Brain dead Medicaid patients on life support

[MikeK]

My son works for a private health nursing staffing agency staffing nurses for Medicaid patients. One of the things he does is staff nurses to watch totally brain dead folks on respirators. His company bills Medicaid $40 an hour for 84 hours each week to sit and watch these people that have no chance whatsoever of ever living a productive life again. His company bills Medicaid $3360.00 a week for this. He has numerous patients they staff for this.

[...]

Have you brought this to the attention of any local media, or to some national muckraker like Bill O'Reilly?

 

[koshergrl]

Someone has to do it. You are too weak to make the tough, hard decisions in life.
You would leave a poor soul that is brain dead on a damn machine instead of having mercy on them.
You either lead or follow but some like you just stay out of the way because you have no back bone.

No, someone doesn't have to do it.

Don't try doing it to any of my relatives. That would be a really bad mistake.

BTW...the number of people being kept alive by machines is minute. Tiny. Very few people are kept alive on respirators. Let's be honest here. You want to kill everybody who is disabled, right?

LOL, go to south Florida, Fort Myers, Miami, all over and everyone of those ICU wards down there are full of 80+ year old geezers on respirators. I saw it when my Dad died and had to hire an attorney TO HONOR DAD'S WISHES. DAD HAD A DNR ORDER IN PLACE and they still had him on the respirator for 2 days before I could fly down there. Dad had a Right to Die card in his wallet stating "I refuse all life saving techniques and support systems if I am not able to breathe and live on my own"

And the greedy bastard doctors I had to threaten to sue because they would not honor that accused me of "Well, some kids want to pull the plug on their parents."

NO, Dad WANTED THAT and real men do what is right.

All red blooded Americans that are good citizens go by that. Only a weak chump wants to live off of someone else's misery. The strong go when their time has come.

CASH PROFITS FOR THE HOSPITALS

You people are about as naive and gullible as they come.

You are not very smart. We are not talking about disabilities here.
We are talking about irresponsible and immature citizens like you that refuse to make the tough, hard decisions in life and always pass the buck on society.
You are a closet liberal. Your milk is weak.

Riiiight.



I would like to see a photo of these warehouses full of old people on respirators, being kept alive against their will.

 

[MeBelle]

My son works for a private health nursing staffing agency staffing nurses for Medicaid patients. One of the things he does is staff nurses to watch totally brain dead folks on respirators. His company bills Medicaid $40 an hour for 84 hours each week to sit and watch these people that have no chance whatsoever of ever living a productive life again. His company bills Medicaid $3360.00 a week for this. He has numerous patients they staff for this.
Do the math. He states that with the other administrative work that is involved the total cost is $200,000.00 a year in tax payer $$ to keep these people alive.
He states that many parents and family do not want it but that many people just sit and watch their loved ones with no chance of any productive life. The reason they need the care is that these people can not blink their eyes as they have no brain function for this.
Ethically, he believes this is a waste of money even though his company makes a lot of $$ off of it.
I posted it in this section because he states that almost all of the families that demand this Medicaid program are very religous and will not allow their family members to be taken off of life support.
I saw this when my father died. Full ward of 85+ year old patients billing Medicare $5,000 a day in ICU in south Florida hospitals on respirators with no chance of ever doing anything. Everyone of them brain dead.
This has to change. No other country on earth allows this kind of waste.

In the state I live, LTC for a Medicaid pt is a flat fee depending on dx. The payment for acute and sub-acute care is substantially higher, the fee covers everything, not just nursing.

Your OP states Medicaid and Medicare which are two very different programs, paid differently and can vary by state.

 

[koshergrl]

glad to know when to draw the line on life and your money.

I'll draw the line at what I think my loved one's wishes are. That does not include death from sepsis due to ventilator associated pneumonia.

Yes, suffocation is so much better.

 

[MeBelle]

I don't believe you. Hospitals would send patients to hospice, not keep wards full of brain dead people.

They make wards of brain dead people ravi...... they make money off of them.

Hospitals will only keep Medicare patients until the Medicare dollars run out and the pt can be unloaded to a hospice/LTC or SNF.

Facilities cannot bill 'per hour, per nurse, per pt'.
It is the facility that does the billing.
The agency then charges the facility.

Again, every state is different.

And Gadawg was not clear in his OP.

