Boycott Israel

[P F Tinmore]

• They believe Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. Making it impossible for a two-State solution.

The territory defined by their international borders.

Isn't that the meaning of the right to territorial integrity?

No, the right to territorial integrity does NOT mean that territorial units are indivisible.

Well then what does it mean?

This is going to be good.

 

[Shusha]

• They believe Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. Making it impossible for a two-State solution.

The territory defined by their international borders.

Isn't that the meaning of the right to territorial integrity?

No, the right to territorial integrity does NOT mean that territorial units are indivisible.

Well then what does it mean?

This is going to be good.

Did Yugoslavia have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Did the USSR have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Did the Ottoman Empire have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Ireland. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Korea. Czechoslovakia. Sudan. Congo. All divided.

Canada. Spain. Iraq. USA. UK. China. All with active, past or present, divisions.

There are dozens of territories with integrity which were ultimately divided. Your claim is ridiculous.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• They believe Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. Making it impossible for a two-State solution.

The territory defined by their international borders.

Isn't that the meaning of the right to territorial integrity?

No, the right to territorial integrity does NOT mean that territorial units are indivisible.

Well then what does it mean?

This is going to be good.

Did Yugoslavia have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Did the USSR have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Did the Ottoman Empire have the right to territorial integrity? That State was divided.

Ireland. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Korea. Czechoslovakia. Sudan. Congo. All divided.

Canada. Spain. Iraq. USA. UK. China. All with active, past or present, divisions.

There are dozens of territories with integrity which were ultimately divided. Your claim is ridiculous.

How many of those were divided to make room for colonial settlers?

Nice deflection though.

 

[Shusha]

How many of those were divided to make room for colonial settlers?

Nice deflection though.

You were making the claim that territorial integrity means that a territory is indivisible. You are clearly wrong.

The Jewish people, and you've admitted this yourself, have been in the territory for thousands of years. They are the indigenous peoples with a long history there. Absolutely undeniable.

 

[abi]

The Jewish people, and you've admitted this yourself, have been in the territory for thousands of years. They are the indigenous peoples with a long history there. Absolutely undeniable.

Out of curiosity, do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish people, and you've admitted this yourself, have been in the territory for thousands of years. They are the indigenous peoples with a long history there. Absolutely undeniable.

Out of curiosity, do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

There was a lot of immigration to that land in the last century, by both Jews and Arabs. It would be foolish to deny that.

Out of curiosity, do you admit that the Jewish people have a 3000 year history in that land?

 

[abi]

There was a lot of immigration to that land in the last century, by both Jews and Arabs. It would be foolish to deny that.

Let me pin you down on this one first. You kind of sidestepped the question and maybe missed the point. Do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

 

[Shusha]

There was a lot of immigration to that land in the last century, by both Jews and Arabs. It would be foolish to deny that.

Let me pin you down on this one first. You kind of sidestepped the question and maybe missed the point. Do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

Sigh. It is foolish to deny the obvious truth. Israel, Judea and Samaria was forcibly emptied of many of its Jews several thousand years ago. Many of them returned. Yes, in the last century.

You are trying to point out that Jews are foreigners because they only returned in the last century. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The Jewish people, collectively, as a whole, where ever they happen to take up residence in the world today, are ALL from Israel, Judea and Samaria. They are the indigenous peoples there. That is their ancestral, religious, and historical homeland.

 

[abi]

There was a lot of immigration to that land in the last century, by both Jews and Arabs. It would be foolish to deny that.

Let me pin you down on this one first. You kind of sidestepped the question and maybe missed the point. Do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

Sigh. It is foolish to deny the obvious truth. Israel, Judea and Samaria was forcibly emptied of many of its Jews several thousand years ago. Many of them returned. Yes, in the last century.

You are trying to point out that Jews are foreigners because they only returned in the last century. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The Jewish people, collectively, as a whole, where ever they happen to take up residence in the world today, are ALL from Israel, Judea and Samaria. They are the indigenous peoples there. That is their ancestral, religious, and historical homeland.

Refuses to answer... noted.

 

[Shusha]

There was a lot of immigration to that land in the last century, by both Jews and Arabs. It would be foolish to deny that.

Let me pin you down on this one first. You kind of sidestepped the question and maybe missed the point. Do you admit that the vast majority of Jews in Israel today came to that land from just the last century?

Sigh. It is foolish to deny the obvious truth. Israel, Judea and Samaria was forcibly emptied of many of its Jews several thousand years ago. Many of them returned. Yes, in the last century.

You are trying to point out that Jews are foreigners because they only returned in the last century. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The Jewish people, collectively, as a whole, where ever they happen to take up residence in the world today, are ALL from Israel, Judea and Samaria. They are the indigenous peoples there. That is their ancestral, religious, and historical homeland.

Refuses to answer... noted.

Awww. Because I didn't use the words "vast majority", you think I avoided answering. Cute. Would it make you feel better it I used those words?

The vast majority of Jewish people currently living in Israel, Judea and Samaria returned to their indigenous and historical homeland in the last century. Better?

 

[Sixties Fan]

She responded. You did not like the answer. You do not seem to know what was going on in the area, and why Jews or Arabs were immigrating there at all.

