BP: Okay? Now what?

Big Fitz

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I listen to the news and keep thinking the econazis are just dogs chasing cars. They wanna catch one, but once they do, they've no idea what to do with it.

So, civil and criminal investigations have begun against BP. What do you hope to achieve? Put them out of business? Lock up the board of directors? Round up all the investors and send them all to a prison or something for daring to invest in an inherently evil company?

What do you think the consequences of your actions are going to be if you shut BP down? How is that good for you, your family, your locality, your state, your nation, the whole world? BP is a leading producer of petroleum and in that helps keep modern society moving. If they did not contribute their part, what good will come of it?

Do you foresee any problems with your 'solution' to BP? Any unintended consequences perchance? What will happen when production drops?

What then dawg? What will you do when you catch one-a-them cars?:confused:
 
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Big Fitz

Big Fitz

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Apparently the crickets have more to say than the dogs.
 

American Horse

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Apparently the crickets have more to say than the dogs.
This is Obama's concept of leadership. He thinks that beating up on them, maybe destroying BP as an operating company is what leadership is all about. Their own people failed at regulating BP and this is just a cover-up of that failure.
 

dilloduck

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consequences of destroying BP ? How dare you think this one through ? :lol:
 
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Big Fitz

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Apparently the crickets have more to say than the dogs.
This is Obama's concept of leadership. He thinks that beating up on them, maybe destroying BP as an operating company is what leadership is all about. Their own people failed at regulating BP and this is just a cover-up of that failure.
yep. It's the progressive playbook chapter 5: Distracting by beating down capitalism.

Make people feel better who don't like their lot in life because they are gonna "Get Them!" for the poor and downtrodden. They ignore the fact that this act often will leave the poor in a worse position than when they started, but dammit, they're seeing someone get taken down a peg... now why's my food cost more? Stoopid greedy ag corps! Get them next!

In a world filled with blind men, the one eyed man is king.
 
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Big Fitz

Big Fitz

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Apparently the crickets have more to say than the dogs.
This is Obama's concept of leadership. He thinks that beating up on them, maybe destroying BP as an operating company is what leadership is all about. Their own people failed at regulating BP and this is just a cover-up of that failure.
yep. It's the progressive playbook chapter 5: Distracting by beating down capitalism.

Make people feel better who don't like their lot in life because they are gonna "Get Them!" for the poor and downtrodden. They ignore the fact that this act often will leave the poor in a worse position than when they started, but dammit, they're seeing someone get taken down a peg... now why's my food cost more? Stoopid greedy ag corps! Get them next!

In a world filled with blind men, the one eyed man is king.
 

Samson

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This is a great thread: Unfortunately, the issue doesn't offer a catfight, or waving a bloody shirt, and there are few empty platitudes that can be conjured up as "solutions" by an Administration that is unqualified to do much else.

Anyway, I see 7 or 8 questions in the OP; I'll look into my crystal ball:

1. Bureaucrats will grow government (DOI, EPA, DOE) to make it more effective
2. The production of shale oils, sand oils, and the Bakken Formation will become much more attractive.
3. In about 10 years, everyone will have forgotten about the Transocean Rig Disaster
4. Americans will pay more for refined oil products
5. As oil prices rise, drilling in the gulf will recommence
 

Old Rocks

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OK. We have a catastrophe that dwarfs anything that has happened to this nation before. The company that created this catastrophe has already been shown, through their own documents to have been incredibly negligent in their drilling operation. So we say, "Too bad, accidents happen?"

Like hell. Yes, if that is what it takes to wake up these criminals, put the execs involved in hard time, and seize the totallity of the assets of the American arm of BP. We are going to pay out far more than that to alleviate the damage that has been done, and is still to occur. Then put a tax on all oil, say start at $5 a barrel, until the damage is payed for.

Of course the idea that corperations should be held accountable is an anthema to any good Conservative. Kind of like paying taxes, that is only for little people.
 

Lumpy 1

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OK. We have a catastrophe that dwarfs anything that has happened to this nation before. The company that created this catastrophe has already been shown, through their own documents to have been incredibly negligent in their drilling operation. So we say, "Too bad, accidents happen?"