 

[MeBelle]

Medicare and Medicaid are the BIGGEST drivers of the deficit.
Problem is most Americans are either too ignorant to know this or too stupid to admit it.
Georgia has a Medicaid deficit this year of 350 million and it is projected to be 600 million in 2 years.
Many states have billions in Medicaid deficits.
<snipped insult>

Medicaid chronically under pays the entire cost pt care. If Medicaid deems a flat rate of $200 per day for a pt and actual costs above basic care, ie meds, etc exceed the flat rate, the facility eats the cost.
In order for a facility to break even on Medicaid, the facility needs to have several Medicaid pts, generally staffed by a Unit/Charge RN, maybe two LVNs, several CNAs.


One of the reasons states have Medicaid deficits is because states cut the hell out of their Medicaid budget. Another reason for these deficits has to do with undocumented pts, which by law, MUST be cared for.

Even a PCP can only absorb a certain amount of Medicaid pts.
You will be seeing more and more docs refusing to accept Medicaid pts.

/done

 

[Douger]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg]3-25-2010_Hank_Johnson_Guam_Tip_Over.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ravi]

Someone has to do it. You are too weak to make the tough, hard decisions in life.
You would leave a poor soul that is brain dead on a damn machine instead of having mercy on them.
You either lead or follow but some like you just stay out of the way because you have no back bone.

No, someone doesn't have to do it.

Don't try doing it to any of my relatives. That would be a really bad mistake.

BTW...the number of people being kept alive by machines is minute. Tiny. Very few people are kept alive on respirators. Let's be honest here. You want to kill everybody who is disabled, right?

LOL, go to south Florida, Fort Myers, Miami, all over and everyone of those ICU wards down there are full of 80+ year old geezers on respirators. I saw it when my Dad died and had to hire an attorney TO HONOR DAD'S WISHES. DAD HAD A DNR ORDER IN PLACE and they still had him on the respirator for 2 days before I could fly down there. Dad had a Right to Die card in his wallet stating "I refuse all life saving techniques and support systems if I am not able to breathe and live on my own"

And the greedy bastard doctors I had to threaten to sue because they would not honor that accused me of "Well, some kids want to pull the plug on their parents."

NO, Dad WANTED THAT and real men do what is right.

All red blooded Americans that are good citizens go by that. Only a weak chump wants to live off of someone else's misery. The strong go when their time has come.

CASH PROFITS FOR THE HOSPITALS

You people are about as naive and gullible as they come.

You are not very smart. We are not talking about disabilities here.
We are talking about irresponsible and immature citizens like you that refuse to make the tough, hard decisions in life and always pass the buck on society.
You are a closet liberal. Your milk is weak.

I imagine you merely had to sign a new DNR as the one he had signed allowed for the respirator.

You're a liar or a fool, not sure which. Florida hospitals are not full of brain dead old people.

Last year the rightwing nutcases had a melt down over a provision in the health care bill that allowed for insurance to pay for doctors discussing these choices with their patients. But no, that was a death panel.

You people are fools.

 

[strollingbones]

I don't believe you. Hospitals would send patients to hospice, not keep wards full of brain dead people.

hospice is not mandatory.....you can refuse it...

for those of you with a living will..that dies the minute you are unaware ...what happens is in the hands of the next of kin...so make sure they are really gonna follow it....

dont be vague in the wording of anything...define it all....

 

[strollingbones]

what is billed to medicaid and what is received are two entirely different things....

 

[Moonglow]

but again I would give everything i owned to save a family member. They mean more to me than material possessions. Instead of aborting every child I sowed i lived in poverty, worked three jobs and took care of my kids, damn you people that love your money.
Let me know when you die so I can shove it up your ass and you can take it with you on your way to hell.

 

[strollingbones]

wow moon....that is kinda harsh....

for me..it has nothing to do with money but i am fortunate my mother had a long term care policy...but its only enough for a year or more longer with the increases of late...due to her being placed in a lock down unit....

 

[strollingbones]

and my mom's living will....remember that pesky thing...says in the 'later stages of dementia" to with hold all medications....and no feeding tube...

no one realizes the challenges of dealing with someone with dementia till they do it.....and its something i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy....

 

[Ravi]

You still need to have a DNR, Bones.

 

[jillian]

but again I would give everything i owned to save a family member. They mean more to me than material possessions. Instead of aborting every child I sowed i lived in poverty, worked three jobs and took care of my kids, damn you people that love your money.
Let me know when you die so I can shove it up your ass and you can take it with you on your way to hell.

what if someone said maybe you shouldn't have gotten knocked up in the first place?

and whatever choices you made... it's none of your business what choices others make.

i love when people forget that whole "judge not" thing

 

[Ravi]

No, someone doesn't have to do it.

