Beyond the reach of majorities ...

[Oddball]

On the other hand, if the Dems do NOT impeach - while knowing Moscow Mitch will never remove Trump (nor confirm a pro Roe Justice even if a majority elects a potus who appoints) - a potus who sought a quid pro to dig up dirt on an opponent … why do we even have elections?

You're imputing a motivation that is less than probably factual.

 

[dblack]

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?

I don't know who you're talking to, or what you're talking about. HINT: just because someone opposes Trump's circus doesn't mean they are a "progressive".

Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

Yes. Republicans have bailed on limited government in order to win. That's the point I'm making. Thanks for confirming.

You fence-sitters are almost always semi-progressive, you typically lean way left on most matters and your history of posts proves it.

I'm not interested in your tortured conceptions of left and "right. Progressivism, however, is pretty well-defined. I considered trying to explain it to you, to show you that I am, in fact, the exact opposite of a progressive. But I'm just not in the mood to work that hard. Ask someone you trust, who isn't an idiot, to explain it to you.

 

[dblack]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

I really hate agreeing with you, C.

 

[bendog]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

Sadly, there are no actual conservatives in the Federal government anymore, conservatives who consistently applied the dogma of ‘limited government.’

The last actual conservative was Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy.

Incorrectly labeled as a ‘swing-voter,’ Kennedy was in fact nothing of the sort. Kennedy was a conservative but not a rightwing ideologue; his consistent application of the doctrine of limited government resulted in the incorrect perception that he voted ‘liberal’ on some cases and ‘conservative’ on others.

For example, Kennedy consistently ruled in support of limited government with regard to political speech (Citizens United) and the regulation of firearms (DC v Heller); he likewise ruled in favor of limited government concerning the right to privacy (Planned Parenthood v. Casey) and the right of same-sex couples to access marriage law (Obergefell v. Hodges).

The notion of ‘limited government’ is far more than just ‘deregulation’ and unbridled capitalism, it’s also opposing the state seeking to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law and opposing the state denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law – the latter two examples being the more egregious examples of rightwing hypocrisy.

Exactly so. Will writes about something he calls hard v. soft libertarianism. hard libertarianism is hard to make work because it depends essentially on self-policing and some consensus on social goods like education or roads. Soft libertarianism is more about gays forming unions with gays under their own terms, and pollution regulation, and perhaps (imo) economic rather than criminal coercion is convincing women to carry fetuses to term.

 

[bendog]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

I really hate agreeing with you, C.

but we could at least have a maj consensus on what govt may regulate. Student debt. What student loans can cover. Pollution levels.

But a potus should not be able to wage war or even hold up military aid or even build walls without some consensus. And I believe society still has the ability to reach consensus when REAL facts are before them. The last potus election is an anomaly. Both maj candidates were morally and ethically unacceptable and could not be trusted to put the nation's interest above self.

Not to be overtly political, but a minority refused to even do DACA when congress and 60% approved. But Obama was elitist too on issues of for policy and policing in America. Now the current potus uses exec power to do what his OWN party (sort of) won't approve. We are ruling by a minority to enact laws the const reserves to the maj.

But THAT is not Will's thesis about increasing govt intrusion.

 

[g5000]

George Will nails it:

That's a great interview. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

[g5000]

Will's "struggle of principle" is to talk big, then cave in right on cue....Like I said, he's the avatar for the gutless pushover republican, who keeps his place lest he lose his standing with The Big Clique.

I'm not really interested in debating Will's personal virtues. He's making an important argument here, one that Republicans have all but forgotten.

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

Yes, we understand you prefer an illiterate bully who talks and tantrums like a seven year old, and who talks out of both sides of his mouth at your level.

We get it.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

George Will is the avatar of the disconnected gutless RINO and warmongering neocon.....Twaddling, stuffed shirt drips like him are the exact reason we got Trump.

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

 

[dblack]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

I really hate agreeing with you, C.

but we could at least have a maj consensus on what govt may regulate. Student debt. What student loans can cover. Pollution levels.

