Beyond the reach of majorities ...

[Third Party]

George Will nails it:

I thought that old fart moved to France

 

[dblack]

Will's "struggle of principle" is to talk big, then cave in right on cue....Like I said, he's the avatar for the gutless pushover republican, who keeps his place lest he lose his standing with The Big Clique.

I'm not really interested in debating Will's personal virtues. He's making an important argument here, one that Republicans have all but forgotten.

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

So it's all about style?

As I said, I doubt there's anything in there you haven't heard. It the same old argument for limiting government, limiting the scope and reach of "majority rule". You know, the argument that Trump Republicans really want to avoid.

 

[BrokeLoser]

George Will is the avatar of the disconnected gutless RINO and warmongering neocon.....Twaddling, stuffed shirt drips like him are the exact reason we got Trump.

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

 

[dblack]

George Will is the avatar of the disconnected gutless RINO and warmongering neocon.....Twaddling, stuffed shirt drips like him are the exact reason we got Trump.

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

 

[BrokeLoser]

George Will is the avatar of the disconnected gutless RINO and warmongering neocon.....Twaddling, stuffed shirt drips like him are the exact reason we got Trump.

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the fuck out.

 

[Oddball]

Will's "struggle of principle" is to talk big, then cave in right on cue....Like I said, he's the avatar for the gutless pushover republican, who keeps his place lest he lose his standing with The Big Clique.

I'm not really interested in debating Will's personal virtues. He's making an important argument here, one that Republicans have all but forgotten.

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

So it's all about style?

As I said, I doubt there's anything in there you haven't heard. It the same old argument for limiting government, limiting the scope and reach of "majority rule". You know, the argument that Trump Republicans really want to avoid.

Oh, they've been talking about it -including shills like Will- for as long as I've been paying attention, but they've never ever actually done anything about it.....They have never really meant it.

And the real hell of it all is that prop players like Will will always turn their guns against people like Ron Paul, who really do mean it....He's as big a poseur as anyone in the GOP.

 

[dblack]

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?

I don't know who you're talking to, or what you're talking about. HINT: just because someone opposes Trump's circus doesn't mean they are a "progressive".

Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the fuck out.

Yes. Republicans have bailed on limited government in order to win. That's the point I'm making. Thanks for confirming.

 

[dblack]

I'm not really interested in debating Will's personal virtues. He's making an important argument here, one that Republicans have all but forgotten.

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

So it's all about style?

As I said, I doubt there's anything in there you haven't heard. It the same old argument for limiting government, limiting the scope and reach of "majority rule". You know, the argument that Trump Republicans really want to avoid.

Oh, they've been talking about it -including shills like Will- for as long as I've been paying attention, but they've never ever actually done anything about it.....They have never really meant it.

And the real hell of it all is that prop players like Will will always turn their guns against people like Ron Paul, who really do mean it....He's as big a poseur as anyone in the GOP.

And Trumpsters don't even try to pose as a limited government advocates. I guess that's better in your view?? If we can't have liberty, let's go all in on fascism! Go team!

 

[bendog]

George Will is the avatar of the disconnected gutless RINO and warmongering neocon.....Twaddling, stuffed shirt drips like him are the exact reason we got Trump.

Disagree. He's consistently argued against the neo-cons. Not sure where you get the warmongering thing. I don't agree with all of his views, but he's a far better representative for conservative/libertarian views than anyone supporting Trump.

The reason we got Trump is because the Republicans have joined the majoritarian, government-is-everything mindset of Democrats. The slack-jawed, TV-watching rank and file of the party believe - exactly as the Democrats do - that the key to changing society for the better is government. They wanted a savior and they got a huckster, which is what you always get when you ask for a savior.

Bullshit. Will is a pompous ass who thinks he's the smartest person in the world. He skirts around the core of every issue so he can change his commentary. A master of circular logic so he's never sitting where he would take a bullet in a circular firing squad.

BINGO
That's exactly why so many fence-sitters connect well with Will...Like Will, they are all the smartest guys in the room at all times...way too smart for the duopoly, way too smart to cast a meaningful vote, way too smart for religion and way too smart to pick a side when it's time to do so.

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?
Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the fuck out.

you got the wrong guy there, lady. LOL

 

[g5000]

George Will is one of the greatest political scientists of our time.

The Trumptards may like to know he is opposed to the impeachment of Trump.

 

[Oddball]

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

So it's all about style?