Don't try doing it to any of my relatives. That would be a really bad mistake.

BTW...the number of people being kept alive by machines is minute. Tiny. Very few people are kept alive on respirators. Let's be honest here. You want to kill everybody who is disabled, right?

LOL, go to south Florida, Fort Myers, Miami, all over and everyone of those ICU wards down there are full of 80+ year old geezers on respirators. I saw it when my Dad died and had to hire an attorney TO HONOR DAD'S WISHES. DAD HAD A DNR ORDER IN PLACE and they still had him on the respirator for 2 days before I could fly down there. Dad had a Right to Die card in his wallet stating "I refuse all life saving techniques and support systems if I am not able to breathe and live on my own"

And the greedy bastard doctors I had to threaten to sue because they would not honor that accused me of "Well, some kids want to pull the plug on their parents."

NO, Dad WANTED THAT and real men do what is right.

All red blooded Americans that are good citizens go by that. Only a weak chump wants to live off of someone else's misery. The strong go when their time has come.

CASH PROFITS FOR THE HOSPITALS

You people are about as naive and gullible as they come.

You are not very smart. We are not talking about disabilities here.
We are talking about irresponsible and immature citizens like you that refuse to make the tough, hard decisions in life and always pass the buck on society.
You are a closet liberal. Your milk is weak.

I imagine you merely had to sign a new DNR as the one he had signed allowed for the respirator.

You're a liar or a fool, not sure which. Florida hospitals are not full of brain dead old people.

Last year the rightwing nutcases had a melt down over a provision in the health care bill that allowed for insurance to pay for doctors discussing these choices with their patients. But no, that was a death panel.

You people are fools.

Not to mention that you have to actually give the DNR to the hospital staff, not merely have it in your wallet.

 

[strollingbones]

You still need to have a DNR, Bones.

last july when i opted for the conservative treatment for her heart condition....they said i had to do a dnr....done and in place.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Given the whole Terry Schaivo debacle it's not surprising that this has happened. This what the "right to life" looks like when taken to it's most extreme level.

 

[koshergrl]

No, someone doesn't have to do it.

Don't try doing it to any of my relatives. That would be a really bad mistake.

BTW...the number of people being kept alive by machines is minute. Tiny. Very few people are kept alive on respirators. Let's be honest here. You want to kill everybody who is disabled, right?

LOL, go to south Florida, Fort Myers, Miami, all over and everyone of those ICU wards down there are full of 80+ year old geezers on respirators. I saw it when my Dad died and had to hire an attorney TO HONOR DAD'S WISHES. DAD HAD A DNR ORDER IN PLACE and they still had him on the respirator for 2 days before I could fly down there. Dad had a Right to Die card in his wallet stating "I refuse all life saving techniques and support systems if I am not able to breathe and live on my own"

And the greedy bastard doctors I had to threaten to sue because they would not honor that accused me of "Well, some kids want to pull the plug on their parents."

NO, Dad WANTED THAT and real men do what is right.

All red blooded Americans that are good citizens go by that. Only a weak chump wants to live off of someone else's misery. The strong go when their time has come.

CASH PROFITS FOR THE HOSPITALS

You people are about as naive and gullible as they come.

You are not very smart. We are not talking about disabilities here.
We are talking about irresponsible and immature citizens like you that refuse to make the tough, hard decisions in life and always pass the buck on society.
You are a closet liberal. Your milk is weak.

I imagine you merely had to sign a new DNR as the one he had signed allowed for the respirator.

You're a liar or a fool, not sure which. Florida hospitals are not full of brain dead old people.

Last year the rightwing nutcases had a melt down over a provision in the health care bill that allowed for insurance to pay for doctors discussing these choices with their patients. But no, that was a death panel.

You people are fools.

We had a meltdown over doctors advising their elderly, disabled patients that it was time to let their families off the hook and die already.

Little different.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I think people can choose whether they want to be given a feeding tube or stay intubated, don't you?

Isn't dying naturally allowed anymore?

My cousin, a "Feminist for Life" anti-abortion, pro-life fanatic, had a feeding tube installed in her mother, (my aunt, my foster mother), when my aunt stopped eating and wanted to die after a massive stroke.

My aunt lived another eight years, in bed, unable to talk, lying in her own waste.

This is what I have a problem with, with the right to life folks.

Now, to look at the whole thing karmically. My aunt was a very abusive parent to me. I think she purified a lot of karma through the suffering of her last eight years.