Biggest Traitor in US History

[CatholicAtheist]

I would argue that Robert E. Lee was for the following reasons:

1. He rejected his US citizenship in order to join a rogue terrorist nation(little known fact, he lived out the remainder of his years on parole and never was given his citizenship back during his lifetime).

2. He burned American flags and fought under a terrorist nation's flag.

3. He fought to preserve the evil institution of chattel slavery and was a HUGE proponent of slavery.

4. He murdered hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, more than Hitler, OBL, and Saddam combined.

5. He encouraged and led hundreds of thousands of former Americans to join a rogue nation and fight for that nation against the USA.


IF anyone can name a bigger traitor with evidence attached, I would welcome it.

 

[Gunny]

I would argue that Robert E. Lee was for the following reasons:

1. He rejected his US citizenship in order to join a rogue terrorist nation(little known fact, he lived out the remainder of his years on parole and never was given his citizenship back during his lifetime).

2. He burned American flags and fought under a terrorist nation's flag.

3. He fought to preserve the evil institution of chattel slavery and was a HUGE proponent of slavery.

4. He murdered hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, more than Hitler, OBL, and Saddam combined.

5. He encouraged and led hundreds of thousands of former Americans to join a rogue nation and fight for that nation against the USA.


IF anyone can name a bigger traitor with evidence attached, I would welcome it.

You're a regular piece of work. he was nowhere near a traitor to his nation as you are factual history without a spin on it.

He could not be a traitor to a country he renounced his citizenship to. I'll bet you need a cool, soothing ointment after THAT one.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I would argue that Robert E. Lee was for the following reasons:

1. He rejected his US citizenship in order to join a rogue terrorist nation(little known fact, he lived out the remainder of his years on parole and never was given his citizenship back during his lifetime).

2. He burned American flags and fought under a terrorist nation's flag.

3. He fought to preserve the evil institution of chattel slavery and was a HUGE proponent of slavery.

4. He murdered hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, more than Hitler, OBL, and Saddam combined.

5. He encouraged and led hundreds of thousands of former Americans to join a rogue nation and fight for that nation against the USA.


IF anyone can name a bigger traitor with evidence attached, I would welcome it.

After the war no one was considered a traitor. So end of story.

 

[Gunny]

After the war no one was considered a traitor. So end of story.

By his standard all the Founding Fathers were traitors to our mother country in that they fomented rebellion against it and broke away by force of arms with a terrorist army.

This is just some knucklehead trying to stir up some shit.

 

[editec]

Benedict Arnold, I think.

He sold out his nation because he was angry with Continental Congress for not giving him a higher rank.

Robert E. Lee did committ treason, but I think his motives were not venal.

 

[jillian]

By his standard all the Founding Fathers were traitors to our mother country in that they fomented rebellion against it and broke away by force of arms with a terrorist army.

This is just some knucklehead trying to stir up some shit.

The difference between treason and revolution is generally who wins the war. Had the founding fathers lost, they WOULD have been traitors and hung by the Bits.

 

[Rhys]

3. He fought to preserve the evil institution of chattel slavery and was a HUGE proponent of slavery.

I thought he set his own slaves free. The notion 'treason' is not a useful one: you don't love people because you're told to, or feel loyalty to a state you don't want to belong to.

The believers in US Independence had been defended by a great deal of cash from British taxpayers and by the blood of British soldiers, but with the French and their allies defeated, why should they contribute to that cost? Obviously they were selfish and ungrateful, but how would it help to call them traitors to a King they didn't support? In the same way, all manner of Irishmen were hanged as 'traitors' over the years, though they'd sworn no oaths to the kings and queens of England - which would go for that Joyce for whom, I think, a contributor here names himself - an American citizen hanged as a traitor to Britain, 'Lord Haw-Haw'.

One of my ancestors, incidentally, was one of the biggest traitors in Welsh history, from one point of view. From mine, he supported those he liked and what he believed in, though I think he was wrong. Is 'traitor' really a useful term?

 

[editec]

The difference between treason and revolution is who wins the war. Had the founding fathers lost, they WOULD have been traitors and hung by the Bits.

True enough.

Treason, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

By calling Robert E. Lee a traitor, I am, of course, announcing my own opinion about that unfortuntate decicion of the South to declare war on the Republic.

By suggesting that his treason was not motivated for venal reasons, I am seeking to mitigate the nature of his treason, too.

I cannot say the same thing for ALL the leaders, generals or participants who fought for the South.

But I think he was a honorable man who did something dishonorable for all the right reasons... as he saw them.

It is NOT a black and white world.

It behooves us ALL to remember that fact.

 

[Reality]

By his standard all the Founding Fathers were traitors to our mother country in that they fomented rebellion against it and broke away by force of arms with a terrorist army.

This is just some knucklehead trying to stir up some shit.

Well the Brits did consider the seperationists as traitors.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Benedict Arnold, I think.

He sold out his nation because he was angry with Continental Congress for not giving him a higher rank.

Robert E. Lee did committ treason, but I think his motives were not venal.

It had more to do then rank. At the battle of Albany HE won the battle but Gates took the credit. Gates did that else where as well on a routine bases. Benedict got real pissed when Washington snubbed him though.

