"Born a Homo"?

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-Cp

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Also, can anyone please tell me why libs always try to excuse a sinful lifestyle choice by saying "people are just born that way"??

Nobody is born a homo - any more than people are born murderers, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

The mainstay argument of homosexuals, lesbians, bi-sexuals, transexuals, multi-sexuals, et al, is that they are "born that way." I say prove that there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality in anyone. This is of paramount importance, otherwise anyone who wants to engage in perverted, deviant sexual behavior, i.e. bestiality, pedophilia, could simply claim they are born that way and are entitled to "constitutional rights."

One of the outstanding works available on this subject is a book titled, My Genes Made Me Do It! (218 pgs) by Neil and Briar Whitehead. Neil is a research scientist with a Ph.D. in biochemistry; Briar is a writer. This thoroughly documented, footnoted book answers important questions, i.e., is homosexuality biologically fated? Can homosexuals change their sexual preferences? What does science really say about homosexuality? These authors feel very few understand enough about genetics and human biology to mount a thorough defense of the facts.

In chapter 8 their careful analysis of the flawed findings by a homosexual scientist, Simon LeVay. While the homosexual, lesbian, et al, community have tried to use LeVay's findings as the final word on the question of whether someone is born "gay," this book fully documents and exposes LeVay's skewed research. The Whitehead's aren't alone in their criticism of LeVay's conclusions, other credible analysis on this single argument have been published.

After considerable research on this issue since 1992, I have never found any credible, scientific evidence that men and women are born homosexual or lesbian. Every single study done by "gays" has been discredited or found deficient in proving the only justification they can use to prop up their preferred, deviant sexual behavior. This issue isn't about how nice a sodomite (one who engages in sodomy) or lesbian might be as a person, this is a matter of legal status being given to a class of individuals who claim their behavior is pre-programmed before birth.

America's legal system does not extend constitutional rights against prosecution for pedophiles or sickos who want to have sex with animals. Nor are these groups of people given constitutional rights as a protected class of individuals because they choose to engage in such immoral and disgusting behavior. Absent any credible, solid scientific evidence that someone is born "gay," then there is absolutely no way any court in this land can justify the "right" for homosexuals and lesbians to marry because "they're born that way." These rulings that have come down from benches all over this country in the past six months are bogus because they are based on a myth that is politically and financially driven.
 
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i just would like to know how anyone can explain how some people are just "homo". i hear its a sin, i hear they're born with, i don't know. i just know that some people put their heart and soul into trying to be a heterosexual, to try to be attracted to the opposite sex, to try to deny "homo" feelings.... and most fail. i don't hate or despise them, i feel sorry for them. preach this to some guy who's spent his entire teenage and adulthood years trying to like girls and failing badly, despite all the prayer and mediatation a human being can put in 24 hours, every day.
 
Nato, I think you bring up a good point.

My take is that even though I personally find homosexuality repulsive, I do not hate, nor do I wish bad will on anyone afflicted with this condition. I also do not believe it is always a concious chose to be a homosexual, though I will not go as far as to say it is in the genes, being there is no hard scientific evidence which I am aware of. There might be some studies showing a weak, at best, correlation, but that is just not what I consider hard evidence.

I just do not think we have enough information to make such judgments, and anyone who claims to know, is either a fool or a religious fanatic with a closed mind.

My problem is when people try and convince others that it is "normal", well, it is not, but that can be left for another thread.
 
eric said:
My problem is when people try and convince others that it is "normal", well, it is not, but that can be left for another thread.

that's true. i just don't understand it. but like you, i just try to keep an open mind.
 
-Cp said:
Also, can anyone please tell me why libs always try to excuse a sinful lifestyle choice by saying "people are just born that way"??

Look at nature. Isn't it obvious that a small percentage of most warm blooded species are homosexual? Cranes for instance - which mate for life, have about a 2-3% incidence of homosexuality. Two (usually, but not always, male) birds pair up and spend their lives together. It is not clear whether both birds in such a pair are actually homosexual, or if one is and the other is just dominated.

-Cp said:
Nobody is born a homo - any more than people are born murderers, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

Actually there is pleanty of evidence that some people are in fact born murders, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

Murders and liars - have you hever heard of a "psychopath"? While it is believed that this is usually a product of both genetics and nurture, it is a known fact that it can be present from birth - the person is just wired wrong, lacks any empathy or compassion, and is very likely to kill just because it suits them to do so. These people are also chronic liars.

Thieves - a small percentage of people have a predisposition to high risk activities, and often choose to steal to fullfil this aspect of their nature. While some choose other outlets, this group of people will usually steal in the right situation, just for the "rush". Mix this with a little psychopathy, and you have a born theif.

