is lsrael an apartheid state?

[Lisa558]

LOL. I really hope that was sarcasm. If not, read up about it. The Whites held the power though only 10% of the population.

In Israel, only 20% of the population (according to you) is Muslim. But the Israeli State takes over Palestinians' land and water and natural resources when they wish. Israel is carving up the Palestinians land into Bantustans.

Then there's the Likud Party's original platform:

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)​

​

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.​

​

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.​

They also arrest anyone, anyone, and imprison them with "administrative detention" up to 6 months, without the need to show any evidence to the legal system, and can extend the 6-month sentences indefinitely. A Palestinian Christian woman in the oPt, the West Bank, was just taken in a day or two ago.

‘Shhh or I’ll shoot you’: family of jailed Christian woman tell of Israeli raid
Troops took Layan Nasir away at gunpoint from her home in the West Bank and her parents haven’t been told where she is.

Are you a Biden voter or a Trump voter?

 

[John09]

Are you a Biden voter or a Trump voter?

Carry on.

 

[Shusha]

But the Israeli State takes over Palestinians' land and water and natural resources when they wish. Israel is carving up the Palestinians land into Bantustans.

If there is such a thing as "Palestinian land and water and natural resources", then by definition whatever is happening on that land is not apartheid.

 

[John09]

If there is such a thing as "Palestinian land and water and natural resources", then by definition whatever is happening on that land is not apartheid.

As if areas that are supposedly controlled by the PA are not losing water, access, land, resources, movement and much more to the country that actually controls it all. In addition to Muslims and Christians in those areas getting arrested without due process and being held indefinitely. If you claim that this is not apartheid, then it is crimes against a group of people of different national identity and theft of land, natural resources and more.

 

[John09]

OVER THE LAST year, there has been an ongoing public debate as to whether the actions the Israeli government is enacting in the Occupied Palestinian Territories can be classified as apartheid under international law...

As the former Attorney General of Israel, I have spent my career analysing Israel’s most pressing legal questions. It is with great sadness that I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime. It is time for the international community to recognise this reality as well...

Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid.

Michael Benyair is a former Attorney General of Israel and a former acting judge in the Israeli Supreme Court.

Former AG of Israel: With great sadness I conclude that my country is now an apartheid regime

Michael Benyair, former Attorney General of Israel, agrees with Amnesty International.

www.thejournal.ie

I'll take his word over that of randos on the internets, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Shusha]

... If you claim that this is not apartheid, then it is crimes against a group of people of different national identity and theft of land, natural resources and more.

There ya go, then. I'm not sure I care which argument you make, either apartheid or occupation, but you can't hold both at once as they are mutually exclusive. Pick your argument, and defend it. Otherwise it looks like you are just throwing, "but Israel is evil" spaghetti at a wall and hoping something sticks.

 

[Shusha]

OVER THE LAST year, there has been an ongoing public debate as to whether the actions the Israeli government is enacting in the Occupied Palestinian Territories can be classified as apartheid under international law...

As the former Attorney General of Israel, I have spent my career analysing Israel’s most pressing legal questions. It is with great sadness that I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime. It is time for the international community to recognise this reality as well...

Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid.

Michael Benyair is a former Attorney General of Israel and a former acting judge in the Israeli Supreme Court.

Former AG of Israel: With great sadness I conclude that my country is now an apartheid regime

Michael Benyair, former Attorney General of Israel, agrees with Amnesty International.

www.thejournal.ie

I'll take his word over that of randos on the internets, thankyouverymuch.

Well, his take is that Israel is sovereign over the whole territory, ending the argument of "Palestinian" anything.

 

[John09]

Well, his take is that Israel is sovereign over the whole territory, ending the argument of "Palestinian" anything.

I like how you ignore

It is the Israeli courts that uphold discriminatory laws geared to expel Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem and their land in the West Bank. Its healthcare providers operate over the Green Line. And Israeli citizens ultimately pay taxes that subsidise the government’s entrenchment of control and domination in these territories.​

​

Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid.​

 

[ShahdagMountains]

I like how you ignore

It is the Israeli courts that uphold discriminatory laws geared to expel Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem and their land in the West Bank. Its healthcare providers operate over the Green Line. And Israeli citizens ultimately pay taxes that subsidise the government’s entrenchment of control and domination in these territories.​

​

Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid.​

Are these territories part of the State of Israel?

 

[Shusha]

I like how you ignore

It is the Israeli courts that uphold discriminatory laws geared to expel Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem and their land in the West Bank. Its healthcare providers operate over the Green Line. And Israeli citizens ultimately pay taxes that subsidise the government’s entrenchment of control and domination in these territories.​

​

Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid.​

Not in the slightest bit ignoring it. You don't seem to grasp what I am saying. IF there is such a thing as "Palestinian" anything - land, water, natural resources, political rights - then there is no apartheid. Are you prepared to argue that Israel holds sovereignty over the entire territory?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[John09]

Are these territories part of the State of Israel?

