Bill Maher Absolutely Crushes Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity

Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: "I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination."

In his, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
 
Called the father of the Constitution, Madison had no conventional sense of Christianity. In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
 
Although Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism, "My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist."
 
In an essay on "Toleration," Franklin wrote:

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England."

Dr. Priestley, an intimate friend of Franklin, wrote of him:

"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography)
 
Thomas Paine

This freethinker and author of several books, influenced more early Americans than any other writer. Although he held Deist beliefs, he wrote in his famous The Age of Reason:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. "

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. "
 
The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
 
One of the ways you can tell that the RWs here have never watched Maher is that they don't know he has no affection for the religion of Islam. None at all. They also don't know what he really says about god.

He was his usual funny, ascerbic self last night, live on his show followed by live stand up in DC.

Dealt with the idiot tee potty heckler quite well.

And the bit with the boy scout helping the little old lady across the street was a hoot.

I know all about Bill Maher.

Rose is an imbecile. Maher is a theological dunce. They're both illiberal statist bootlicks.

In the meantime, this nation was founded on the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity's ethical system of thought, the classical liberalism of the Anglo-American tradition.






You're confusing the pilgrims with the founders of the United States of America.

The pilgrims did found and establish a christian theocratic colony of England. With the king and the christian church controlling the colonies.

That was in the 1600s. The next century the liberal decedents of those pilgrims didn't want to live in a theocratic monarchy. They declared independence from England and fought a war for their freedom.

When they won, they created a secular nation with church and state separate. They named that nation The United States of America.

I'm surprised you didn't learn that in school.


We have never been a secular nation .This is liberal propaganda that started in the 60's and is not true. Our History proves that we have always been a Christian Nation with Freedom to worship as we please or not to and that our Government is to make no laws in regards to our religious freedom.
Never were we to take our worship of God out of our Government.
This country was founded overwhelmingly by men and women steeped in the Bible. Their moral values emanated from the Bible, and they regarded liberty as possible only if understood as given by God. That is why the Liberty Bell's inscription is from the Old Testament, and why Thomas Jefferson, the allegedly non-religious deist, wrote (as carved into the Jefferson Memorial): "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"
The evidence is overwhelming that the Founders were religious people who wanted a religious country that enshrined liberty for all its citizens, including those of different religions and those of no faith.

The post right before yours mentions the Treaty of Tripoli. Are you familiar with it's opening line?

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president).

That is not the opening line, it is article 11. Read post #55
Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship Signed at Tripoli November 4 1796
 
One of the ways you can tell that the RWs here have never watched Maher is that they don't know he has no affection for the religion of Islam. None at all. They also don't know what he really says about god.

He was his usual funny, ascerbic self last night, live on his show followed by live stand up in DC.

Dealt with the idiot tee potty heckler quite well.

And the bit with the boy scout helping the little old lady across the street was a hoot.

I know all about Bill Maher.

Rose is an imbecile. Maher is a theological dunce. They're both illiberal statist bootlicks.

In the meantime, this nation was founded on the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity's ethical system of thought, the classical liberalism of the Anglo-American tradition.






You're confusing the pilgrims with the founders of the United States of America.

The pilgrims did found and establish a christian theocratic colony of England. With the king and the christian church controlling the colonies.

That was in the 1600s. The next century the liberal decedents of those pilgrims didn't want to live in a theocratic monarchy. They declared independence from England and fought a war for their freedom.

When they won, they created a secular nation with church and state separate. They named that nation The United States of America.

I'm surprised you didn't learn that in school.
If that were true why did the founders think it was important to have a congressional CHRISTIAN chaplain? That was one of the first votes of the new government.






What does a chaplain have to do with the constitution or the business of America? So they have a chaplain to say a prayer. That doesn't mean that our nation was founded on christianity or we're a theocratic nation.

If the founders of America wanted a theocratic nation they wouldn't have written the first Amendment.

Nor would congress have unanimously passed the Treaty of Tripoli. The very first sentence of that agreement states very clearly that America isn't founded on christianity.

The people who you posted about fought with England against the founders of America. Those who wanted America to remain a theocratic monarchy of England were the torries or conservatives.