Like hell. Yes, if that is what it takes to wake up these criminals, put the execs involved in hard time, and seize the totallity of the assets of the American arm of BP. We are going to pay out far more than that to alleviate the damage that has been done, and is still to occur. Then put a tax on all oil, say start at $5 a barrel, until the damage is payed for.

Of course the idea that corperations should be held accountable is an anthema to any good Conservative. Kind of like paying taxes, that is only for little people.
You make it sound like BP wanted this to happen.

The Obama administration hands BP awards a while back and now he's desperate to hand them all the blame, while boldly accepting the blame....:lol:

Damn..

All Obama needs is clown make-up and a costume to complete this juggling act...:razz:
 
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Care4all

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BP has done this to themselves and to the gulf and gulf states.

they need to make certain their money is used to clean up their mess, that's the bottom line with me....I don't care if the Bush admin MMS workers were bought off or not by BP, because BP should also be at fault for offering the incentives or bribes to those workers to look the other way....or those congressmen to loosen gvt regulation.
 

Zoom-boing

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If Holder and Co are going to go after those responsible, does that also include the government? Seems to me blame lies with both BP and uncle.

Regulators overseeing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico reportedly allowed oil company officials to fill in their own inspection reports. According to the internal probe being released this week, oil officials sketched out their answers in pencil and turned them over to federal oversight officials, who then traced their answers in pen.

And as if that wasn't enough, a Louisiana inspector from the Minerals Management Service purportedly admitted to investigators that he'd used crystal methamphetamine, and may have been high on the illegal stimulant during a drilling inspection.

The Inspector General's report was previewed Tuesday in the New York Times. The report is sure to set off a bombshell in Washington, where Congress is probing how a massive and still-growing oil leak was allowed to happen in the Gulf of Mexico. None of the reports findings directly address the lead-up to the spill from the sinking of Transocean's Deepwater Horizon rig in April, but they certainly draw a picture of a watchdog asleep -- or high -- at the wheel.

The report also found that during the tenure of President George W. Bush, from 2005 to 2007, "inspectors accepted meals, tickets to sporting events and gifts from at least one oil company while they were overseeing the industry," the Times said.
Story continues below...

The paper added that "the investigation had been presented to the United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Louisiana, which declined prosecution."

The official probe is said to have relied on confidential sources who tattle-taled on the troubled agency.

They "provided additional information pertaining to M.M.S. employees at the Lake Charles District Office, including acceptance of a trip to the 2005 Peach Bowl game that was paid for by an oil and gas company; illicit drug use; misuse of government computers; and inspection report falsification."

The latest inquiry into the Minerals Management Service is not the first hard-hitting report to reveal mismanagement by the agency. MMS is charged with overseeing the nation's oil resources and with collecting royalties from oil production firms. Critics of the agency have said that this dual role often puts the watchdog at a conflict of interest with its purpose of protecting taxpayers.

A 2008 probe found similarly troubling behavior by MMS workers. Citing what he called a "culture of substance abuse and promiscuity" by workers, the Interior's Department's inspector general found that employees had sex with and took drugs with energy company representatives. Workers also reportedly enjoyed gifts, ski trips and golf outings paid for by oil giants.

In recent weeks, the Obama administration has proposed to split up the MMS into separate watchdog and royalties collection units.

Noted the AP earlier this month: "One agency would be charged with inspecting oil rigs, investigating oil companies and enforcing safety regulations, while the other would oversee leases for drilling and collection of billions of dollars in royalties.

"Currently, the Minerals Management Service, an arm of the Interior Department, is responsible for collecting more than $10 billion a year from oil and gas drilling and with enforcing laws and regulations that apply to drilling operations."
Oil inspectors let companies fill in own audits, while one admitted getting high on meth, report says | Raw Story

The federal agency responsible for ensuring that an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico was operating safely before it exploded last month fell well short of its own policy that inspections be done at least once per month, an Associated Press investigation shows.

Since January 2005, the federal Minerals Management Service conducted at least 16 fewer inspections aboard the Deepwater Horizon than it should have under the policy, a dramatic fall from the frequency of prior years, according to the agency's records.

