Bible criticism

[Meriweather]

"I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it."

Yes, people have been tired of that for some 2000 years now.

Stop listening to the declarations about burning in hell. The Biblical message is the exact opposite.

 

[Dajjal]

The Bible is a vast collection of literature, history, and philosophy that addresses people's experiences of God and of God's interaction with mankind

Maybe you should have said," God's 'supposed' interaction with mankind". Rather than stating it as a fact.

As it happens I think there may be a God, but I do not believe he did anything as reported in the bible.

No, I shouldn't have said, "supposed." God is more than just metaphor. If you don't believe He did anything in the Biblical accounts, then why read the Bible? What about the people in the Bible? Do you believe they existed or did the things the Bible describes?

I am reading the bible to apply logic to it and show it is not from God, therefore we need not fear hellfire.

I don't think any of the old testament characters really existed. I think its all stories made up by early scribes to promote their tribe, which became the Jews. I do not personally believe in the so called miracles of Jesus either.
I think there probably was a man called Jesus, but I think most of the new testament too is fabrication.

 

[BreezeWood]

and for those who find understanding with the Almighty why then is theirs an excuse for not rendering a belief in the unverified bible when no discernible religion exists in that document.

I am not sure I have a correct understanding of what you are saying. The Bible is a vast collection of literature, history, and philosophy that addresses people's experiences of God and of God's interaction with mankind. Some religions have their roots in these accounts.

It is also true that some individuals and some denominations choose to use the Bible as a bludgeon to force others into their way of thinking. What we are seeing in this thread is an individual who has elected, it seems, to turn and use the same bludgeon used on him to bludgeon others.

.

The Bible is a vast collection of literature, history, and philosophy that addresses people's experiences of God and of God's interaction with mankind. Some religions have their roots in these accounts.

... Some religions have their roots in these accounts.


the three desert religions ...

so you are saying the bible does not contain a religion prescribed by the Almighty but only the interpretations by others of what that may be.


* and would note, the interpretation from the spoken religion derived from the parable of Noah does include the religion as prescribed by the Almighty to be the Triumph of Good vs Evil being required as inclusive for all of humanity, exclusive of an individuals determination, as the Final Judgement.

either all will prevail or all will fail, together.

.

 

[Dajjal]

"I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it."

Yes, people have been tired of that for some 2000 years now.

Stop listening to the declarations about burning in hell. The Biblical message is the exact opposite.

Tell that to Jeremiah, whose endless bible thumping threads about hell are the reason I started this thread as an antidote.

 

[Meriweather]

I am reading the bible to apply logic to it and show it is not from God, therefore we need not fear hellfire.

I don't think any of the old testament characters really existed. I think its all stories made up by early scribes to promote their tribe, which became the Jews. I do not personally believe in the so called miracles of Jesus either.
I think there probably was a man called Jesus, but I think most of the new testament too is fabrication.

It is from God--with the message we need not fear hell fire. As the Bible points out, those who have ears ought to hear. Why did you swallow the hell fire interpretation in the first place? I grew up in the Catholic Church, and in all my years as a Catholic have heard only three homilies on hell versus the thousand or more instructing us on God's love, goodness, mercy, forgiveness, help, etc.--all backed up by Old and New Testament scripture passages.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And, for the record, there are zero contradictions and literary flaws in any of the books of the Old and New Testaments;

101 Contradictions in the Bible.

Took the very first one:

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

• God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
• Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

Now let's see:
1 Chronicles 2:1-1
These were the sons of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun,

So where does it say anything about Satan ordering a census? You believe stupid web lies because you do not want to face the truth. Your hate has consumed your ability to think.

 

[Meriweather]

... Some religions have their roots in these accounts.


the three desert religions ...

so you are saying the bible does not contain a religion prescribed by the Almighty but only the interpretations by others of what that may be.


* and would note, the interpretation from the spoken religion derived from the parable of Noah does include the religion as prescribed by the Almighty to be the Triumph of Good vs Evil being required as inclusive for all of humanity, exclusive of an individuals determination, as the Final Judgement.

either all will prevail or all will fail, together.

.