No it doesn't. It's in article 11.
TREATY OF TRIPOLI
ARTICLE 11.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

You do not have to be a Christian in order to become a public servant for our Government.
Everyone in this Nation has the freedom to worship how they please or not to at all.
We have always had Christian (morals and principle) values - that there is always a right and a wrong and that there is good and evil. This was a unity that we used to have among all of Americans and you did not have to believe in God, but still had these principals. Without these basic principals you can not have a free nation and Government then steps in and becomes the controller.
For this reason is why we were never a secular nation.


My mistake. I was wrong about where it was located. I wasn't wrong about what it said.

While some of the founders were christians, not all of them were and they all agreed to a secular government with church and state separate. The fact that our congress passed a that treaty unanimously says that the founders of America flatly said America wasn't founded on christianity.

Are you saying that they're liars?

Here's some quotes from some of the founders of America:

Religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers


Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." From:
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)


George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance. From:
George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)

John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." From:
The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.

Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained." From:
Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
From:
The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.

Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature." From:
Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of Historycompiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)


Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian. From:
Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1970.
 
The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth​

Article VII
 
One of the ways you can tell that the RWs here have never watched Maher is that they don't know he has no affection for the religion of Islam. None at all. They also don't know what he really says about god.

He was his usual funny, ascerbic self last night, live on his show followed by live stand up in DC.

Dealt with the idiot tee potty heckler quite well.

And the bit with the boy scout helping the little old lady across the street was a hoot.

I know all about Bill Maher.

Rose is an imbecile. Maher is a theological dunce. They're both illiberal statist bootlicks.

In the meantime, this nation was founded on the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity's ethical system of thought, the classical liberalism of the Anglo-American tradition.






You're confusing the pilgrims with the founders of the United States of America.

The pilgrims did found and establish a christian theocratic colony of England. With the king and the christian church controlling the colonies.

That was in the 1600s. The next century the liberal decedents of those pilgrims didn't want to live in a theocratic monarchy. They declared independence from England and fought a war for their freedom.

When they won, they created a secular nation with church and state separate. They named that nation The United States of America.

I'm surprised you didn't learn that in school.


We have never been a secular nation .This is liberal propaganda that started in the 60's and is not true. Our History proves that we have always been a Christian Nation with Freedom to worship as we please or not to and that our Government is to make no laws in regards to our religious freedom.
Never were we to take our worship of God out of our Government.
This country was founded overwhelmingly by men and women steeped in the Bible. Their moral values emanated from the Bible, and they regarded liberty as possible only if understood as given by God. That is why the Liberty Bell's inscription is from the Old Testament, and why Thomas Jefferson, the allegedly non-religious deist, wrote (as carved into the Jefferson Memorial): "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"
The evidence is overwhelming that the Founders were religious people who wanted a religious country that enshrined liberty for all its citizens, including those of different religions and those of no faith.

The post right before yours mentions the Treaty of Tripoli. Are you familiar with it's opening line?

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president).

That is not the opening line, it is article 11. Read post #55
Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship Signed at Tripoli November 4 1796
To be sure, though, that line in the treaty has been in contention since the Senate ratified it. In 1805, The treaty of Peace and Amity was signed, which supersedes the Treaty of Tripoli, and which does not contain that phrase.

The Treaty of Tripoli was conciliatory, intended to allay fears in the Muslim state that religion was a factor in the agreement.

Imagine how easy it would be to start a thread listing government documents and acts attesting to the Christian foundations of our country - not necessarily the government, but the country.
 
The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

We were never a Christian Republic nor were we suppose to be one. We are a Constitutional Republic
We are suppose to be a nation of principals and morals and values of self reliance and individual freedom not one group or one person ruling over the vast majority. Nor the minority ruling over the majority. Which is what has happened.
This political correctness has ruined this nation.
There has never ever been a right to not be offended. Every single American born has been offended over something or another, but now it has become totally out of control for everyone not to be offended, with conservatives to be exempt. This is far from freedom Synthaholic.
There was a time when almost every single American thought that there was a right and a wrong and that there was evil in this world. Almost all of us were taught common sense. Now we are a bunch of spoiled rotten children and hardly no one uses any common sense. Our thought processes and reasoning has gone out the door.
 
