 

[martybegan]

The gop brought the suit...

AGAINST the commission.

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

How ironic you talk about rules and conscience in the defense of gerrymandering.

Gerrymandering will continue, now under the control of appointed bureaucrats instead of elected officials, and guess which party most bureaucrats come from?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So now the world "legislature" doesn't mean anything either.

Great.

Why should the politicians be selecting their voters? It's supposed to be the other way around.

 

[martybegan]

The gop brought the suit...

AGAINST the commission.

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

Conscience and fair play would have more states employ the process AZ has adopted

Bullshit. This is nothing more than ceding control of redistricting to another government agency, and since we all know what party is over-represented by bureaucrats, we all know who this benefits.

Plus, racial gerrymandering will still be allowable, and we all know who that benefits as well.

 

[ogibillm]

AGAINST the commission.

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

How ironic you talk about rules and conscience in the defense of gerrymandering.

Gerrymandering will continue, now under the control of appointed bureaucrats instead of elected officials, and guess which party most bureaucrats come from?

You are having a hell of a time understanding "2 republicans, 2 democrats, and an independent"

 

[martybegan]

So now the world "legislature" doesn't mean anything either.

Great.

Why should the politicians be selecting their voters? It's supposed to be the other way around.

So taking a redistricting decision from the whole body of the legislature and giving it to the party leadership in each house is giving it to "the people???"

We similar crap in NY in our legislature, and it sucks.

 

[martybegan]

The GOP as a party didn't bring the suit; thhe Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature did. The germane grouping here is the Arizona Legislature. This is a contest between a government body and an independent commission.

You're right, the republican controlled legislature brought it, and likely only because they thought they could get more republican seats without the commission than with it.

In the future it could have been a democratic legislature bringing the same suit, making the decision more of a loss for partisans

That assumes democrats 1) play by the rules and 2) have a conscience.

How ironic you talk about rules and conscience in the defense of gerrymandering.

Gerrymandering will continue, now under the control of appointed bureaucrats instead of elected officials, and guess which party most bureaucrats come from?

You are having a hell of a time understanding "2 republicans, 2 democrats, and an independent"

From a pre-approved list. and the "independent" is a figment of imagination, much like the right to SSM.

 

[SwimExpert]

I was commenting on what I wish would have happened.

And that is exactly my point. What you wish would have happened would have been a miscarriage of justice. At least as you stated it, you are not merely wishing for the end product, you with a certain mode of delivery had occurred as well. I, for one, am quite glad that that mode of delivery did not happen.

 

[nat4900]

All I know is to change the constitution you need to use the amendment process, not get 5 of 9 un-elected lawyers to agree with you, and THAT is what is happening now.

But you probably were OK when 5 of 9 unelected lawyers gave us 8 years of GWB?

 

[JakeStarkey]

SCOTUS reached the conservative answer.

The voters of AZ told the legislature how, their servants, how they, their bosses, wanted this done.

And problems, guys?

 

[Skylar]

SCOTUS reached the conservative answer.

The voters of AZ told the legislature how, their servants, how they, their bosses, wanted this done.

And problems, guys?

Trivial detail. Hardly worth mentioning.

This is all about feeling. Emotion. And manufactured outrage.

 

[martybegan]

All I know is to change the constitution you need to use the amendment process, not get 5 of 9 un-elected lawyers to agree with you, and THAT is what is happening now.

But you probably were OK when 5 of 9 unelected lawyers gave us 8 years of GWB?

At the time I was actually indifferent to it.

 

[dcraelin]

Uh no, that would have been the greatest example of justice being served I could think of. Districts are put together without any regard to what is best for their constituents

No, it would not have been justice. It is not the law. If the court had taken it upon itself to decree that all states must now use a citizen appointed commission for redistricting, it would have been wholesale discarding rule of law. Redistricting is done in accordance with the law. That you or I don't like the law is not a valid reason for the court to start legislating from the bench. I fully endorse states moving to a redistricting system of independent/citizen committees. In order for that to lawfully happen, the people of the several states much engage in the political process to bring about the necessary state laws legislatively.

the US consittution talks of delegating the legislative power to a congress............

so it is apparent within the Constitution itself that a legislature is just the lawmaking power.

I dont know if thats the reasoning they used...I doubt it....they rarely use reason on this S court.....or any S court.

 

[candycorn]

Great input guys.

 

[JimH52]

I certainly wish it would have stipulated that each state set one up and bar the state legislatures from drawing the lines since they obviously do so only to preserve their own power.

That would have been a disgusting miscarriage of justice of the court had done that.

Uh no, that would have been the greatest example of justice being served I could think of. Districts are put together without any regard to what is best for their constituents:

Here is the NC 12:

Here is the AZ 2nd:

There is no hint of justice ever being considered much less served.

However, it would not have been in the court's purview to do so--set up commissions. I think what you meant was that it would have been a disgusting overstep of judicial power. I could be wrong.

The only reason I brought it up was that the standard "gloom and doom" crap of executive power-grabs.

So the GOP loses Gerrymandering....? Now, the only thing they have left is voter suppression. I guess they will have to double down on that.

 

[g5000]

So the GOP loses Gerrymandering....?

Gerrymandering is hardly exclusive to the GOP!

 

[JimH52]

So the GOP loses Gerrymandering....?

Gerrymandering is hardly exclusive to the GOP!

Perhaps, but with changing demographics, the GOP desperately needs to draw their partisan boundaries.

 

[mamooth]

The California independent committee has 5 from each party and 4 independents, and any new maps have to be approved by a super-majority of three votes from each group. So even if one side rigged the independents, they still couldn't get cheating through. So everybody has to act like grownups and calmly agree upon something that's fair for all sides.

 

[candycorn]

The California independent committee has 5 from each party and 4 independents, and any new maps have to be approved by a super-majority of three votes from each group. So even if one side rigged the independents, they still couldn't get cheating through. So everybody has to act like grownups and calmly agree upon something that's fair for all sides.

Sounds like the optimal plan.