Adulterers - let me modify this one to "rapists", since Adultery is not really a legal crime. I assume in your vast research that you have read of YY and YYY males? These people cannot help themselves, they will rape. Usually by the time they are 16 they have raped a family member or neighbor. By the time they are 20, they are almost always in prison if they have not been killed. A huge percentage of repeat violent rapists in our prisons have this abnormality. And, if they cannot find a female to rape, they will rape a male as well.

Getting back to your original argument about homosexuals... there is very strong evidence to indicate that about 1-2% of the population, mostly males, are in fact genetic homosexuals. About another 2-4% appear to be homosexuals or bi-sexual for non-genetic reasons.

But the real issue here is - what business is it of yours? Why does it matter to you what these people choose to do with their own lives?

I personally do not think the government should recognize marriage, that is a religious institution. The government should recognize "civil unions", and these should be allowed between any pair of consenting adults because of the financial issues involved.

Wade.
 
Perhaps there has been no genetic link shown. But my personal belief is that these people (yes they are people) - would not actually wake up one day and say "okay, today I think I will become a lesbian or homosexual" - that is bull. I've known quite a few gay men, and whether my children will like me anymore for saying this, we have a lesbian in our family. A finer human being you would never find! I love her dearly, even though she is not related to me by blood. I also have 4 very good friends at work who are gay men. They are some of the kindest people I have met in my 23 years with the company. I have discussed the issue with all of them, and they all said the same thing, they knew from a very young age that there was something "different" about them. But does this make them any more "unhuman" than the rest of us - NO! Gay marriage is another issue unto itself. I do not believe in gay marriages - I do though - think that a gay couple in a long-term relationship should be allowed the benefits (i.e., medical insurance, etc.) that a hetro family is allowed. I have never heard any of the above people try to cram their lifestyle on me, and the only time it is ever discussed is if I bring up the subject. "Love your neighbor as you would love yourself" - live and let live!
 
And who would be looking for the "gay gene"? What $ incentive is there to find such a gene?

Only empircal evidence is going to be available for a long time on this issue. We can see by studying animal populations that gayness is indeed natural in a small proportion of almost every warm blooded animal population. Therefore, it is expected it would be the same with humans.

Wade.
 
disposition..

Some people are dispositioned to become motorcycle riders...some are more likely to become artists, or doctors. It's choosing the path you take with teh disposition you have. Homos like homosexuality because it feels good to them. I like riding a motorcycle because it feels good to me. If God forbid me to, I'd stop. It'd be hard to stop. But it's better to do 'right' than to please my senses. Homos don't have the wherewithall to stop their deviant behavior. Gay men are gay because they likely have father issues, AND they enjoy what they do.

Let's ask some 'experts'

"The idea that people are born into one type of sexual behavior is entirely foolish, says Dr. John DeCecco, Psychology Professor at San Francisco State University and editor of the Journal of Homosexuality. Homosexuality, he says, is a behavior, not a condition, and something that some people can and do change, just like they sometimes change their other tastes and personality traits." Source: USA Today, January 1, 1990.

Newsweek in 1992 did an article critiquing the Bailey-Pillard Twins study. The biggest flaw is the interpretation of the researchers. Since about 50% of the identical twins were not homosexual, we can easily conclude that genetics does not play a major part in their sexual orientation. If it had, then 100% of the twins should be homosexual since identical twins have the same genetic makeup. We might just as easily interpret the findings to mean that environmental influences caused their homosexuality. Biologist Anne Fausto-Stirling of Brown University stated, "In order for such a study to be at all meaningful, you'd have to look at twins raised apart. It's such badly interpreted genetics." Dr. Bailey himself stated, " There must be something in the environment to yield the discordant twins." Also in this article was a comment by Dr. Kenneth Klivington on the LeVay study, assistant to the president of the Salk Institute in San Diego (the same Institute that LeVay researched his study), states " There is a body of evidence that shows the brain's neural networks reconfigure themselves in response to certain experiences. Therefore, the difference in homosexual brain structure may be a result of behavior and environmental conditions." Source: David Gelman et al., "Born or Bred?" Newsweek (24 February 1992), p.46.

" For many years I told people I was just born gay. It was the easy way to get people to accept us. If we were born gay that took away any personal responsibility for our behavior and made people feel sorry for us. All along though, we knew it was a convenient lie, but who could challenge it since it was our word against theirs. I love and respect myself today, but I hate the things that I used to do... Today I am living proof that homosexuals can and do change. I was as deep in the lifestyle as anyone. I spent 9 years in one relationship and even thought about getting 'married.' I was 100% 'gay,' now I am 100% recovered... They call it Gay, but I can't think of a more miserable way of life." Source: Richard "Jonah" Weller, handbill, "The Voice They Want Silenced: A former homosexual man speaks out about homosexuality and the politics of dishonesty," 1992.

