Beyond belief...........

[Skull Pilot]

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

The parent is responsible not the gun.

Yes a lot of people are stupid and it's not my responsibility to change that.

I cannot and will not protect every person in this country from their own poor decisions

No, it's not your responsibility, and based on previous comments it's not the responsibility of anyone to do anything about it either.

You can't protect every person from their own poor decisions, you can't protect every person from the poor decisions of other people, but you will allow those fucking idiots to have a deadly weapon which serves only one purpose, to kill, and you'll even allow it to happen when kids are routinely shooting other toddlers.

Well then I guess I have been using my guns incorrectly for the past 30 years since I have never killed anyone with them.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot. If people are not convicted felons or adjudicated to be dangerously mentally ill they have a RIGHT to own a gun.
With rights come responsibilities. I am not responsible if others shirk those responsibilities.

With liberty comes choice. With freedom comes risk.

Accidental gun deaths are one of the least common causes of death.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

Third largest population of the world outside India and China and you know what is the difference between us and them besides our government!?!

The fact America is a melting pot of different races, religions and political way of thinking!

So yes we will have more deaths than Canada, England or France because just in California we have more people than Canada!

Also you believe the minority of ignorant people should allow you to punish the majority because some lack commonsense!

The fact is you want to control everyone free will to the point that no one is allow to think on their own unless it conforms to your reality!

In the end this discussion is moot because to remove the second amendment you need an act of Congress and States will have to agree and with that there is no point discussing your wish to rid this nation of the second amendment!

 

[frigidweirdo]

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

The parent is responsible not the gun.

Yes a lot of people are stupid and it's not my responsibility to change that.

I cannot and will not protect every person in this country from their own poor decisions

No, it's not your responsibility, and based on previous comments it's not the responsibility of anyone to do anything about it either.

You can't protect every person from their own poor decisions, you can't protect every person from the poor decisions of other people, but you will allow those fucking idiots to have a deadly weapon which serves only one purpose, to kill, and you'll even allow it to happen when kids are routinely shooting other toddlers.

Well then I guess I have been using my guns incorrectly for the past 30 years since I have never killed anyone with them.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot. If people are not convicted felons or adjudicated to be dangerously mentally ill they have a RIGHT to own a gun.
With rights come responsibilities. I am not responsible if others shirk those responsibilities.

With liberty comes choice. With freedom comes risk.

Accidental gun deaths are one of the least common causes of death.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

 

[Skull Pilot]

The parent is responsible not the gun.

Yes a lot of people are stupid and it's not my responsibility to change that.

I cannot and will not protect every person in this country from their own poor decisions

No, it's not your responsibility, and based on previous comments it's not the responsibility of anyone to do anything about it either.

You can't protect every person from their own poor decisions, you can't protect every person from the poor decisions of other people, but you will allow those fucking idiots to have a deadly weapon which serves only one purpose, to kill, and you'll even allow it to happen when kids are routinely shooting other toddlers.

Well then I guess I have been using my guns incorrectly for the past 30 years since I have never killed anyone with them.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot. If people are not convicted felons or adjudicated to be dangerously mentally ill they have a RIGHT to own a gun.
With rights come responsibilities. I am not responsible if others shirk those responsibilities.

With liberty comes choice. With freedom comes risk.

Accidental gun deaths are one of the least common causes of death.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, it's not your responsibility, and based on previous comments it's not the responsibility of anyone to do anything about it either.

You can't protect every person from their own poor decisions, you can't protect every person from the poor decisions of other people, but you will allow those fucking idiots to have a deadly weapon which serves only one purpose, to kill, and you'll even allow it to happen when kids are routinely shooting other toddlers.

Well then I guess I have been using my guns incorrectly for the past 30 years since I have never killed anyone with them.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot. If people are not convicted felons or adjudicated to be dangerously mentally ill they have a RIGHT to own a gun.
With rights come responsibilities. I am not responsible if others shirk those responsibilities.

With liberty comes choice. With freedom comes risk.

Accidental gun deaths are one of the least common causes of death.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Can kill another kid by holding them under water.

The reality is if someone want to kill they will use anything to carry out their wish!

Look at France and how many trucks have been used to kill innocent people.

The gun is not the problem!

 

[frigidweirdo]

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well then I guess I have been using my guns incorrectly for the past 30 years since I have never killed anyone with them.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot. If people are not convicted felons or adjudicated to be dangerously mentally ill they have a RIGHT to own a gun.
With rights come responsibilities. I am not responsible if others shirk those responsibilities.

With liberty comes choice. With freedom comes risk.

Accidental gun deaths are one of the least common causes of death.

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

 

[Skull Pilot]

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

 

[2aguy]

No one thinks it's OK.