As I said, I doubt there's anything in there you haven't heard. It the same old argument for limiting government, limiting the scope and reach of "majority rule". You know, the argument that Trump Republicans really want to avoid.

Oh, they've been talking about it -including shills like Will- for as long as I've been paying attention, but they've never ever actually done anything about it.....They have never really meant it.

And the real hell of it all is that prop players like Will will always turn their guns against people like Ron Paul, who really do mean it....He's as big a poseur as anyone in the GOP.

And Trumpsters don't even try to pose as a limited government advocates.

No argument there...Populists have no track record of ever doing that.

I guess that's better in your view?? If we can't have liberty, let's go all in on fascism! Go team!

My view is that The State is never willingly going to limit itself....Just look at the collective shit attack that they've pitched over the fact that someone who isn't in their Big Club, who has few if any designs on shrinking it, has seized its levers of power.

Liberty has been lost and stolen, and the thieves are never going to give it back....Personally, I'm doing my best to insulate myself and family from the inevitable collapse...It's all that's really left.

 

[bendog]

Care to give me the Cliff's Notes version of the argument?...Listening to that milquetoast, effete, candy assed sellout makes me physically nauseous.

Nah. It's all stuff you've heard before. Even if you've forgotten.

I got as far as the stuff about centralizing power with the executive, which has been going on for over a century, before I couldn't anymore take Will's famous borderline condescending professorial tone...Nobody cares when their team's boy is acting like the autocrat...No news there...Is there anything else in it there I that didn't already know?

So it's all about style?

As I said, I doubt there's anything in there you haven't heard. It the same old argument for limiting government, limiting the scope and reach of "majority rule". You know, the argument that Trump Republicans really want to avoid.

Oh, they've been talking about it -including shills like Will- for as long as I've been paying attention, but they've never ever actually done anything about it.....They have never really meant it.

And the real hell of it all is that prop players like Will will always turn their guns against people like Ron Paul, who really do mean it....He's as big a poseur as anyone in the GOP.

And Trumpsters don't even try to pose as a limited government advocates. I guess that's better in your view?? If we can't have liberty, let's go all in on fascism! Go team!

Trump's not a conservative, and never has been. The pity is neither was W.

but beyond that, the death of compromise in congress forces more things to exec orders. That's a trend, back at least to Clinton, but accelerating. The question is whether the Sup Ct will apply the same deference to the dems as it will to the gop in terms of just leaving the potus alone to basically legislate in congress's vacuum

THAT is different from Will's general assault on congress empowering the executive to empower bureaucrats to make regulatory rules that at least sometimes should be actual laws … or perhaps there shouldn't be regulation of the activity. See, e.g. transgender bathrooms. but in other cases Will is ok with generally regulating pollution … with the gop and dems to differ on degree.

And lastly that's all different from Trump using Ghouliani to conduct a shadow for policy for illegal ends such as drumming up dirt on Biden.

 

[g5000]

George Will on Trump in the video: "This is a President who believes in protectionism which is everything conservatism isn't. Government telling people what they can buy, in what quantities, and at what prices. It's hard to get bigger, bossier government than that. Protectionism doesn't give rise to crony capitalism, it is in its genesis crony capitalism."

BINGO!

 

[bendog]

George Will is one of the greatest political scientists of our time.

The Trumptards may like to know he is opposed to the impeachment of Trump.

Right. But that's not an excusing Trump's actions. It's about the political process. Will may a bit late to this issue. I really don't recall where he came down on Clinton

 

[BrokeLoser]

Like I said, Republicans really want to avoid talking about limited government. Better to focus on personal attacks and skip over the party's complete lack of principle.

Aren't you semi-progressives always talking about the importance of 'CHANGE' and 'moving with the times'?

I don't know who you're talking to, or what you're talking about. HINT: just because someone opposes Trump's circus doesn't mean they are a "progressive".

Do you really see an old school philosophy of limited government selling to the masses? UNFORTUNATELY that ship sailed long ago...you will have to let go of that shit bud...you recruited, manifested and fostered way too many needy pieces of shits....You'll never see a 'limited government' again...the talking point is played the fuck out.

Yes. Republicans have bailed on limited government in order to win. That's the point I'm making. Thanks for confirming.