Doesn't change the fact he was a traitor and one of the worst, but claiming he just did it for a star is not true.

 

[CatholicAtheist]

Robert E Lee lived out the remainder of his life on parole and never was given his US citizenship back. Jefferson Davis served time in prison. Read a book Gunny other than "The South Was Right" or any other trash put out by neoConfederate scum.


And right you are, the founding fathers were considered traitors in England because they took up arms against the King.

Your ignorance is offensive.




BTW, I would like to see any other high ranking officer serving time in the Army currently renounce his commission and citizenship and then take up arms against America, I would wager to say that he would be considered a traitor by every American. To deny this is to live in fantasy neoConfederate scum land.

 

[editec]

It had more to do then rank. At the battle of Albany HE won the battle but Gates took the credit. Gates did that else where as well on a routine bases. Benedict got real pissed when Washington snubbed him though.

Doesn't change the fact he was a traitor and one of the worst, but claiming he just did it for a star is not true.

Yes, understood.

B.A, clearly had reason to be thoroughly annoyed.

He was cheated.

He was a heroic figure whose contributions to the cause of liberty were profound and completely unvalued by the Continental Congress, I totally agree with you.

But his betrayal of the revolution and his personal betray of Washington, who clearly supported him, was truly vile.

Additionally leaving poor noble Lt. Andrew to hang also dispicable.

I simply cannot think of any historic figure in American history who betrayed his country (and himself, too) in a more disgusting way than B.A.

 

[CatholicAtheist]

I can.


ROBERT E. LEE

 

[Gunny]

The difference between treason and revolution is generally who wins the war. Had the founding fathers lost, they WOULD have been traitors and hung by the Bits.

I am aware of that. Why this whole argument is just some disengenuous BS to stir up some shit, IMO.

 

[Gunny]

Well the Brits did consider the seperationists as traitors.

As Jillian said, it all depends on who wins who gets called what. It was true in the American Revolution and the US Civil War.

 

[AllieBaba]

And let's not forget the time-honored British method of eliminating those who offend the monarchs by labeling them as "traitors".

 

[Charles_Main]

You have to remember when Lee did what he did, most Americans at that time did not think of themselves as Americans, they thought of themselves as Virginians, or New Yorkers, or what ever. So lee thought he was just serving his state. that is how the vast majority of southerns thought of it. They fought to server the home states.

I would vote for Arnold myself.

 

[editec]

Of course, if we can all agree to other definitions for treason and traitor, I'll work with those, but here's what I think those words mean

from: treason - definition from dictionary.die.net


traitor n 1: someone who betrays his country by committing treason [syn: treasonist] 2: a person who says one thing and does another [syn: double-crosser, double-dealer, two-timer, betrayer]

treason n 1: a crime that undermines the offender's government [syn: high treason, lese majesty] 2: disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior [syn: subversiveness, traitorousness] 3: an act of deliberate betrayal [syn: treachery, betrayal, perfidy]




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[Gungnir]

We should observe, for a moment, the actions of Pausanias, Regent of Sparta. Here is a man who became ruler of Sparta after Leonidas died in battle at Thermopylae, and after his own father's short rule. Taking his position as Regent for the young heir of Leonidas, Pausanias would eventually direct the Greeks in action against the Persians; durring this time they were ousted from Greece and were being routed from the Hellespont and Ionia.

After the immediate threat of Persia was over, Pausanias becomes traitorous. In his attempt to subjugate the Greeks to his emperorship, Pausanias colludes with the Persians to become their agent. Here we can see a true act of treason, siding with foreigners over your own people. Pausanias is doubly damned for endangering his fellow Greeks with foreign swords for his personal gain.

Now consider Abraham Lincoln, he used recently arrived Irishmen as foot soldiers in the War Between the States. Does that qualify as treason? Well, in my opinion no.

A far more traitorous thing would be the importation of African Slaves, and the use of the fear of a Haitian style anarchic revolt to motivate an entire population to war.

If the misery of that war was tought more than the Holocaust and the 1960s, this country would be better. That war is a harsh lesson; endured by REAL Americans, learned by REAL Americans, and taught by REAL Americans. In it we see key factors for Human Dignity, for Tactics and Strategy, for History and Moral Philosophy, for Economics, for Family and Religion, and even for Vocational Training.

As for Robert E. Lee, considering the Mexican War, he had a duty to try to protect Virginia from the Federal Army after her actions. This was his primary concern.

I would name King George as traitor to his fellow people and subjects for the charges listed in the Declaration of Independence.

As for America's most nefarious traitor; I name Senator Edward Moore Kennedy for his support of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 and other scurrilous things.

 

[Charles_Main]

Of course, if we can all agree to other definitions for treason and traitor, I'll work with those, but here's what I think those words mean

from: treason - definition from dictionary.die.net


traitor n 1: someone who betrays his country by committing treason [syn: treasonist] 2: a person who says one thing and does another [syn: double-crosser, double-dealer, two-timer, betrayer]

treason n 1: a crime that undermines the offender's government [syn: high treason, lese majesty] 2: disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior [syn: subversiveness, traitorousness] 3: an act of deliberate betrayal [syn: treachery, betrayal, perfidy]




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By definition 2 just about every politician in DC today is a traitor.

Hang em all high!!