But people do stupid shit every single day.

More kids die every day from other causes than firearm accidents but somehow only the gun accidents seem to matter to some people.

Of course no one thinks it's okay.

The problem is there are accidents with kids that happen because kids are kids, and then there are accidents with kids that shouldn't have happened in the first place, and the only reason it did happen is because there are too many guns in society.

There are not too many guns,

There are too many irresponsible parents.

More kids drown in backyard pools every year but we don't have too many pools do we?

Fine, too many irresponsible people. Can you ban irresponsible people?

More people die from heart attacks, maybe we should ban hearts, hey? Great argument there.....

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

No, you can't change the fact that out of 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense, a handful are going to to stupid things......with 16.3 million people carrying guns there were 48 children accidentally killed with guns.....

16.3 million vs. 48

Car deaths.....with children...yet you are fixated on the one thing that is used to kill the smallest number of children.

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Death by car and gun by age, 2015...

<1.... Car 64, .....Gun 1

1-4.... Car 332, ...Gun 25

5-9.... Car 351, .....Gun 7

10-14.... Car 412, .....Gun 15

15-19.... Car 2,535, .....Gun 52

Total Car.... 3,694

Total Gun.... 100

 

[2aguy]

There are not too many guns,

There are too many irresponsible parents.

More kids drown in backyard pools every year but we don't have too many pools do we?

Fine, too many irresponsible people. Can you ban irresponsible people?

More people die from heart attacks, maybe we should ban hearts, hey? Great argument there.....

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

A gun saves more innocent lives than they take....AMericans use guns 1,500,000 times, legally, to stop violent criminals from raping, robbing and murdering people....they are the most effective self defense tool for good people ever made......you would rather those people be raped, robbed or murdered than that they use a gun to stop the attacks...that is irrational.

 

[2aguy]

And your point is...?

Children should not have access to guns. But your insane gun laws make it inevitable. America shot these kids.

Try again.

The parent failed the child and not society.

More than 500 children are accidentally shot every year in the US. It's a national tragedy.

48 are killed in gun accidents...over 1,000 are killed in car accidents......and even more are injured in car accidents...yet not one complaint from you guys about allowing 16 year olds to drive them on public roads without adult supervision......

You guys have an irrational fixation on guns...since the fats, the truth and reality show that guns save more lives than they take...innocent lives saved from rape, robbery and murder......

No they don't. That's just a fiction that the NRA tells you. Countries with strict gun control don't have out-of-control crime or higher rates of death from crime which would be the case if the NRA were correct about all of the lives that are being saved.

Are you kidding....? You have no idea what you are talking about....

Britain banned and confiscated guns. They are an island nation. They have increasing gun crime and their violent crime is going nuts....

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .



========

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

 

[2aguy]

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

Let's try this

1) an unsupervised child in a pool
2) a supervised child in a pool

Which is more likely to end up with a fatal drowning?

And then let's try this:

A swimming pool, designed for swimming in.
A gun, designed for killing.

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

The NRA has taught 30 million kids gun safety...people like you fight any effort to teach gun safety....the basic gun safety the NRA teaches kids....

1. Stop
2. Don't touch.
3. Leave the room.
4. Find an adult.

The anti gunners like you fight that safety training, training that would save lives. Why? Because you need dead children. They are your best tool for attacking gun owners. So you fight gun safety education because it saves children from gun accidents.

 

[2aguy]

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Would you say a law abiding gun owner with their gun is more likely to stop a rape, robbery or murder than a law abiding citizen with a teddy bear? Considering Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders...v. criminals who used guns 9,616 times to murder people...and of those murdered 70-80% were other criminals......

There is nothing about this issue that you are right about......

 

[2aguy]

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

When the Mexican drug cartel pulls up into a town, with their police allies.....which do you think those Mexican citizens are more likely to want in order to survive the mass murder about to happen.....a gun, or a teddy bear?

 

[2aguy]

So the kid is less dead if he drowns?

And far more kids drown than die from accidental gunshots

But you still can't fathom that in both cases, pools and guns, it is the PARENT of the kid not the object that is ultimately responsible for the death

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

When a woman is about to be raped...in her home, in an alley that she has been dragged into......which is more likely that she will want to have....a gun, or a teddy bear?

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[2aguy]

Children should not have access to guns. But your insane gun laws make it inevitable. America shot these kids.

Try again.

The parent failed the child and not society.

More than 500 children are accidentally shot every year in the US. It's a national tragedy.

48 are killed in gun accidents...over 1,000 are killed in car accidents......and even more are injured in car accidents...yet not one complaint from you guys about allowing 16 year olds to drive them on public roads without adult supervision......