Under a revised statement given to the AP on Sunday, MMS officials said the last infraction aboard the rig, which blew up April 20, killing 11 and spewing millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, occurred in August 2003, not March 2007 as originally stated.

The inspection gaps and poor recordkeeping are the latest in a series of questions raised about the agency's oversight of the offshore oil drilling industry. Members of Congress and President Barack Obama have criticized what they call the cozy relationship between regulators and oil companies and have vowed to reform MMS, which both regulates the industry and collects billions in royalties from it.

Earlier AP investigations have shown that the doomed rig was allowed to operate without safety documentation required by MMS regulations for the exact disaster scenario that occurred; that the cutoff valve which failed has repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since regulators weakened testing requirements; and that regulation is so lax that some key safety aspects on rigs are decided almost entirely by the companies doing the work.

The AP sought to find out how many times government safety inspectors visited the Deepwater Horizon, and what they found. In response, MMS officials offered a changing series of numbers.
AP IMPACT: Fed'l Inspections on Rig Not as Claimed - ABC News
 

editec

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I listen to the news and keep thinking the econazis are just dogs chasing cars. They wanna catch one, but once they do, they've no idea what to do with it.

So, civil and criminal investigations have begun against BP. What do you hope to achieve? Put them out of business? Lock up the board of directors? Round up all the investors and send them all to a prison or something for daring to invest in an inherently evil company?

What do you think the consequences of your actions are going to be if you shut BP down? How is that good for you, your family, your locality, your state, your nation, the whole world? BP is a leading producer of petroleum and in that helps keep modern society moving. If they did not contribute their part, what good will come of it?

Do you foresee any problems with your 'solution' to BP? Any unintended consequences perchance? What will happen when production drops?

What then dawg? What will you do when you catch one-a-them cars?:confused:
I'm much more interested in seeing to it that BP pays for damages than some criminal charges are made.

I doubt anybody did anything illegal, to be honest.

STupid to the extreme? Yes! Criminal? probably not.

And if the damages are correctly assessed, what we will discover is that the total worth of BP doesn't even begin to match the cost of the damages they have caused.

In a truly just world, BP would be put down by way of civil suits for damages.
 

Care4all

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If Holder and Co are going to go after those responsible, does that also include the government? Seems to me blame lies with both BP and uncle.

Regulators overseeing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico reportedly allowed oil company officials to fill in their own inspection reports. According to the internal probe being released this week, oil officials sketched out their answers in pencil and turned them over to federal oversight officials, who then traced their answers in pen.

And as if that wasn't enough, a Louisiana inspector from the Minerals Management Service purportedly admitted to investigators that he'd used crystal methamphetamine, and may have been high on the illegal stimulant during a drilling inspection.

The Inspector General's report was previewed Tuesday in the New York Times. The report is sure to set off a bombshell in Washington, where Congress is probing how a massive and still-growing oil leak was allowed to happen in the Gulf of Mexico. None of the reports findings directly address the lead-up to the spill from the sinking of Transocean's Deepwater Horizon rig in April, but they certainly draw a picture of a watchdog asleep -- or high -- at the wheel.

The report also found that during the tenure of President George W. Bush, from 2005 to 2007, "inspectors accepted meals, tickets to sporting events and gifts from at least one oil company while they were overseeing the industry," the Times said.
Story continues below...

The paper added that "the investigation had been presented to the United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Louisiana, which declined prosecution."

The official probe is said to have relied on confidential sources who tattle-taled on the troubled agency.

They "provided additional information pertaining to M.M.S. employees at the Lake Charles District Office, including acceptance of a trip to the 2005 Peach Bowl game that was paid for by an oil and gas company; illicit drug use; misuse of government computers; and inspection report falsification."

The latest inquiry into the Minerals Management Service is not the first hard-hitting report to reveal mismanagement by the agency. MMS is charged with overseeing the nation's oil resources and with collecting royalties from oil production firms. Critics of the agency have said that this dual role often puts the watchdog at a conflict of interest with its purpose of protecting taxpayers.