The religion God/Scripture calls for is to place God and the ways of God above all else--and to love our fellowman as we love ourselves. We have a choice to choose good and draw ever closer to God; or, we have the choice to turn from God's ways to evil ways--which will be defeated. God does not/will not force anyone to exist in His presence. And yes, goodness overcomes evil.

The final judgement is a true judgement where our true motives will be revealed. Some of what we told ourselves we were doing with altruistic motives, will reveal more selfish motives. This is not a bad thing. We are told that which we do with pure motives will stand like gold tested in fire; those things we did with ulterior motives will be blown away much like chaff in the wind.

I do not hold a universal position because I believe everyone must choose and there is the possibility of some choosing evil over good. However, optimist that I am, I like to think even if the possibility exists to choose evil, the likelihood is that all will choose God and love.

 

[Weatherman2020]

as I said, all of the contradictions in the Bible are not mistakes or evidence that its all bunch of crap but like giant X's on a treasure map they mark a place where something of great value is buried and hidden.

So all the contradictions are not mistakes, but evidence of some deep underlying meaning.

Why next you will be arguing that Black is really White.

I am sorry but my reading of Genesis leads me to the conclusion it is made up stories that are nothing but bunk.

I certainly understand why you or anyone would arrive at that conclusion. It used to be my conclusion for decades, since grade school, in part because believers claimed that it was without contradictions, should be taken literally, and because I could not make any sense of the stories. Seemed easy enough to think it was all just bunk as if that what was intended by the authors.. How could anyone over the age of 8 "just believe" that angels carry people by their hair while flying through the sky.

The contradictions were obvious and what was expected to just be accepted and believed by faith was irrational. For instance, in the gospel of John, "how can he give us his flesh to eat", to me seemed like a perfectly reasonable objection to what Jesus allegedly said. But just a little further on in the story, john 16:25 Jesus said, " till now I have been using figures of speech." Jesus himself telling the reader that what he said should not be taken literally.

What this did to me was alert me to the fact that everything that Jesus said before that, I will give you living water, I am living bread, I have come down from heaven, eat my flesh, etc., all have deeper meaning.

Even the fact that the beginning of John resembles the story of creation where as we discussed before lights in the firmament of heaven divide the day from the night, just like Jesus said he was a light and came to bring division shows that these contradictions were meant to be noticed and were deliberately included for the specific purpose of inspiring the deep thought required to solve a riddle.

Don't be lazy. Noticing the contradictions is just the beginning of the road that leads to comprehension.

So far I have only been reading Genesis, and not the new testament. But I am aware that too is full of problems. For example at Matthew 26 .39 Jesus is by himself talking to God. So there was no one there to report what he said because the disciples were asleep.

My wife got up to go to the bathroom last night while I slept. How do I know that's? She mentioned it.

Your hate has you acting stupid silly.

 

[Meriweather]

Tell that to Jeremiah, whose endless bible thumping threads about hell are the reason I started this thread as an antidote.

I rarely spend time in any thread by Jeremiah. The ignorance in those threads is mind boggling--and ultimately boring. So, when I'm bored to tears already I'll stop by to cause a bit of havoc just to liven things up.

 

[Penelope]

I believe in the JEPD hypothesis of the bible. As we know Israel and Judea were not buddy buddy. Isra el, followers of EL, and Yahweh belonged to Judea. There maybe some truth in it, the fighting, the Babylonians capture of Judea and Assyrian capture of Israel. Its not a history book (or collection of books )and remember those back in day didn't have the bible to go by. They were told what to do by the Priests. Some of the books even have more than one author. No one back then sat down and read it like we do today. The story of the exodus is what the Jews tell during Passover, not the history of the Hebrew people. Its a story, lore , handed down and exaggerated. The prophets are suppose to be close to God, and are advisors to the Kings, they make short term predictions are not fortune tellers. There were many Gods and the creator of the universe didn't have a conversation with anyone.

I mean Solomon's mother use to be married to a Hittite, imagine that, who David got rid of. Guess that would make Solomon a Hittite.

 

[Penelope]

Ezekiel 16New International Version (NIV)
Jerusalem as an Adulterous Wife

Ezekiel 16English Standard Version (ESV)
The Lord's Faithless Bride

16 Again the word of the Lord came to me: 2 Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations, 3 and say, Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: Your origin and your birth are of the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 And as for your birth, on the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to cleanse you, nor rubbed with salt, nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. 5 No eye pitied you, to do any of these things to you out of compassion for you,but you were cast out on the open field, for you were abhorred, on the day that you were born.

