Bible criticism

[Meriweather]

Ok, so the if bible verses are not simplistic, then they are just plain wrong. Because as we all know the heaven and earth were not created in six days. Or six of Gods days which the bible says is six thousand years.

In ancient languages, day could be used as an idiom, meaning a span of time over which something took place--Something began, progressed, and came to fruition. Then, something else happened the next "day."

Try reading "day" as "span of time." In the first time span God created....; in the second time span, God created...

 

[Dajjal]

Ok, so the if bible verses are not simplistic, then they are just plain wrong. Because as we all know the heaven and earth were not created in six days. Or six of Gods days which the bible says is six thousand years.

In ancient languages, day could be used as an idiom, meaning a span of time over which something took place--Something began, progressed, and came to fruition. Then, something else happened the next "day."

Try reading "day" as "span of time." In the first time span God created....; in the second time span, God created...

We know from the following verse, one of God days is as a thousand years.

Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Besides Genesis is clear on the matter of day being divided from night ,and it mentions seasons, days and years.

Genesis 1.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

 

[Dajjal]

 

[Meriweather]

We know from the following verse, one of God days is as a thousand years.

Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Besides Genesis is clear on the matter of day being divided from night ,and it mentions seasons, days and years.

Genesis 1.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

The author of Genesis was focused on an entirely different point than was the author of 2 Peter. Attempting to use two different books by two different authors to make your case is like that (relatively) famous contradictory poem:

Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps,
cross-eyed mosquitoes and bow-legged ants,
I stand before you to sit behind you
to tell you something I know nothing about.
Next Thursday, which is Good Friday,
there's a Mother's Day meeting for fathers only;
wear your best clothes if you haven't any.
Please come if you can't; if you can, stay at home.
Admission is free, pay at the door;
pull up a chair and sit on the floor.
It makes no difference where you sit,
the man in the gallery's sure to spit.
The show is over, but before you go,
let me tell you a story I don't really know.
One bright day in the middle of the night,
two dead boys got up to fight.
(The blind man went to see fair play;
the mute man went to shout "hooray!")
Back to back they faced each other,
drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
and came and killed the two dead boys.
A paralyzed donkey passing by
kicked the blind man in the eye;
knocked him through a nine-inch wall,
into a dry ditch and drowned them all.
If you don't believe this lie is true,
ask the blind man; he saw it too,
through a knothole in a wooden brick wall.
And the man with no legs walked away.

What we want to study is what the author of Genesis wished to convey. Trying to turn this backwards into an entirely separate point being made by the writer of Peter is simply presenting us with an example of a backwards poem.

 

[Dajjal]

The author of Genesis was focused on an entirely different point than was the author of 2 Peter. Attempting to use two different books by two different authors to make your case is like that (relatively) famous contradictory poem:

Poetry aside, are you trying to tell us that the bible is a mish mash of writings by different authors produced over centuries ? Because I agree that is the case. But are you also saying this means the bible is not consistent in its meaning, and that it is contradictory? Because I would agree with that too.

 

[Dajjal]

What we want to study is what the author of Genesis wished to convey. Trying to turn this backwards into an entirely separate point being made by the writer of Peter is simply presenting us with an example of a backwards poem.

We are still left with Genesis, and the verse 1.14 clearly divides the day from the night. Then it goes on to separate the seasons, days and years. So we know it is talking about one day, not an undetermined time period.

Genesis 1.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

 

[Meriweather]

Poetry aside, are you trying to tell us that the bible is a mish mash of writings by different authors produced over centuries ? Because I agree that is the case. But are you also saying this means the bible is not consistent in its meaning, and that it is contradictory? Because I would agree with that too.

The Bible is a collection of writings by different authors produced over the centuries. No, I am not saying the Bible is not consistent in its meaning, I am saying that the different authors are addressing different issues, many unique, and need to be understood in the original context.

Just as several several witnesses to an accident will all give slightly different accounts, so do those who witness/experience a revelation of God. You will no more find a cookie-cutter replication of God in the Bible (or anywhere else) than you will find two siblings who will give you an exact replication in accounts of their parents.

 

[Meriweather]

We are still left with Genesis, and the verse 1.14 clearly divides the day from the night. Then it goes on to separate the seasons, days and years. So we know it is talking about one day, not an undetermined time period.

Genesis 1.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

So? The sun was shining, the sky was blue. I was blue, too.

Blue can have two different meanings. Day, in the original language, can also be used to convey different meanings. That is why it is vital to study words in the context in which they are used--not just in the context where they are used elsewhere.