A 2008 probe found similarly troubling behavior by MMS workers. Citing what he called a "culture of substance abuse and promiscuity" by workers, the Interior's Department's inspector general found that employees had sex with and took drugs with energy company representatives. Workers also reportedly enjoyed gifts, ski trips and golf outings paid for by oil giants.

In recent weeks, the Obama administration has proposed to split up the MMS into separate watchdog and royalties collection units.

Noted the AP earlier this month: "One agency would be charged with inspecting oil rigs, investigating oil companies and enforcing safety regulations, while the other would oversee leases for drilling and collection of billions of dollars in royalties.

"Currently, the Minerals Management Service, an arm of the Interior Department, is responsible for collecting more than $10 billion a year from oil and gas drilling and with enforcing laws and regulations that apply to drilling operations."
Oil inspectors let companies fill in own audits, while one admitted getting high on meth, report says | Raw Story

The federal agency responsible for ensuring that an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico was operating safely before it exploded last month fell well short of its own policy that inspections be done at least once per month, an Associated Press investigation shows.

Since January 2005, the federal Minerals Management Service conducted at least 16 fewer inspections aboard the Deepwater Horizon than it should have under the policy, a dramatic fall from the frequency of prior years, according to the agency's records.

Under a revised statement given to the AP on Sunday, MMS officials said the last infraction aboard the rig, which blew up April 20, killing 11 and spewing millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, occurred in August 2003, not March 2007 as originally stated.

The inspection gaps and poor recordkeeping are the latest in a series of questions raised about the agency's oversight of the offshore oil drilling industry. Members of Congress and President Barack Obama have criticized what they call the cozy relationship between regulators and oil companies and have vowed to reform MMS, which both regulates the industry and collects billions in royalties from it.

Earlier AP investigations have shown that the doomed rig was allowed to operate without safety documentation required by MMS regulations for the exact disaster scenario that occurred; that the cutoff valve which failed has repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since regulators weakened testing requirements; and that regulation is so lax that some key safety aspects on rigs are decided almost entirely by the companies doing the work.

The AP sought to find out how many times government safety inspectors visited the Deepwater Horizon, and what they found. In response, MMS officials offered a changing series of numbers.
AP IMPACT: Fed'l Inspections on Rig Not as Claimed - ABC News
Separate cases....

the MMS employees should be brought up on bribery charges, with BP or whoever it was, as the briber.

BP and their partners, CAUSED this mess, and they should PAY for this mess....I could care less if criminal charges are brought up against them, unless of course, they also did break the law...then of course, I would EXPECT charges against them, for what THEY did wrong/criminal.
 

Zoom-boing

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If Holder and Co are going to go after those responsible, does that also include the government? Seems to me blame lies with both BP and uncle.

Regulators overseeing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico reportedly allowed oil company officials to fill in their own inspection reports. According to the internal probe being released this week, oil officials sketched out their answers in pencil and turned them over to federal oversight officials, who then traced their answers in pen.

And as if that wasn't enough, a Louisiana inspector from the Minerals Management Service purportedly admitted to investigators that he'd used crystal methamphetamine, and may have been high on the illegal stimulant during a drilling inspection.

The Inspector General's report was previewed Tuesday in the New York Times. The report is sure to set off a bombshell in Washington, where Congress is probing how a massive and still-growing oil leak was allowed to happen in the Gulf of Mexico. None of the reports findings directly address the lead-up to the spill from the sinking of Transocean's Deepwater Horizon rig in April, but they certainly draw a picture of a watchdog asleep -- or high -- at the wheel.

The report also found that during the tenure of President George W. Bush, from 2005 to 2007, "inspectors accepted meals, tickets to sporting events and gifts from at least one oil company while they were overseeing the industry," the Times said.
Story continues below...

The paper added that "the investigation had been presented to the United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Louisiana, which declined prosecution."

The official probe is said to have relied on confidential sources who tattle-taled on the troubled agency.

They "provided additional information pertaining to M.M.S. employees at the Lake Charles District Office, including acceptance of a trip to the 2005 Peach Bowl game that was paid for by an oil and gas company; illicit drug use; misuse of government computers; and inspection report falsification."

