Blue Lives Matter

[dblack]

For those of you who don't yet understand why protected classes law, despite good intentions, is a bad idea - some food for thought:

Louisiana’s ‘Blue Lives Matter’ bill just became law

Louisana Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) signed the “Blue Lives Matter” bill into law Thursday, making the state the first in the nation where public safety workers are considered a protected class under hate-crime law. ...

 

[MarathonMike]

I don't understand your statement.

 

[dblack]

I don't understand your statement.

This is a follow up on several conversations we've had on the boards about what has become a pillar of civil rights legislation, namely the concept of "protected classes". I've long held that government focused on giving 'special rights to special people' is bad government, that it will lead to less equality under the law and undermine liberal democracy.

The article cited is about a law passed in Louisiana extending protected class status to "public safety workers".

 

[airplanemechanic]

It simply increases the penalties for hate crimes targeted at first responders and cops. What's the big deal?

 

[dblack]

It simply increases the penalties for hate crimes targeted at first responders and cops. What's the big deal?

It's a big deal because it grants authority figures special rights and protections - rights and protections that 'mere' citizens don't get. That's fundamentally un-American.

 

[airplanemechanic]

It has nothing to do with any right or protection.

By all means, please specify the "right" or "protection" that this law affords first responders that the average citizen doesn't have. Please be specific.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't understand your statement.

This is a follow up on several conversations we've had on the boards about what has become a pillar of civil rights legislation, namely the concept of "protected classes". I've long held that government focused on giving 'special rights to special people' is bad government, that it will lead to less equality under the law and undermine liberal democracy.

The article cited is about a law passed in Louisiana extending protected class status to "public safety workers".

Dear dblack
are you saying that if we/the law start SPECIFYING PARTICULAR citizens,
then to be fair to all others, ALL such subgroups would need to be SPECIFICALLY NAMED
and PROTECTED IN WRITING to have equal protections as the other NAMED groups?

(ie we can say religious freedom without naming Buddhists, Christians, Eastern religions,
secular humanists or nontheists as protected TYPES or groups. because if we start
naming some types, we'd have to name all such types to give them equal legal status and protection)

 

[dblack]

I don't understand your statement.

This is a follow up on several conversations we've had on the boards about what has become a pillar of civil rights legislation, namely the concept of "protected classes". I've long held that government focused on giving 'special rights to special people' is bad government, that it will lead to less equality under the law and undermine liberal democracy.

The article cited is about a law passed in Louisiana extending protected class status to "public safety workers".

Dear dblack
are you saying that if we/the law start SPECIFYING PARTICULAR citizens,
then to be fair to all others, ALL such subgroups would need to be SPECIFICALLY NAMED
and PROTECTED IN WRITING to have equal protections as the other NAMED groups?

(ie we can say religious freedom without naming Buddhists, Christians, Eastern religions,
secular humanists or nontheists as protected TYPES or groups. because if we start
naming some types, we'd have to name all such types to give them equal legal status and protection)

Ultimately, I'm saying the precedent of carving out special 'protected classes' was a bad idea, and that this law is a good example of why.

Ever since the idea of protected classes was introduced, libertarians have been arguing against it because of the way it actually undermines equal protection, despite the opposite intention. Advocates dismissed our concerns as 'slippery slope', or as cover for bigotry and racism. They claimed that indulging a few, ad-hoc social problems with special protections was warranted and would only ever be used to protect the powerless. But nothing about the concept of protected classes constrains it to that purpose and the Louisiana law shows how it can play out.

We've accepted the idea that government can grant special protections to special interests as it sees fit. Advocates of such state intervention seem to have a naive view that it will only ever be used to protect the powerless, and libertarians have been shouted down for pointing out this error. I'm now wondering how the Louisiana law will affect their attitudes, especially as it is being used as a deliberate 'in-your-face' counter to the genuine civil rights issues raised by 'Black Lives Matter'.

 

[MarathonMike]

Ok I understand and you make some valid points.
But why do consider the actions of #BLM to be legitimate when they are doing exactly what you are describing? Look at the consequences of "protectionism" in this context. You have Police that are being harassed and filmed by 20 cell phones on every encounter. They are in effect "protecting" the criminal. Would you like to be an urban Cop in this day and age? It's an impossible job. The actions of #BLM are making Black lives worse by turning young Blacks into a protected class.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Dblack, can I assume you cannot answer the question I asked in post 6 three days ago?