 

[Dajjal]

Poetry aside, are you trying to tell us that the bible is a mish mash of writings by different authors produced over centuries ? Because I agree that is the case. But are you also saying this means the bible is not consistent in its meaning, and that it is contradictory? Because I would agree with that too.

The Bible is a collection of writings by different authors produced over the centuries. No, I am not saying the Bible is not consistent in its meaning, I am saying that the different authors are addressing different issues, many unique, and need to be understood in the original context.

Just as several several witnesses to an accident will all give slightly different accounts, so do those who witness/experience a revelation of God. You will no more find a cookie-cutter replication of God in the Bible (or anywhere else) than you will find two siblings who will give you an exact replication in accounts of their parents.

But factual statements, like the heaven and earth were created in six days, or that one of Gods days is a thousand years, are not changed by any context. They are either true or they are not true.

 

[Dajjal]

Day, in the original language, can also be used to convey different meanings.

You sound like a Muslim, they say the same thing about the Quran. They argue that a day means an undetermined time period to excuse the fact that the Quran copies the bible in saying the heaven and earth were created in six days.

I think you will find that many scholars agree with me the bible says the creation took place in six thousand years (six of Gods days). I am not on my own here. I can find many references from bible scholars.

 

[Meriweather]

But factual statements, like the heaven and earth were created in six days, or that one of Gods days is a thousand years, are not changed by any context. They are either true or they are not true.

Is, "It is raining cats and dogs" a factual statement? If one understands the context and idiom, it is quite factual. If one does not understand the context and the idiom, then it will probably be assumed that nothing else in that collection of books is factual either.

"To God, a single day is like a thousand years, and one year like a single day." That phrase has "idiom" written all over it. Just like "day" in the original language has "different meanings for different contexts" written all over it.

 

[Meriweather]

You sound like a Muslim, they say the same thing about the Quran. They argue that a day means an undetermined time period to excuse the fact that the Quran copies the bible in saying the heaven and earth were created in six days.

I think you will find that many scholars agree with me the bible says the creation took place in six thousand years (six of Gods days). I am not on my own here. I can find many references from bible scholars.

No, I am not a Muslim, but I am not surprised Muslims concur. You see, Hebrew and other ancient, Middle Eastern languages have a common denominator that English does not. English speaks in abstracts, whereas many ancient languages are more representational. For example, in English, we might read, "God was angry." If the Hebrew were more precisely translated, we would read, "God's nostril's widened/flared." This would bring about a debate whether God has nostrils, which has little to do with the point. The point is that Hebrew is very different from English. Whereas English speaks in abstracts we all understand, Hebrew paints a picture--is more visual. The word for day can also indicate a specific time span where things happen.

As for scholars...I have a very good friend who home schooled her daughter and labels her daughter as a scholar. I have read many essays. The high school essay from this scholar, had I not been told, would have placed in a stack of fifth grade essays. When someone claims the label, "scholar" it is well to investigate just where they got their education. Many "scholars" dismiss evolution, moon landings, etc. Who/what institution taught them? And from who/where did these people/institutions pick up their facts?

My degree is in journalism. Back then we were taught to verify any fact from three original sources. I strive to do that in my Bible studies as well.

 

[Dajjal]

Here is an article defining the use of the word ' day' in the bible.

The Meaning of "Day" in Genesis | The Institute for Creation Research

Here is an article about the Hebrew word yom , and its context

http://creationtoday.org/the-hebrew-yom-taking-one-day-at-a-time/

The Hebrew yom occurs 2,282 times outside Genesis 1. It occurs 359 times with a number outside Genesis 1. Some of these occurrences use cardinal numbers (one, two, three, etc.) and some use ordinal numbers (first, second, third, etc.). However, in all 359 cases, the context clearly shows that a 24-hour day is being referenced.

Yom occurs 19 times outside Genesis 1, together with either the word “morning” or “evening.” In all 19 cases, a 24-hour day is clearly intended.

The words “morning” and “evening” occur together, without “day” 38 times outside Genesis 1. Each of these occurrences refers to a literal 24-hour day.

Finally, the Hebrew yom occurs with the word “night” 53 times outside Genesis 1. Guess what! Each of these occurrences refers to a 24-hour day.

 

[Dajjal]

Does Genesis chapter 1 mean literal 24-hour days?

 

[Meriweather]

Here is an article defining the use of the word ' day' in the bible.

The Meaning of "Day" in Genesis | The Institute for Creation Research

Here is an article about the Hebrew word yom , and its context

http://creationtoday.org/the-hebrew-yom-taking-one-day-at-a-time/

The Hebrew yom occurs 2,282 times outside Genesis 1. It occurs 359 times with a number outside Genesis 1. Some of these occurrences use cardinal numbers (one, two, three, etc.) and some use ordinal numbers (first, second, third, etc.). However, in all 359 cases, the context clearly shows that a 24-hour day is being referenced.