The latest inquiry into the Minerals Management Service is not the first hard-hitting report to reveal mismanagement by the agency. MMS is charged with overseeing the nation's oil resources and with collecting royalties from oil production firms. Critics of the agency have said that this dual role often puts the watchdog at a conflict of interest with its purpose of protecting taxpayers.

A 2008 probe found similarly troubling behavior by MMS workers. Citing what he called a "culture of substance abuse and promiscuity" by workers, the Interior's Department's inspector general found that employees had sex with and took drugs with energy company representatives. Workers also reportedly enjoyed gifts, ski trips and golf outings paid for by oil giants.

In recent weeks, the Obama administration has proposed to split up the MMS into separate watchdog and royalties collection units.

Noted the AP earlier this month: "One agency would be charged with inspecting oil rigs, investigating oil companies and enforcing safety regulations, while the other would oversee leases for drilling and collection of billions of dollars in royalties.

"Currently, the Minerals Management Service, an arm of the Interior Department, is responsible for collecting more than $10 billion a year from oil and gas drilling and with enforcing laws and regulations that apply to drilling operations."
Oil inspectors let companies fill in own audits, while one admitted getting high on meth, report says | Raw Story

The federal agency responsible for ensuring that an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico was operating safely before it exploded last month fell well short of its own policy that inspections be done at least once per month, an Associated Press investigation shows.

Since January 2005, the federal Minerals Management Service conducted at least 16 fewer inspections aboard the Deepwater Horizon than it should have under the policy, a dramatic fall from the frequency of prior years, according to the agency's records.

Under a revised statement given to the AP on Sunday, MMS officials said the last infraction aboard the rig, which blew up April 20, killing 11 and spewing millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, occurred in August 2003, not March 2007 as originally stated.

The inspection gaps and poor recordkeeping are the latest in a series of questions raised about the agency's oversight of the offshore oil drilling industry. Members of Congress and President Barack Obama have criticized what they call the cozy relationship between regulators and oil companies and have vowed to reform MMS, which both regulates the industry and collects billions in royalties from it.

Earlier AP investigations have shown that the doomed rig was allowed to operate without safety documentation required by MMS regulations for the exact disaster scenario that occurred; that the cutoff valve which failed has repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since regulators weakened testing requirements; and that regulation is so lax that some key safety aspects on rigs are decided almost entirely by the companies doing the work.

The AP sought to find out how many times government safety inspectors visited the Deepwater Horizon, and what they found. In response, MMS officials offered a changing series of numbers.
AP IMPACT: Fed'l Inspections on Rig Not as Claimed - ABC News
Separate cases....

the MMS employees should be brought up on bribery charges, with BP or whoever it was, as the briber.

BP and their partners, CAUSED this mess, and they should PAY for this mess....I could care less if criminal charges are brought up against them, unless of course, they also did break the law...then of course, I would EXPECT charges against them, for what THEY did wrong/criminal.
Not disagreeing with you Care, just pointing out that, imo, both BP and MMS (gov) are at fault. . . . . BP more so.
 
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Samson

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Not disagreeing with you Care, just pointing out that, imo, both BP and MMS (gov) are at fault. . . . . BP more so.
Naive.

BP will be glad to accept the blame, and pay for the cleanup. They will raise prices to pay.

The rest of the industry will happily follow BP's prices increases.

DOI and MMS and the Administration will claim that if they'd been better funded, they could have prevented the disaster. They will demand larger budgets.

Americans will pay more for energy and for ineffective government.


But Care4all will blissfully continue to pay higher taxes, confident that BP has been "punished" and DOI is "better managed."
 

Zoom-boing

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Not disagreeing with you Care, just pointing out that, imo, both BP and MMS (gov) are at fault. . . . . BP more so.
Naive.

BP will be glad to accept the blame, and pay for the cleanup. They will raise prices to pay.

The rest of the industry will happily follow BP's prices increases.

DOI and MMS and the Administration will claim that if they'd been better funded, they could have prevented the disaster. They will demand larger budgets.

Americans will pay more for energy and for ineffective government.