The whole 'well animals do it' argument is ridiculous...Tell me, can YOU tell the difference between a male and a female Crane? or dolphin?

:-/ Animals eat their young...they run around naked...they shit in a box in my laundry room...they 'clean' themselves by licking their entire body.
 
-=d=- said:
The whole 'well animals do it' argument is ridiculous...Tell me, can YOU tell the difference between a male and a female Crane? or dolphin?

:-/ Animals eat their young...they run around naked...they shit in a box in my laundry room...they 'clean' themselves by licking their entire body.

Oh boy, I could write several behaviors that my labrador does, most of which are not socially acceptable for humans. Could you imagine guys at bars going around sniffing butts?
 
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-=d=- said:
disposition..

Some people are dispositioned to become motorcycle riders...some are more likely to become artists, or doctors. It's choosing the path you take with teh disposition you have. Homos like homosexuality because it feels good to them. I like riding a motorcycle because it feels good to me. If God forbid me to, I'd stop. It'd be hard to stop. But it's better to do 'right' than to please my senses. Homos don't have the wherewithall to stop their deviant behavior. Gay men are gay because they likely have father issues, AND they enjoy what they do.

Let's ask some 'experts'

The whole 'well animals do it' argument is ridiculous...Tell me, can YOU tell the difference between a male and a female Crane? or dolphin?

:-/ Animals eat their young...they run around naked...they shit in a box in my laundry room...they 'clean' themselves by licking their entire body.

Look we can find sociological "experts" on either side of this topic till we draw our last breaths, and still not find anything of real value.

What does it matter if I can tell the difference between a male and female Crane - they can and that's what matters!

You are arguing that based upon your beliefs everyone should do as your beliefs say, even if that means ingoring what their genetics are telling them. Well, my beliefs say that you should not base your beliefs on a book that was written by men to control the minds of other men - perhaps I should try to force my belief upon you?

Can you imagine what your life would be like if you felt the attaction (I assume) you feel when looking at women when you looked at a man, but forced yourself to only engage in relationships with women? This is what I assume a gay man feels.

Wade.
 
The gay men that I have know and spoke of before have all expressed to me that they wish things were different for them. Do you really think it's easy being openly gay? I've seen it at work - most times they are the ones overlooked by the "good old boy" management. I've seen people that expressed to be open-minded and very friendly with one of the men stay away from the funeral of his life partner because "it wouldn't look good". This is crap. If someone is a friend, and a good person, you have no need to desert them in their time of need. Talk about all the scientists that say there is no genetic link, but if you look into it deeply enough, you will find those who are that it is. As for God being against it - I'm not to sure about that one either. I was taught that God=Love. If He feels this is a sin, he will deal with them. We, as human beings, have no right to judge others. We can hate the sin, but forgive the sinner. I try my darndest to treat all people the way I would like to be treated. And just who in this day and age is without sin? You can go to church every day of the week - and still be rotten to the core. Many, many times, I was the victim of what I call the "Texas Salute" (the middle finger), trying to get into the flow of traffic exiting the Church!
 
wade said:
You are arguing that based upon your beliefs everyone should do as your beliefs say, even if that means ingoring what their genetics are telling them. Well, my beliefs say that you should not base your beliefs on a book that was written by men to control the minds of other men - perhaps I should try to force my belief upon you?

Can you imagine what your life would be like if you felt the attaction (I assume) you feel when looking at women when you looked at a man, but forced yourself to only engage in relationships with women? This is what I assume a gay man feels.

Wade.


I'm arguing based on biology...On science. You are arguing based on your fear of absolute truths. I feel attraction to lots of people - I only have sex with women. I'm attracted to Men of character. Fortunately, my mind isn't so jacked up as to make me think I have to do em up the butt as a response to that attraction.

It's ironic to me that you fault the Bible because the existance of God relies so much on FAITH, yet your believe in homosexuals being born that way requires leaps and bounds of faith I can't comprehend.
 
Joan said:
The gay men that I have know and spoke of before have all expressed to me that they wish things were different for them. Do you really think it's easy being openly gay? I've seen it at work - most times they are the ones overlooked by the "good old boy" management. I've seen people that expressed to be open-minded and very friendly with one of the men stay away from the funeral of his life partner because "it wouldn't look good". This is crap. If someone is a friend, and a good person, you have no need to desert them in their time of need. Talk about all the scientists that say there is no genetic link, but if you look into it deeply enough, you will find those who are that it is. As for God being against it - I'm not to sure about that one either. I was taught that God=Love. If He feels this is a sin, he will deal with them. We, as human beings, have no right to judge others. We can hate the sin, but forgive the sinner. I try my darndest to treat all people the way I would like to be treated. And just who in this day and age is without sin? You can go to church every day of the week - and still be rotten to the core. Many, many times, I was the victim of what I call the "Texas Salute" (the middle finger), trying to get into the flow of traffic exiting the Church!

