Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy -- M Stanton Evans

[CrusaderFrank]

“If there were five million feet of film on St. Francis of Assisi, you could probably find a shot of him running away naked from his father’s house (he did), and Ed Murrow could prove he was an exhibitionist and a poseur (he affected to talk to the birds!).” -- William F Buckley on how the Liberal Media went after Joe McCarthy

 

[JakeStarkey]

I truly liked Buckley, but he is wrong on this. Frank, provide the link for this, please, so we can make sure you are not lying again.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I truly liked Buckley, but he is wrong on this. Frank, provide the link for this, please, so we can make sure you are not lying again.

William F. Buckley Jr. on Edward R. Murrow, Sen. Joe McCarthy, and Good Night, and Good Luck on National Review Online

" He made the point that there wasn’t anybody in the world you couldn’t demolish by doing to him what Murrow did to McCarthy. If there were five million feet of film on St. Francis of Assisi, you could probably find a shot of him running away naked from his father’s house (he did), and Ed Murrow could prove he was an exhibitionist and a poseur (he affected to talk to the birds!)."

That help any, Jakey?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I truly liked Buckley, but he is wrong on this. Frank, provide the link for this, please, so we can make sure you are not lying again.

William F. Buckley Jr. on Edward R. Murrow, Sen. Joe McCarthy, and Good Night, and Good Luck on National Review Online

" He made the point that there wasn’t anybody in the world you couldn’t demolish by doing to him what Murrow did to McCarthy. If there were five million feet of film on St. Francis of Assisi, you could probably find a shot of him running away naked from his father’s house (he did), and Ed Murrow could prove he was an exhibitionist and a poseur (he affected to talk to the birds!)."

That help any, Jakey?

It does. Thanks for the cite. "If that happens, I’ll probably say what is correct, namely that my own study of McCarthy ended with his activity in September 1953, that his fight with the Army, which was what the fracas was about in 1954 — which got him censured, and which loosed Edward R. Murrow — was something else, that McCarthy had thrown restraint to one side, that he was deep in booze in those days and did some flatly inexcusable things, for instance his attack on General Ralph Zwicker. "

"But, if pressed, I’d have recalled that the current movie makes a heroine out of Annie Lee Moss, the black code clerk allegedly mistaken by McCarthy for another Annie Lee Moss, who was indeed a member of the Communist Party. Never mind, what mattered in the current production was melodrama, and orderly thought bars chiasmic effects: McCarthy smeared the opposition/The opposition smeared McCarthy."

Does that help focus Buckley better of Joe McCarthy, Frank?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since McCarthy is being sited again by Progressives its time to revisit how correct he was in his warning that key people at State and the White House were Communist spies

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I truly liked Buckley, but he is wrong on this. Frank, provide the link for this, please, so we can make sure you are not lying again.

William F. Buckley Jr. on Edward R. Murrow, Sen. Joe McCarthy, and Good Night, and Good Luck on National Review Online

" He made the point that there wasn’t anybody in the world you couldn’t demolish by doing to him what Murrow did to McCarthy. If there were five million feet of film on St. Francis of Assisi, you could probably find a shot of him running away naked from his father’s house (he did), and Ed Murrow could prove he was an exhibitionist and a poseur (he affected to talk to the birds!)."

That help any, Jakey?

It does. Thanks for the cite. "If that happens, I’ll probably say what is correct, namely that my own study of McCarthy ended with his activity in September 1953, that his fight with the Army, which was what the fracas was about in 1954 — which got him censured, and which loosed Edward R. Murrow — was something else, that McCarthy had thrown restraint to one side, that he was deep in booze in those days and did some flatly inexcusable things, for instance his attack on General Ralph Zwicker. "

"But, if pressed, I’d have recalled that the current movie makes a heroine out of Annie Lee Moss, the black code clerk allegedly mistaken by McCarthy for another Annie Lee Moss, who was indeed a member of the Communist Party. Never mind, what mattered in the current production was melodrama, and orderly thought bars chiasmic effects: McCarthy smeared the opposition/The opposition smeared McCarthy."

Does that help focus Buckley better of Joe McCarthy, Frank?

"McCarthyism... is a movement around which men of good will and stern morality can close ranks." -- William F Buckley.

Fail again Jake

 

[JakeStarkey]

You guys still have not demonstrated that Bill despised Joe, which he certainly did.

Nice try, though. Carry on.

 

[Bfgrn]

Since McCarthy is being sited again by Progressives its time to revisit how correct he was in his warning that key people at State and the White House were Communist spies

Are they moving his grave?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Since McCarthy is being sited again by Progressives its time to revisit how correct he was in his warning that key people at State and the White House were Communist spies

Are they moving his grave?

Didn't they have to pour concrete over it to preserve it from patriots tearing it up?

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

"my own study of McCarthy ended with his activity in September 1953 [...] his fight with the Army, which was what the fracas was about in 1954 — which got him censured[/I][/B]"

Since Buckley admitted that his study of McCarthy ended in 1953, it's understandable that he was somewhat fuzzy on the events of '54. What got McCarthy censured was not the Army's charges, which were found by the Mundt panel to be baseless, but his refusal to cooperate with the Gillette committee, a completely separate matter.