You guys have an irrational fixation on guns...since the fats, the truth and reality show that guns save more lives than they take...innocent lives saved from rape, robbery and murder......

No they don't. That's just a fiction that the NRA tells you. Countries with strict gun control don't have out-of-control crime or higher rates of death from crime which would be the case if the NRA were correct about all of the lives that are being saved.

He made point that more kids are killed in the U.S. by idiot drivers than by a firearm.

Can you dispute this or will you turn and focus on something else.

Also the United States of America is not Canada and the population of this country is the third largest in the World where California alone has a larger population than Canada which mean more deaths will happen here in this country.

Americans have rights that are granted by the Bill of Rights and to change any of them it will take an act of Congress and the majority of states to change it, so in the end the second amendment is here to stay!

Humans have free will and with free will they have the right to think for themselves.

If someone does not want to own a gun here in the states or does not want one on their property then so be it, but they can not demand that I can not own one in my home or business unless the State Law restricts my second amendment right.

Each State set it laws and some have been overturned because it infringes on the individual Constitutional Right but in the end the second amendment is here to stay and nothing you say will change that reality...

So please never come to America because us savages prefer our freedom versus being told we're too stupid to think on our own.

The parents that allow their child to get hold of the parent Firearm is the failure and not the laws that are already in place...

Canada gun crime is going up too.....

 

[Dragonlady]

My Jewish mother's family, all of which are now ashes in Europe, would disagree. What's sick is government tyranny, What prevents that is free people. People free to speak, free to pray or not, free to pursue happiness and yes, free to protect themselves.

What a brazen nerve you have to use the dead victims of the Final Solution to support your cockeyed notion of Americans needing arsenals for protection.
"An Apple Valley father apparently shot his 2-year-old daughter late Wednesday night when his gun discharged in what investigators described as a cleaning accident." Oh! Brother.
Detectives report 2-year-old girl shot by father cleaning gun

Mass murder happened in Europe because the people of Europe gave up their guns in order to be safe.....and their governments surrendered 12 million of them to socialist gas chambers and death camps....

You don't car about kids dying in accidents......since more kids die in car accidents...you have an irrational fixation on guns....

How many kids died in gun accidents in 2015......out of 74.2 million kids.... 48.

How many kids die in car accidents....

Teenage Car Accident Statistics - Aceable

According to the AAA Foundation, 371,645 people were injured and 2,927 were killed in crashes that involved a teen driver in 2013.

Table for teen driving deaths...
Fatality Facts

Total car accidental death....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Death by car and gun by age, 2015...

<1.... Car 64, .....Gun 1

1-4.... Car 332, ...Gun 25

5-9.... Car 351, .....Gun 7

10-14.... Car 412, .....Gun 15

15-19.... Car 2,535, .....Gun 52

Total Car.... 3,694

Total Gun.... 100

Total car accidental death....

2015....36,161
2014....33,736
2013....33,804
2012....34,935

Total gun accidental death...

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015...489

2014.....486
2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

So excuse us if we don't take your concern about accidental deaths by guns seriously....since so many other ways to die accidentally outnumber gun accidental deaths......

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html

Cars, Accidental deaths 2015......36,161

Poisons...accidental deaths 2015...47,478

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2015...33,381
Accidental drowning 2015 .....3,602
Accidental suffocation 2015...6,914
Accidental Machiinery 2015... 550

Accidental gun death 2015... 489

If they Left can't be hypocritical, they can't be anything. Their demand for gun control or confiscation is entirely hypocritical, as you have so effectively pointed out.

The gun issue is much like the Left's hypocrisy on so many issues today. Think Black Lives Matter and the NFL idiots protesting cops shooting blacks when on any given weekend in Chicago, more blacks are shot by other blacks than cops shooting blacks in an entire year.

It is amazing how easy the left elite can dupe some Americans over and over again.

Except cops are suppose to be above the level of thug life..

Once again you post stupidity but are so stupid, you don't know it. Of course bad cops exist, just like idiots (you) exist.

Is pushing division and hatred between races over a minor problem, more important than stopping a much larger problem?

Don't answer please...being an idiot, I know you don't know the answer.

35,000 Americans die of gunshot wounds every single year. Every other civilized country in the world has a lower rate of gun crime and death by guns but Americans cling to their handguns like drowning men to a life raft.

If you think guns are keeping you safe from tyranny, you're sadly mistaken. The government has so much firepower they could blow any armed militia to kingdom come in a heartbeat, should they do choose.

35,000 people a year die from guns. Another 45,000 died from lack of access to healthcare before the ACA. They are preventable deaths but right wingers won't even consider alternatives.

There really is no cure for stupid.