If they don't like being gay, stop having sex with other men. Gay is as gay does. Seek therapy.

As Christians we aren't judging homosexuals any more than we judge liars, or adulterers or murderers. Ted Bundy claimed to have found christ in prison. If that's the case, he was forgiven and now is in Heaven with Christ. Homosexuals can be forgiven just like liars or cheats. God knows our hearts, and while God loves all of us, he simply cannot tolerate unrepentant sins - such as lying, homosexual behaviour, murder, greed, gluttony, etc.

I wasn't BORN Fat, Joan...I'm fat because I allow my 'attraction' to cheesecake to consume me, to the point where I eat despite my hungry. I can't blame biology - A chromasome doesn't force-feed me. It's only thru personal responsibility that I can maintain a somewhat-healthy weight.
 
NATO AIR said:
preach this to some guy who's spent his entire teenage and adulthood years trying to like girls and failing badly, despite all the prayer and mediatation a human being can put in 24 hours, every day.

He probaly felt bad because he was always getting turned down by the women...:)
 
wade said:
Look at nature. Isn't it obvious that a small percentage of most warm blooded species are homosexual? Cranes for instance - which mate for life, have about a 2-3% incidence of homosexuality. Two (usually, but not always, male) birds pair up and spend their lives together. It is not clear whether both birds in such a pair are actually homosexual, or if one is and the other is just dominated.



Actually there is pleanty of evidence that some people are in fact born murders, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

Murders and liars - have you hever heard of a "psychopath"? While it is believed that this is usually a product of both genetics and nurture, it is a known fact that it can be present from birth - the person is just wired wrong, lacks any empathy or compassion, and is very likely to kill just because it suits them to do so. These people are also chronic liars.

Thieves - a small percentage of people have a predisposition to high risk activities, and often choose to steal to fullfil this aspect of their nature. While some choose other outlets, this group of people will usually steal in the right situation, just for the "rush". Mix this with a little psychopathy, and you have a born theif.

Adulterers - let me modify this one to "rapists", since Adultery is not really a legal crime. I assume in your vast research that you have read of YY and YYY males? These people cannot help themselves, they will rape. Usually by the time they are 16 they have raped a family member or neighbor. By the time they are 20, they are almost always in prison if they have not been killed. A huge percentage of repeat violent rapists in our prisons have this abnormality. And, if they cannot find a female to rape, they will rape a male as well.

Getting back to your original argument about homosexuals... there is very strong evidence to indicate that about 1-2% of the population, mostly males, are in fact genetic homosexuals. About another 2-4% appear to be homosexuals or bi-sexual for non-genetic reasons.

But the real issue here is - what business is it of yours? Why does it matter to you what these people choose to do with their own lives?

I personally do not think the government should recognize marriage, that is a religious institution. The government should recognize "civil unions", and these should be allowed between any pair of consenting adults because of the financial issues involved.

Wade.

There you libs go again, comparing Mankind to animals.. "Oh, the animals do it, therefore it must be okay" - last I checked, Mankind was created in God's image and therefore supposed to be a "tad" more intelligent? Additionally, those animals that do a "homosexual act" - don't end-up living a homo lifestyle, they just hump the wrong creature for a min... then it's like an "oops, my bad, I'm just a dumb-ass animal"..

I find it really odd how you like to disguise and justify sin in the backdrop of genetics...

If someone likes to do animals are they born that way or is that a choice? Where does your form of logic end?
 
wade said:
Can you imagine what your life would be like if you felt the attaction (I assume) you feel when looking at women when you looked at a man, but forced yourself to only engage in relationships with women? This is what I assume a gay man feels.

Wade.

That couldn't happen to him Wade - if it did, he has about 4 relatives that'd beat the gay right out of him...:p
 
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-=d=- said:
...but a certain said cousin on Capital Hill who'd be all for it. ;)

:D

I think he actually lives in the "U-District".. :p

Actually, he's not your cousin - he's your wife's... so you two could still hook-up... lol
 
-Cp said:
I think he actually lives in the "U-District".. :p

Actually, he's not your cousin - he's your wife's... so you two could still hook-up... lol


hmm...he IS better looking than some women i've been with... :p:
 
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