In all but name. They exert total control, including taxation etc without actual sovereignty .

Not in the slightest bit ignoring it. You don't seem to grasp what I am saying. IF there is such a thing as "Palestinian" anything - land, water, natural resources, political rights - then there is no apartheid. Are you prepared to argue that Israel holds sovereignty over the entire territory?

You can't have it both ways.

You can't have it both ways because you say so? Actually you can have it both ways.

Here's the actual definition and etymology from Merriam-Webster

1 : racial segregation​

specifically : a former policy of segregation and political, social, and economic discrimination against the non-white majority in the Republic of South Africa​

Note: The extreme racial segregation of apartheid lasted from 1948 to 1994 and included such restrictions as where people of certain races (see race entry 1 sense 1a) could live or own land, what jobs they could hold, and who could and couldn't participate in government.​

2 : separation, segregation​

cultural apartheid​

gender apartheid​

Etymology
Afrikaans, from apart apart + -heid -hood

Israel is certainly engaging in practices clearly covered by the second definition - forced removals, Bantustanization, administrative detention (without the need for any evidence), etc.

The South African experience has given rise to the term "apartheid" being used in a number of contexts other than the South African system of racial segregation. For example: The "crime of apartheid" is defined in international law, including in the 2007 law that created the International Criminal Court (ICC), which names it as a crime against humanity.
The term apartheid has been adopted by Palestinian rights advocates and by leading Israeli and other human rights organizations, referring to the Israeli occupation in the West Bank, legal treatment of illegal settlements and the West Bank barrier.[264][265][266][267] Within the pre-1967 Israeli borders, Palestinian rights advocates have raised concern over discriminatory housing planning against Palestinian citizens of Israel, likening it to racial segregation.[268] Others argue that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians does not fit the definition of apartheid as it is motivated by security considerations and has nothing to do with race.

However, when it comes to those who argue it has to be race based because one has to strictly adhere to the South African model,

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime".[1]...
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Again, from my previous cite:
On 1 February, Amnesty International became the latest NGO to class it as apartheid, calling it ‘a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity’. This followed earlier declarations of apartheid by fellow human rights groups, Yesh Din, B’Tselem and Human Rights Watch...
As the former Attorney General of Israel, I have spent my career analysing Israel’s most pressing legal questions. It is with great sadness that I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime. It is time for the international community to recognise this reality as well...
Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it is Israel that is permanently depriving millions of Palestinians of their civil and political rights. This is Israeli apartheid...
Michael Benyair is a former Attorney General of Israel and a former acting judge in the Israeli Supreme Court.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

In all but name. They exert total control, including taxation etc without actual sovereignty

So they are not a part of the State of Israel. Glad that’s settled.

 

[John09]

So they are not a part of the State of Israel. Glad that’s settled.

As if that makes any difference to them when their land, water and other resources are literally stolen from under them, by the apartheid occupation.

ETA: And tangential to the thread's topic.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

As if that makes any difference to them when their land, water and other resources are literally stolen from under them, by the apartheid occupation.

ETA: And tangential to the thread's topic.

Tell me what apartheid is like in the State of Israel, as tangential to the thread title. Or shall l tell you?

 

[John09]

Tell me what apartheid is like in the State of Israel, as tangential to the thread title. Or shall l tell you?

First, I didn't say apartheid was tangential to the thread title. The OP is very clear with the question, namely, "is lsrael an apartheid state?"

I said this is tangential:

So they are not a part of the State of Israel. Glad that’s settled.​

 

[ShahdagMountains]

First, I didn't say apartheid was tangential to the thread title. The OP is very clear with the question, namely, "is lsrael an apartheid state?"

I said this is tangential:

So they are not a part of the State of Israel. Glad that’s settled.​

You can twist the narrative any way you like. Is the State of Israel an apartheid state?

A straight uncomplicated question, right?

 

[John09]

You can twist the narrative any way you like. Is the State of Israel an apartheid state?

A straight uncomplicated question, right?

It definitely is.

Others brought in the tangential nonsense about it not being apartheid if it's Palestinian territory and/or not part of Israel, as if that matters.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

It definitely is.

Others brought in the tangential nonsense about it not being apartheid if it's Palestinian territory and/or not part of Israel, as if that matters.

Of course it matters. The West Bank is not part of Israel, so how could it be apartheid?

 

[John09]

Of course it matters. The West Bank is not part of Israel, so how could it be apartheid?

I already laid it out with a definition of apartheid and with cites. Been there, done that.

Carry on denying the undeniable.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

I already laid it out with a definition of apartheid and with cites. Been there, done that.

Carry on denying the undeniable.

Annexation is not the same as apartheid.

Read how the Jordanians did it. Do have a problem with that?

Jordanian Annexation of the West Bank (April 1950)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org