But Care4all will blissfully continue to pay higher taxes, confident that BP has been "punished" and DOI is "better managed."
Do you not think BP should be held accountable? According to the congressional memo there were several warning signs that things were amiss, yet BP continued anyway.

Oil giant BP PLC told congressional investigators that a decision to continue work on an oil well in the Gulf of Mexico after a test warned that something was wrong may have been a "fundamental mistake," according to a memo released by two lawmakers Tuesday.

The document describes a wide array of mistakes in the fateful final hours aboard the Deepwater Horizon—but the main revelation is that BP now says there was a clear warning sign of a "very large abnormality" in the well, but work proceeded anyway.

The rig exploded about two hours later.
BP Cites Crucial 'Mistake' - WSJ.com
 

Samson

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Not disagreeing with you Care, just pointing out that, imo, both BP and MMS (gov) are at fault. . . . . BP more so.
Naive.

BP will be glad to accept the blame, and pay for the cleanup. They will raise prices to pay.

The rest of the industry will happily follow BP's prices increases.

DOI and MMS and the Administration will claim that if they'd been better funded, they could have prevented the disaster. They will demand larger budgets.

Americans will pay more for energy and for ineffective government.


But Care4all will blissfully continue to pay higher taxes, confident that BP has been "punished" and DOI is "better managed."
Do you not think BP should be held accountable? According to the congressional memo there were several warning signs that things were amiss, yet BP continued anyway.
Sure, they'll be "held accountable."

So what?

My guess is that between themselves and the administration, they'll figure out a way to appear to accept more blame in exchange for guilty regulators (Dept of Interior) agreeing to the necessity to raise prices for BP's products and services to pay for the cleanup (Dept of Justice, Commerce, etc).
 
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Big Fitz

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OK. We have a catastrophe that dwarfs anything that has happened to this nation before. The company that created this catastrophe has already been shown, through their own documents to have been incredibly negligent in their drilling operation. So we say, "Too bad, accidents happen?"

Like hell. Yes, if that is what it takes to wake up these criminals, put the execs involved in hard time, and seize the totallity of the assets of the American arm of BP. We are going to pay out far more than that to alleviate the damage that has been done, and is still to occur. Then put a tax on all oil, say start at $5 a barrel, until the damage is payed for.

Of course the idea that corperations should be held accountable is an anthema to any good Conservative. Kind of like paying taxes, that is only for little people.
Oh good. Thanks for giving me an answer of what you want to do when you catch that car: destroy BP, and everyone associated with it.

NOW what? You will effectively destroy a large part of the gulf economy causing localized waves of major unemployment, worldwide oil production will decrease spiking prices and making everything that uses oil more expensive.

Who does this help?
Can you prove malice, or actual desire to cause such a disaster?
Is this really criminal or just a collossal fuckup?
Are you willing to imprison government workers as well in your angry mob justice you seem to desire?
Assuming you get your way, how does this make your life, or anyone else's life better?

You are such a reactionary, you don't think beyond the instant stimulus of envy and hate. They have more than me? Kill it! They did something I don't like? Torture them! I think what they're doing is evil? Imprison them and take away everything they have for... for... who?

Think beyond the first step of anger and revenge. Look at the consequences of your actions. That is the point of this thread.

What next?
 

Big Black Dog

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Owe Bama has czars for everything else, so where is his Oil Czar and what does he have to say about this shit sandwich? Is he standing in line like the rest of the Owe Bama elite with a big stick to beat on BP? This leak needs to get stopped. There will be plenty of time afterwards to point the blame at whoever. In the meantime, Owe Bama can flex his muscles, rant and rave, and do all the other photo op things to make people think the government can actually do something about stopping this leak. Sad to say, but this is one thing the government can't do shit about except beat their gums. I suspect that BP is doing all it can to stop this oil leak and make the bad press go away. It isn't an easy problem to solve and boycotts, protesting BP, yelling and screaming about how bad we are screwing up the environment, and all the other chin music things won't do a thing to solve this problem. It's a bad situation that we need to come together to solve and not simply point fingers and lay down the blame. That isn't going to solve a thing.
 

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