 

[BreezeWood]

... Some religions have their roots in these accounts.


the three desert religions ...

so you are saying the bible does not contain a religion prescribed by the Almighty but only the interpretations by others of what that may be.


* and would note, the interpretation from the spoken religion derived from the parable of Noah does include the religion as prescribed by the Almighty to be the Triumph of Good vs Evil being required as inclusive for all of humanity, exclusive of an individuals determination, as the Final Judgement.

either all will prevail or all will fail, together.

.

The religion God/Scripture calls for is to place God and the ways of God above all else--and to love our fellowman as we love ourselves. We have a choice to choose good and draw ever closer to God; or, we have the choice to turn from God's ways to evil ways--which will be defeated. God does not/will not force anyone to exist in His presence. And yes, goodness overcomes evil.

The final judgement is a true judgement where our true motives will be revealed. Some of what we told ourselves we were doing with altruistic motives, will reveal more selfish motives. This is not a bad thing. We are told that which we do with pure motives will stand like gold tested in fire; those things we did with ulterior motives will be blown away much like chaff in the wind.

I do not hold a universal position because I believe everyone must choose and there is the possibility of some choosing evil over good. However, optimist that I am, I like to think even if the possibility exists to choose evil, the likelihood is that all will choose God and love.

.

The final judgement is a true judgement where our true motives will be revealed.

the Final Judgement will be for humanity, not an individual - all will either perish together or be granted Admission to the Everlasting however differently can the parable of Noah be interpreted.

and why christianity is doomed to failure - Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani

And yes, goodness overcomes evil.

that's why they had to be destroyed - before the Final Judgment to give humanity a second chance ... dream world of a christian.

.

 

[tyroneweaver]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. i

my my who's forcing you read our threads.

 

[irosie91]

I believe in the JEPD hypothesis of the bible. As we know Israel and Judea were not buddy buddy. Isra el, followers of EL, and Yahweh belonged to Judea. There maybe some truth in it, the fighting, the Babylonians capture of Judea and Assyrian capture of Israel. Its not a history book (or collection of books )and remember those back in day didn't have the bible to go by. They were told what to do by the Priests. Some of the books even have more than one author. No one back then sat down and read it like we do today. The story of the exodus is what the Jews tell during Passover, not the history of the Hebrew people. Its a story, lore , handed down and exaggerated. The prophets are suppose to be close to God, and are advisors to the Kings, they make short term predictions are not fortune tellers. There were many Gods and the creator of the universe didn't have a conversation with anyone.

I mean Solomon's mother use to be married to a Hittite, imagine that, who David got rid of. Guess that would make Solomon a Hittite.

Please note-----Penelope stated that she never read the bible--

 

[BreezeWood]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. i

my my who's forcing you read our threads.

.

my my who's forcing you read our threads.

why log in at all ... entertainment value if nothing else.

.

 

[Dajjal]

Stop listening to the declarations about burning in hell. The Biblical message is the exact opposite.[/QUOTE]


Mark 9.43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mathew 25.41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Dajjal]

Meriweather, this is just one bible quote about eternal hell for everyone not in the book of life.

Revelations. 20:10 to 15

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[irosie91]

Stop listening to the declarations about burning in hell. The Biblical message is the exact opposite.

Mark 9.43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mathew 25.41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:[/QUOTE]


Dajal cool it-----the book of Ezekiel is a manifestion of mushroom hallucinations written in the sick environment
of BABYLON-------Mathew and the "john" who wrote the book of revulsions reflect the filth of Roman "theology" and "culture" ---albeit written greek which at that time----in roman
"culture" greek was considered a fancy language. Mathew and John were both swept up in the stench of roman "culture" and violence when they did their writing. Ezekiel was in Babylon.
The environments were enough to confuse anyone. Daniel
was written in Babylon too. -----As for Ezra and Jeremiah----times were even tougher.

 

[irosie91]

PS---no one is entirely clear on who mark was

 

[Dajjal]

Biblical Criticism