Fact
For most of their history, the House and the Senate have each elected a chaplain. The Senate
elected as its first chaplain Samuel Provoost, an Episcopal bishop from New York, on April 25,
1789. The House then elected William Linn, a Presbyterian minister from Philadelphia, on May 1,
1789. Pursuant to an act of September 22, 1789, each chaplain received an annual salary of $500.5

When Congress moved to Washington in 1800, houses of worship were so few that the chaplains
took turns conducting Sunday services in the House chamber—now Statuary Hall. Visiting clergy
also participated in these services, which were open to the public.6

http://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

If this was not an important issue to the founders and the government as a whole their never would have been a vote considered nor would we have a congressional chaplain
This discussion should be dead now.
 
One of the ways you can tell that the RWs here have never watched Maher is that they don't know he has no affection for the religion of Islam. None at all. They also don't know what he really says about god.

He was his usual funny, ascerbic self last night, live on his show followed by live stand up in DC.

Dealt with the idiot tee potty heckler quite well.

And the bit with the boy scout helping the little old lady across the street was a hoot.

synthy is a liberal. get your facts straight.
Why don't you just say what you are trying to say instead of making us guess what you mean?

I think people here already know I'm a Liberal.

What makes me like you is that you DO sound like an American!

Not an extremist or a foreigner planted here to learn American language, idioms and culture so as to prepare their 'agents' to pretend to be Americans online so they might sway the views of the uninformed.

I don't sense any of that from you.

That automatically relaxes my defenses.

You are just a Liberal woman trying to make sense of all of this. And being cursed with the genetically determined "Liberal Hardwiring" sure doesn't make the task of wrapping your brain around some of this stuff any easier.

You seem to be the kind of Liberal with whom we can co-exist.
 
It's better to go to the link and watch the short video.

Bill is correct, as always.

BTW - that link, and that headline is from....FOXNATION.com!
4i6Ckte.gif
Actually Maher is wrong on this, Rose's poor performance notwithstanding; Maher's argument fails as a fallacy, a gross over-generalization of a complex religious, cultural, and social issue.

The vast majority of Muslims do not support the radical extremism practiced by the criminals and terrorists who are incidentally Muslim, nor does Islamic doctrine or dogma condone such practices – as indeed Islamic leaders around the world have condemned the violence.

Moreover, most of the practices that exist in the 'Islamic world,' such as the treatment of women and criminals, predate Islam, and reflect ancient cultural and social practices that are not necessarily Islamic.

The fact that there are millions of Muslims in North America, Europe, the Indian Subcontinent, and Southeast Asia who do not practice the violence and extremism of the radicals renders the notion that Islam is an 'evil religion' objectively incorrect.


Excellent!!!

tumblr_n1ubgkYN681s3y9slo3_500.gif


 
This thread illustrates so well that liberals have very diverse opinions which is one thing that sets them apart from conservatives. Whether the issue is race, religion, healthcare, or the economy, liberals have diverse views. That diversity is both their strength and their weakness.

Unlike many liberals, Bill Maher has little tolerance for Muslims because he has little tolerance for any religion. He hates Islam just as much as much as he hates Christianity. He has no favorites when it comes to religion.


It's certainly refreshing that we don't all share the same brain. :happy-1:
 
Even most Christians do not consider Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god."

I believe he was a Unitarian Universalist.
 
Christianity had its periods of murder and genocide to help it get to where it is now.

And yet, Christians mock Islam for doing the same.

Christianity is not held together by force but by love. That does not sound like Islam who apparently teaches that death comes to those who denounce Islam. I am not a scholar on Islam but everything I hear and see about Islam indicates fear not love.

The Pope no longer commands an army to bring people into line. People who are RCC do so because of love. This is the 21st century not the 15th like apparently many Muslims think.
 
I read that whole thing, only for you to say in your second post that there is a video on the link? I hate you! :D

On topic, I agree with Maher. :tongue:
 

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