Can one say that the vast majority of Arabs, lets say 90%, were already living in Palestine in 1850? Or 1890? Or 1920?

The Ottomans and the British kept a good record of the population which was there, and the population which immigrated to Palestine, except after 1929, they seemed to not keep track of all the Arabs who immigrated to the Mandate illegally.

So, what does it matter how many Jews returned to their ancestral ancient homeland, and how many Arabs who had never been to Palestine, and had mainly come from Arabia and other areas like North Africa, Europe, Syria, etc ended being in Palestine by 1948 when Israel declared Independence?

It did not matter for the partitions offered. And it did not matter for the partitions rejected.
And it has nothing to do with sitting down in 2000 and 2008 and negotiating for a Peace treaty.

 

[abi]

The vast majority of Jewish people currently living in Israel, Judea and Samaria returned to their indigenous and historical homeland in the last century. Better?

Better and an interesting theory. I am really trying to get the facts straight for this project and I want to start at the point where both sides basically agree.

So, to be clear, these people who came in just the last century formerly lived in this area?

 

[Shusha]

The vast majority of Jewish people currently living in Israel, Judea and Samaria returned to their indigenous and historical homeland in the last century. Better?

Better and an interesting theory. I am really trying to get the facts straight for this project and I want to start at the point where both sides basically agree.

So, to be clear, these people who came in just the last century formerly lived in this area?

I'm not in high school anymore, Abi. I'm not going to bite on all your simplistic and fallacious notions.

The Jewish people, as a collective, are the indigenous peoples in that territory. It is their ancestral, historical and religious homeland. As such, just like all First Nations peoples, they have an inherent, inviolable right to have sovereignty over at least some portion of that land. That inherent, inviolable right was legally recognized by the international community who inscribed, in law, the Jewish right to a national homeland (State) on that territory. The Jewish people created a legal State on that territory, in fulfillment of the right and the legal instruments of the time.

No. There is no point of agreement with the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians, and their supporters, do not believe that the Jewish people have any rights to sovereignty, self-government or self-determination on that territory. They will justify that with a number of different excuses, but the most common being that the Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real Jews" TM.

THAT is the essence of the conflict. THAT is why the conflict remains unsolved.

So let me go back to asking you that same question I already asked: Do the Jewish people have a 3000 year history on that land?

 

[abi]

I'm not in high school anymore, Abi. I'm not going to bite on all your simplistic and fallacious notions.

The Jewish people, as a collective, are the indigenous peoples in that territory. It is their ancestral, historical and religious homeland. As such, just like all First Nations peoples, they have an inherent, inviolable right to have sovereignty over at least some portion of that land. That inherent, inviolable right was legally recognized by the international community who inscribed, in law, the Jewish right to a national homeland (State) on that territory. The Jewish people created a legal State on that territory, in fulfillment of the right and the legal instruments of the time.

No. There is no point of agreement with the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians, and their supporters, do not believe that the Jewish people have any rights to sovereignty, self-government or self-determination on that territory. They will justify that with a number of different excuses, but the most common being that the Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real Jews" TM.

THAT is the essence of the conflict. THAT is why the conflict remains unsolved.

So let me go back to asking you that same question I already asked: Do the Jewish people have a 3000 year history on that land?

I'm not in high school anymore either and it I think it is not only a straightforward, but also an important question. Let me ask it another way. Is it possible to return to somewhere one has never been? It appears as though you believe this to be possible and I am really trying to understand your point here.

 

[Shusha]

I'm not in high school anymore either and it I think it is not only a straightforward, but also an important question. Let me ask it another way. Is it possible to return to somewhere one has never been? It appears as though you believe this to be possible and I am really trying to understand your point here.

My point is that colonizing, invading, conquering and removing indigenous peoples from their land is not cool. And those people become refugees. And those refugees and their descendants have a right to return to their homeland.

 

[Shusha]

But I guess if you want to argue that people who have never been there have no rights to it then go ahead. Yay! We have just solved the Palestinian refugee problem!

 

[Shusha]

Look, Abi, my position is easy to understand and simple. I can have the entire conflict solved in week from my end.

The Jewish people are indigenous peoples to that land and they should have sovereignty and self-government on part of it.

The Arab Palestinian people have been in that land for a long-ass time and they should have sovereignty and self-government on part of it.

Take the 1949 Armistice Lines as the basis. Make some land swaps. Agree that all people have a right to religious freedom of worship at the Holy places. Agree to stop any belligerent actions. Eat hummous. Drink wine. Done.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, what does it matter how many Jews returned to their ancestral ancient homeland,

How many Jews returned to their "ancestral ancient homeland" actually have ancestors from the territory?

 

[Shusha]

How many Jews returned to their "ancestral ancient homeland" actually have ancestors from the territory?

All of them. Else they wouldn't BE Jewish.

 

[Shusha]

So, what does it matter how many Jews returned to their ancestral ancient homeland,

How many Jews returned to their "ancestral ancient homeland" actually have ancestors from the territory?

Look, abi. Didn't I tell you? "They aren't really Jewish TM". So predictable.