You fence-sitters are almost always semi-progressive, you typically lean way left on most matters and your history of posts proves it.
LET GO....No political party will ever win a national election on the platform of limited government...it won't happen..it would be absolutely asinine for any party to run on such ignorance at this point. Again, your super progressive buddies have done a great job fostering the worlds filth and manifesting a gigantic underclass which is way too dependent of father government.

 

[g5000]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...474462-8315-11e9-933d-7501070ee669_story.html

By
George F. Will

If congressional Democrats will temper their enthusiasm for impeachment with lucidity about the nation’s needs and their political self-interest, they will understand the self-defeating nature of a foredoomed attempt to remove a president for aesthetic reasons. Such reasons are not trivial but they are insufficient, particularly when almost all congressional Republicans are complicit in, by their silence about, President Trump’s comportment.

<snip>

Attempting to overturn the result of a presidential election is a momentous undertaking. In 1998, when Republicans impeached President Bill Clinton for lying about sex with an intern, the public punished them for what it considered a grossly disproportionate response.

 

[bendog]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...474462-8315-11e9-933d-7501070ee669_story.html

By
George F. Will

If congressional Democrats will temper their enthusiasm for impeachment with lucidity about the nation’s needs and their political self-interest, they will understand the self-defeating nature of a foredoomed attempt to remove a president for aesthetic reasons. Such reasons are not trivial but they are insufficient, particularly when almost all congressional Republicans are complicit in, by their silence about, President Trump’s comportment.

<snip>

Attempting to overturn the result of a presidential election is a momentous undertaking. In 1998, when Republicans impeached President Bill Clinton for lying about sex with an intern, the public punished them for what it considered a grossly disproportionate response.

Yeah, but I don't recall and didn't find where he stood in 1988

I absolutely agree with him that you don't remove a potus unless there's an actual danger of the perversion of democracy. Are free elections really interfered with. Trump welcomes Putin's interference, but without a systemantic coordinated perversion of the process, I don't see removing.

On the other hand, if the Dems do NOT impeach - while knowing Moscow Mitch will never remove Trump (nor confirm a pro Roe Justice even if a majority elects a potus who appoints) - a potus who sought a quid pro to dig up dirt on an opponent … why do we even have elections?

 

[g5000]

I really don't recall where he came down on Clinton

Please bring an end to tawdriest presidency

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

Sadly, there are no actual conservatives in the Federal government anymore, conservatives who consistently applied the dogma of ‘limited government.’

The last actual conservative was Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy.

Incorrectly labeled as a ‘swing-voter,’ Kennedy was in fact nothing of the sort. Kennedy was a conservative but not a rightwing ideologue; his consistent application of the doctrine of limited government resulted in the incorrect perception that he voted ‘liberal’ on some cases and ‘conservative’ on others.

For example, Kennedy consistently ruled in support of limited government with regard to political speech (Citizens United) and the regulation of firearms (DC v Heller); he likewise ruled in favor of limited government concerning the right to privacy (Planned Parenthood v. Casey) and the right of same-sex couples to access marriage law (Obergefell v. Hodges).

The notion of ‘limited government’ is far more than just ‘deregulation’ and unbridled capitalism, it’s also opposing the state seeking to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law and opposing the state denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law – the latter two examples being the more egregious examples of rightwing hypocrisy.

 

[Oddball]

The notion of ‘limited government’ isn’t a cafeteria plan – one cannot limit the government he doesn’t like while at the same time advocate for increasing the power and authority of the state to oppose that which he disapproves of.

Sadly, there are no actual conservatives in the Federal government anymore, conservatives who consistently applied the dogma of ‘limited government.’

The last actual conservative was Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy.

Incorrectly labeled as a ‘swing-voter,’ Kennedy was in fact nothing of the sort. Kennedy was a conservative but not a rightwing ideologue; his consistent application of the doctrine of limited government resulted in the incorrect perception that he voted ‘liberal’ on some cases and ‘conservative’ on others.

For example, Kennedy consistently ruled in support of limited government with regard to political speech (Citizens United) and the regulation of firearms (DC v Heller); he likewise ruled in favor of limited government concerning the right to privacy (Planned Parenthood v. Casey) and the right of same-sex couples to access marriage law (Obergefell v. Hodges).

The notion of ‘limited government’ is far more than just ‘deregulation’ and unbridled capitalism, it’s also opposing the state seeking to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law and opposing the state denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law – the latter two examples being the more egregious examples of rightwing hypocrisy.

Oh piss off...There are people having an actual conversation here.