Yom occurs 19 times outside Genesis 1, together with either the word “morning” or “evening.” In all 19 cases, a 24-hour day is clearly intended.

The words “morning” and “evening” occur together, without “day” 38 times outside Genesis 1. Each of these occurrences refers to a literal 24-hour day.

Finally, the Hebrew yom occurs with the word “night” 53 times outside Genesis 1. Guess what! Each of these occurrences refers to a 24-hour day.

You have got to be kidding! Found in 1972, IRC came with an agenda. It tried to offer its version of "science classes" but had to close down because officials declined to accredit IRC's version of science. It then turned to its version of theology.

Over eight hundred years ago, long before modern science, Jewish rabbis were discussing how aspects of the Book of Genesis could not, should not be taken literally.

Further, even in Genesis, "Yom" is also translated as, "In the course of time..." (Genesis 4:3). In Kings "Yom" is used to describe a 40-year time span Solomon reigned over Jerusalem. Finally, take a look at Isaiah 30:8, where "Yom" is used to indicate forever.

Investigate your sources and check them against original Hebrew sources. It won't take long for you to notice IRC is at best in error, or at worst, deliberately being deceptive.

 

[foggedinn]

Adam and Eve had access to the Tree of Life in the garden. They disobeyed and were cast out. They carried out a sack of the fruit and passed them down to the patriarchs. The sack was empty shortly after Noah.
Of coarse he lived 950 years.

 

[MaryL]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. So here is a thread to dismantle the bible and prove it cannot be from God, and it has not been preserved unchanged.
I will be posting many links and doing some cut and paste jobs, because I am no bible expert, but I know a lot of work has been done on this by others.

The first point I would like to raise is the age of Noah and other so called prophets. The bible says Noah lived to be 950 years old, but I read somewhere that this is now believed to be a mistake in the translation of the numbers from an early bible, by a scribe that did not understand the numbering system.
I will research this and post links.

To be going on with here are a couple of links to critical pages.

Bible Babble - The Holy Bible and it's Errors, Contradictions, and so on.

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

Anyone here actually try to READ the Bible? It isn't even great fiction, it doesn't have a good narrative, overall logic fails. Hard to follow, ambiguous and BORING, an epic fail . We base a religion on that claptrap? I know, I know, we do. But Islam, that's the major epic fail, suicide bombers and murder innocent people for...THAT?

 

[hobelim]

As I have already explained, the creation account is not about the creation of the earth and sky

So lets get this straight; The creation myth is not about the creation. It does not matter if it gets the facts wrong.
Only the people who wrote it can understand what they meant. The rest of us cannot.This must include you, as you include yourself among us lesser mortals.

So this means there is no point in anyone reading the bible because it is beyond comprehension.

That supports my argument that it is not the words of God.

I said the creation myth is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet, plants, animals or the first humans.

Whats so hard to comprehend about a talking serpent?

How many time in your own life have you described another person as a snake, a dog, sheep, worm, pig, or jackass?

Were you suggesting that animals can talk?

Beyond comprehension?

Are you really that dense?

 

[yiostheoy]

...

Whats so hard to comprehend about a talking serpent?

How many time in your own life have you described another person as a snake, a dog, sheep, worm, pig, or jackass?

Were you suggesting that animals can talk?

Beyond comprehension?

Are you really that dense?

It goes to show that Eve was schizophrenic and was probably talking to Adam's penis at night.

 

[yiostheoy]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. So here is a thread to dismantle the bible and prove it cannot be from God, and it has not been preserved unchanged.
I will be posting many links and doing some cut and paste jobs, because I am no bible expert, but I know a lot of work has been done on this by others.

The first point I would like to raise is the age of Noah and other so called prophets. The bible says Noah lived to be 950 years old, but I read somewhere that this is now believed to be a mistake in the translation of the numbers from an early bible, by a scribe that did not understand the numbering system.
I will research this and post links.

To be going on with here are a couple of links to critical pages.

Bible Babble - The Holy Bible and it's Errors, Contradictions, and so on.

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

Anyone here actually try to READ the Bible? It isn't even great fiction, it doesn't have a good narrative, overall logic fails. Hard to follow, ambiguous and BORING, an epic fail . We base a religion on that claptrap? I know, I know, we do. But Islam, that's the major epic fail, suicide bombers and murder innocent people for...THAT?

I have read it cover to cover several times. I still enjoy it.

I treat most of it like fiction however because over the millennia it obviously got enhanced with the retelling.