 

[dblack]

Dblack, can I assume you cannot answer the question I asked in post 6 three days ago?

Assume whatever you like.

 

[dblack]

Ok I understand and you make some valid points.
But why do consider the actions of #BLM to be legitimate when they are doing exactly what you are describing?Look at the consequences of "protectionism" in this context. You have Police that are being harassed and filmed by 20 cell phones on every encounter. They are in effect "protecting" the criminal. Would you like to be an urban Cop in this day and age? It's an impossible job. The actions of #BLM are making Black lives worse by turning young Blacks into a protected class.

I didn't say that I consider the actions of #BLM legitimate. I said that the movement raises legitimate civil rights issues. My point of view is that government shouldn't be in the business of offering special protections at all, that to do so actually undermines equal rights.

 

[my2¢]

It seems to me equal justice means hate crimes should have a blind eye as to the victim and should focus on the intent of the aggressor. If we find the situation becomes hate crimes against police and firemen are requiring less evidence to prosecute than those against minority victims I think that is telling and warrants review of the law. However, the article more or less assumes that will be the case. Hopefully the law will raise awareness of hate crimes, including awareness by the men and women in blue.

 

[dblack]

It seems to me equal justice means hate crimes should have a blind eye as to the victim and should focus on the intent of the aggressor. If we find the situation becomes hate crimes against police and firemen are requiring less evidence to prosecute than those against minority victims I think that is telling and warrants review of the law. However, the article more or less assumes that will be the case. Hopefully the law will raise awareness of hate crimes, including awareness by the men and women in blue.

My interest in this issue is mostly centered on the Constitutionality of protected classes, and the hypocrisy it provokes on 'both sides of the aisle'. But it is a sad observation that we're making it "more illegal" to commit a crime targeting a police officer (and implicitly less illegal to target anyone else).

The only sane response to the excesses of the "Black Lives Matter" campaign is "All Lives Matter".

It's like we're just giving up on the idea of equal rights and conceding to government that amounts to everyone vying for special privileges.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

For those of you who don't yet understand why protected classes law, despite good intentions, is a bad idea - some food for thought:

Louisiana’s ‘Blue Lives Matter’ bill just became law

Louisana Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) signed the “Blue Lives Matter” bill into law Thursday, making the state the first in the nation where public safety workers are considered a protected class under hate-crime law. ...

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

And that the Constitution recognizes suspect and protected classes of citizens is consistent with safeguarding the rights of the people as intended by the Framers.

 

[Ravi]

It simply increases the penalties for hate crimes targeted at first responders and cops. What's the big deal?

It's a big deal because it grants authority figures special rights and protections - rights and protections that 'mere' citizens don't get. That's fundamentally un-American.

Will politicians be next? This is ridiculous, after all people choose to become public safety employees.

 

[dblack]

It simply increases the penalties for hate crimes targeted at first responders and cops. What's the big deal?

It's a big deal because it grants authority figures special rights and protections - rights and protections that 'mere' citizens don't get. That's fundamentally un-American.

Will politicians be next? This is ridiculous, after all people choose to become public safety employees.

- welcome home.

 

[dblack]

For those of you who don't yet understand why protected classes law, despite good intentions, is a bad idea - some food for thought:

Louisiana’s ‘Blue Lives Matter’ bill just became law

Louisana Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) signed the “Blue Lives Matter” bill into law Thursday, making the state the first in the nation where public safety workers are considered a protected class under hate-crime law. ...

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

And that the Constitution recognizes suspect and protected classes of citizens is consistent with safeguarding the rights of the people as intended by the Framers.

Care to support that (unsupported) claim? What is false about the comparison?

 

[Ravi]

Just what the police need, another reason to feel they are above the law.

 

[dblack]

Just what the police need, another reason to feel they are above the law.

Ok... now I don't want to jump all over you here, but you've tripped upon the reason I started this thread. Can you now see why 'protected classes' are a bad idea? How we should never allow anyone to be 'above the law' and, instead, task the government with protecting everyone's rights equally?