Pollution regulation protects the commons - a genuine responsibility of government. But the Constitution gives Congress no authority over student loans. Neither is subject to majority rule.

But a potus should not be able to wage war or even hold up military aid or even build walls without some consensus. And I believe society still has the ability to reach consensus when REAL facts are before them. The last potus election is an anomaly. Both maj candidates were morally and ethically unacceptable and could not be trusted to put the nation's interest above self.

The lack of consensus is the biggest dysfunction of our government, in my view. Even worse than the general erosion of Constitutional limits. Foisting major change on society with a 51% majority is always asking for trouble, and will almost always create more problems than it solves.

 

[whitehall]

Anybody can post and run a video and pronounce it as "nailed" but few lefties have the willingness or the ability to summarize and defend the point. This is one of those times.

 

[dblack]

Anybody can post and run a video and pronounce it as "nailed" but few lefties have the willingness or the ability to summarize and defend the point. This is one of those times.

IOW - "Will uses too many big words. Gimme the fifth grade version."

 

[impuretrash]

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

What have establishment conservatives actually "conserved"? Look around you at clown world 2019. Tradition, morality, culture. It's all gone.

 

[Oddball]

What have establishment conservatives actually "conserved"? Look around you at clown world 2019. Tradition, morality, culture. It's all gone.

Fuel, on the road to serfdom.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb...if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?
Can your dumbass connect the dots?
You g5000 or dblack ?

 

[g5000]

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb...if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?
Can your dumbass connect the dots?
You g5000 or dblack ?

The vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, are hard working, Christian, and family oriented. But you had to require them to be "white", and your idiotic fucktard racism has really screwed the pooch. Those immigrants are natural fits for conservatism, but racist ***** like you are tolerated in the party and so the GOP has fucked itself right up the ass by alienating those good people and coddling dying-out shits like you.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb

Well, don't strain yourself, as you're one of the dumbest motherfuckers on this board.

if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?

See? Arguments with no bearing to reality whatsoever.

 

[dblack]

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb...if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?
Can your dumbass connect the dots?
You g5000 or dblack ?

Doh! You dumbed it down too far! Your post is unintelligible. Try again.

 

[BrokeLoser]

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb...if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?
Can your dumbass connect the dots?
You g5000 or dblack ?

The vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, are hard working, Christian, and family oriented. But you had to require them to be "white", and your idiotic fucktard racism has really screwed the pooch. Those immigrants are natural fits for conservatism, but racist ***** like you are tolerated in the party and so the GOP has fucked itself right up the ass by alienating those good people and coddling dying-out shits like you.

haha...you dumbmotherfuckers keep parroting the same tired bullshit...debunked over and over and over again. All one has to do is a little exploring on google to confirm they are disgusting human cockroaches.
You filthy whacks have a very twisted view of what makes one 'fit for conservatism"......Free enlightenment awaits you at www.google.com...google search the following...
Welfare statistics by race
Crime statistics by race
Incarceration statistics by race
High school dropout statistics by race
Child birth out of wedlock by race
Abortion statistics by race
Wetbacks are far from conservative just as the statistics prove. Sucks for you huh?

 

[whitehall]

Anybody can post and run a video and pronounce it as "nailed" but few lefties have the willingness or the ability to summarize and defend the point. This is one of those times.

IOW - "Will uses too many big words. Gimme the fifth grade version."

Actually the burden is on you to give us any version including the highest grade you might have reached in grammar school.

 

[BrokeLoser]

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the **** out.

So, you're saying conservatives don't want to stand by the tenets of conservatism because... Democrats?? You've gone full retard.

Let me dumb this down for the really dumb...if conservatives imported 100 million self sufficient, self funded, white Christians do you think the Party Of Filth And Foreigners could run on free shit, kill the unborn and chicks with dicks and ever have a chance at winning a national election?
Can your dumbass connect the dots?
You g5000 or dblack ?

Doh! You dumbed it down too far! Your post is unintelligible. Try again.

Again...playing stupid is not a refutation.
Which part has you confused? I'll have my 11 year old nephew log in and explain it to you.