"the current movie makes a heroine out of Annie Lee Moss, the black code clerk allegedly mistaken by McCarthy for another Annie Lee Moss, who was indeed a member of the Communist Party."[/I][/B]

It should perhaps be noted that this mistaken-identity thesis, floated by Senate Democrats, trumpeted by Murrow, and regurgitated by Clooney, was phony from the get-go. As the Subversive Activities Control Board revealed in 1958 (once McCarthy was safely dead), the Pentagon code clerk Annie Lee Moss was indeed a member of the Communist Party of Washington, DC, just as FBI undercover operative Mary Markward had testified before the McCarthy subcommittee. But Senate Democrats were perfectly aware of this while they were playing the mistaken-identity gambit, as the FBI had shared a copy of the party's membership roster with Sen Henry "Scoop" Jackson (D-WA). See Blacklisted by History, p. 534, for a photographic reproduction of the FBI report.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since McCarthy is being sited again by Progressives its time to revisit how correct he was in his warning that key people at State and the White House were Communist spies

Are they moving his grave?

I guess if I was wrong about everything and had no substance to counter an argument, yeah, I'd highlight that it should be cited, well done. Very illuminating

 

[JakeStarkey]

"my own study of McCarthy ended with his activity in September 1953 [...] his fight with the Army, which was what the fracas was about in 1954 — which got him censured[/I][/B]"

Since Buckley admitted that his study of McCarthy ended in 1953, it's understandable that he was somewhat fuzzy on the events of '54. What got McCarthy censured was not the Army's charges, which were found by the Mundt panel to be baseless, but his refusal to cooperate with the Gillette committee, a completely separate matter.

"the current movie makes a heroine out of Annie Lee Moss, the black code clerk allegedly mistaken by McCarthy for another Annie Lee Moss, who was indeed a member of the Communist Party."[/I][/B]

It should perhaps be noted that this mistaken-identity thesis, floated by Senate Democrats, trumpeted by Murrow, and regurgitated by Clooney, was phony from the get-go. As the Subversive Activities Control Board revealed in 1958 (once McCarthy was safely dead), the Pentagon code clerk Annie Lee Moss was indeed a member of the Communist Party of Washington, DC, just as FBI undercover operative Mary Markward had testified before the McCarthy subcommittee. But Senate Democrats were perfectly aware of this while they were playing the mistaken-identity gambit, as the FBI had shared a copy of the party's membership roster with Sen Henry "Scoop" Jackson (D-WA). See Blacklisted by History, p. 534, for a photographic reproduction of the FBI report.

Buckley was not confused on the events of 1954, and you are misrepresenting them.

The FBI made a report, but no objective confirmation of this thesis of "knowingly" mistaken democrats can be connected to the Senate democrats.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Buckley was not confused on the events of 1954, and you are misrepresenting them.

You quoted Buckley as saying that that McCarthy's

fight with the Army [...] got him censured

In fact, according to Blacklisted by History, "the Zwicker charge was dropped, leaving only the count about the Gillette committee as the basis for McCarthy's censure." (p. 593)

If you allege that what I have written is at variance with the facts, please give the specific facts, and your source. "Misrepresentation" carries a connotation of intention to deceive. What is your evidence of my intention? If you disagree, how can you discard the possibility of honest error?

The FBI made a report, but no objective confirmation of this thesis of "knowingly" mistaken democrats can be connected to the Senate democrats.

The FBI report photographically reproduced on p. 534 of Blacklisted by History is dated February 24, 1956, two weeks before Senate Democrats accused McCarthy of a case of mistaken identity with regard to Moss. This report details the FBI briefing of Sen. Henry ("Scoop") Jackson, junior member of the minority on the McCarthy subcommittee, on the Moss case. According to the agent's report:

"I then told the Senator that in addition to the Mary Markward testimony, we had secured through confidential sources access to an examination of membership records of the Communist Party of the District of Columbia in May of 1944, that these reflected the name of Annie Lee Moss of 72 R Street."

The report adds:

"Senator Jackson stated that this certainly was enough for him and that there could be no doubt about Annie Lee Moss's Communist Party affiliations."

Yet on March 11, 1954, when Moss testified, Jackson joined Sen. Stuart Symington (D-MO) in putting forward the mistaken-identity thesis:

SYMINGTON: Do you know anybody else in this town named Moss? Have you ever looked up a telephone number -- are there any Mosses in Washington besides you?
MOSS: Yes, sir, there are three Annie Lee Mosses.
JACKSON: Will you state that again?
MOSS: There were three Annie Lee Mosses.

(As Evans notes on p. 539, this is false: There was only one Annie Lee Moss listed in the Washington phone directory -- the witness.)

Then, Moss was asked about when and where she had subscribed to the Communist Party's official organ, The Daily Worker. According to the hearing transcripts, Moss testified that she didn't receive the paper after she moved to "72 R St."

Throughout all this, and up until the Subversive Activities Control Board publicly revealed the truth in 1958, Jackson and the rest of the Senate Democrats went along with the mistaken-identity thesis.

That Jackson knew better is indisputable. That he had withheld his FBI briefing from Symington and McClellan (senior Democrat on the McCarthy subcommittee) seems incredible, but would be even more incriminating of him.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is no proof of anything. No "proof" exists of Jackson knowing better. Nothing, period.

So let's try again.

Show us where the Senate "democrats" had been notified of the report. Show us where Jackson "knew better."

You are lacking big time.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Show us where the Senate "democrats" had been notified of the report.

Jackson was the junior Democrat on the McCarthy subcommittee. He was delegated by the minority to be briefed by the FBI on behalf of subcommittee Democrats. Either he shared this information with McClellan and Symington, or he withheld it. Neither option makes Jackson look very good. But for anyone familiar with the Senate, your implication that Jackson withheld this information from fellow Democrats on the subcommittee strains credibility. Yet if true, it makes Jackson look even worse.

Show us where Jackson "knew better."

Jackson was informed by the FBI that the Communist Party of Washington, DC had listed Annie Lee Moss not just as a member, and subscriber to the Daily Worker, but as a Group Captain for registration. He was also informed that her address was "72 R Street," the same address Moss later testified was her own.

Jackson himself declared the information he obtained from the FBI to be convincing. Later, when Moss slipped up and confirmed the address the FBI had given Jackson, there could be no doubt.

It was on the basis of the exact same FBI evidence Jackson had -- and no other -- that the Subversive Activities Control Board found publicly in 1958 that Annie Lee Moss was a Communist Party member.

If you are still able to find reasonable doubt, you are of course entitled to your opinion. Historians who have examined recently available evidence, however, have generally come to the opposite opinion. See, for example, Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator, or Andrea Freeman, The Strange Career of Annie Lee Moss: Rethinking Race, Gender, and McCarthyism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That is no proof of anything. No "proof" exists of Jackson knowing better. Nothing, period.

So let's try again.

Show us where the Senate "democrats" had been notified of the report. Show us where Jackson "knew better."

You are lacking big time.

You might want to at least have some clue before you challenge an expert. Then again, I'm enjoying this as a spectator

 

[JakeStarkey]

Show us where the Senate "democrats" had been notified of the report.

Jackson was the junior Democrat on the McCarthy subcommittee. He was delegated by the minority to be briefed by the FBI on behalf of subcommittee Democrats. Either he shared this information with McClellan and Symington, or he withheld it. Neither option makes Jackson look very good. But for anyone familiar with the Senate, your implication that Jackson withheld this information from fellow Democrats on the subcommittee strains credibility. Yet if true, it makes Jackson look even worse.

Show us where Jackson "knew better."

Jackson was informed by the FBI that the Communist Party of Washington, DC had listed Annie Lee Moss not just as a member, and subscriber to the Daily Worker, but as a Group Captain for registration. He was also informed that her address was "72 R Street," the same address Moss later testified was her own.

Jackson himself declared the information he obtained from the FBI to be convincing. Later, when Moss slipped up and confirmed the address the FBI had given Jackson, there could be no doubt.

It was on the basis of the exact same FBI evidence Jackson had -- and no other -- that the Subversive Activities Control Board found publicly in 1958 that Annie Lee Moss was a Communist Party member.

If you are still able to find reasonable doubt, you are of course entitled to your opinion. Historians who have examined recently available evidence, however, have generally come to the opposite opinion. See, for example, Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator, or Andrea Freeman, The Strange Career of Annie Lee Moss: Rethinking Race, Gender, and McCarthyism.

Thank you, Mark, for explaining clearly. I am still not convinced of your overall attempt at rehabilitating JM but this makes one think more about what the Dems were up to.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Thank you, Mark, for explaining clearly. I am still not convinced of your overall attempt at rehabilitating JM but this makes one think more about what the Dems were up to.

You're very welcome, Jake, and thanks for your gracious comment. I'm actually not interested in rehabilitating McCarthy (I agree with Evans that he was a "flawed" character, but those who opposed him were also not without flaws). I'm not interested in changing anyone's opinion about McCarthy; I'm only interested in getting the underlying facts straight. To that end, I'm interested in learning all I can.

I'm still learning.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

As an afterthought, I should mention that I didn't mean to diss Buckley. He and Brent Bozell worked as volunteer McCarthy staffers, and wrote a defense of McCarthy, McCarthy and His Enemies (1954), which was pretty good, considering that they had no access to the most important evidence Evans uses, which was then classified.

Incidentally, Buckley had Evans proofread his last book, The Redhunter, a novel about McCarthy, and his sister Tish Bozell said that when he died, the book on Buckley's bedside table was Blacklisted by History.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

Leftists are scared to death of THE TRUTH, because the "truth" is always supported by FACTS.

Leftists much prefer rumors, lies, fabrications, and whatever other "tool(s)" they need to use to stir up EMOTIONAL responses.