Bernie Dem-Socialism WILL WORK: here is why
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JoeB131
Diamond Member
I don't think that the OP is serious... but you guys are treating her like she is.
Why would you conclude that?
The Most Popular College Majors
Political Science came in at #14 with 38K degrees. History came in at 15 with 37K Degrees. Performing Arts came in at 28 with 14K degrees. Not a lot of people are going into those things now. Why do you think more would if we had "Free" college. Meanwhile, business came in at #1 with 289K degrees and Nursing came in #2 with 141K degrees. Things we actually need.
Why would anyone take their time? Frankly, if anything, a government subsidy would probably put a time limit on it. You know you got to get your degree in five years now.
It took me five years to get my bachelor's. I worked two minimum wage jobs, joined the National Guard to get scholarships, took some of my preliminaries at a community college before moving up to a real university. But this was back in the 1980's when College was affordable.
The problem isn't who pays for college, it's that it isn't affordable now.
Here's the thing. All those poor third world countries you mention were poor and third world countries before the "Socialists" took over. Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia, where the 5% of the white population controlled most of the land even after they gave up political power. People lived in poverty and misery.
The question you guys should ask yourself isn't if "Socialism" is a good idea or not. You have to ask yourself, how has the American dream become so degraded that socialism sounds like a plan to so many people.
yes, Joe Biden and the Democrats beat the wolf from the door this time. Next time, I'm not so sure.
Why would you conclude that?
The Most Popular College Majors
Political Science came in at #14 with 38K degrees. History came in at 15 with 37K Degrees. Performing Arts came in at 28 with 14K degrees. Not a lot of people are going into those things now. Why do you think more would if we had "Free" college. Meanwhile, business came in at #1 with 289K degrees and Nursing came in #2 with 141K degrees. Things we actually need.
Why would anyone take their time? Frankly, if anything, a government subsidy would probably put a time limit on it. You know you got to get your degree in five years now.
It took me five years to get my bachelor's. I worked two minimum wage jobs, joined the National Guard to get scholarships, took some of my preliminaries at a community college before moving up to a real university. But this was back in the 1980's when College was affordable.
The problem isn't who pays for college, it's that it isn't affordable now.
Here's the thing. All those poor third world countries you mention were poor and third world countries before the "Socialists" took over. Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia, where the 5% of the white population controlled most of the land even after they gave up political power. People lived in poverty and misery.
The question you guys should ask yourself isn't if "Socialism" is a good idea or not. You have to ask yourself, how has the American dream become so degraded that socialism sounds like a plan to so many people.
yes, Joe Biden and the Democrats beat the wolf from the door this time. Next time, I'm not so sure.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
Not after the last 100 years of creeping totalitarianism. **** Woodrow Wilson and FDR. It's mainly their fault. They took that bullshit and kicked it into hyper drive.
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JoeB131
Diamond Member
Okay, so you are starting out being wrong.. I'm sure this won't get better. Here's a chart of India's economic growth. Yes, their investment in education HAS paid dividends. Their economy is now worth 3 Trillion, on par with first world countries.
More wrong stuff. More Americans go to Mexico for cut rate medical treatment than Canadians come here.
We spend more in GDP on medical care than any other country in the world. We have the worst results.
The question is, do we continue on an overpriced for profit system, or do we do what western Europe does, and treat medical treatment like police, fire, water purification, etc. The question answers itself.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Guy, you wouldn't last a week in 1910 America. Some poor person would have slit your throat for the money in your pocket.
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
For emergencies, you might have a point, but that's where it ends. Of course, we know that's never where it's going to end, so we're not even gonna start.
Okay, so you are starting out being wrong.. I'm sure this won't get better. Here's a chart of India's economic growth. Yes, their investment in education HAS paid dividends. Their economy is now worth 3 Trillion, on par with first world countries.
More wrong stuff. More Americans go to Mexico for cut rate medical treatment than Canadians come here.
We spend more in GDP on medical care than any other country in the world. We have the worst results.
The question is, do we continue on an overpriced for profit system, or do we do what western Europe does, and treat medical treatment like police, fire, water purification, etc. The question answers itself.
Most people were cool with heavy restrictions on machine guns, but now you fuckers want to take away harmless rifles that are no different than any other rifle except for the fact that they look scary. So, in that same vein, **** no. Give me my ******* machine gun back.
Go to ******* hell on any form of government owned production or distribution of goods or services including health care. We are never giving you any more. Go **** yourself in your commie ass.
And machine guns or Valhalla. Dead ******* serious. We will have machine guns or we will die fighting for them and feast, fight, and **** in the halls of Odin forever. We'll take all of you commies with us. Machine guns or Valhalla, bitches.
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Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
You don't even know what the **** you're talking about do you?
No wonder you're a commie.
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jknowgood
Diamond Member
I say around 12, he wants to pay about 60% in taxes.
Are you high? See your #4. Normally I tell people to vote their conscience but I’ll make an exception in your case. Here’s why:
1. “Free College” doesn’t exist. College involves intellectual property rights, professors, and some sort of infrastructure. There are costs involved with maintenance even if you can convince the professors to work for free. An educated populace understands this. Take an economics course that isn’t being taught by AOC.
2. Under socialism you have just disintegrated the free market. This is part of why socialism collapses resulting in extreme inflation. You are right- stuff doesn’t sell, businesses go under and production stops and no one has money. I’d rather not get my next meal from my neighbor’s trash can.
3. Medical care is a human right, like electricity, food, and water. We pay for those too!
4. Legality of weed is like the legality of making a right turn at a red light- it is determined by local legal processes. It is not a differentiator between capitalism and communism.
5. Giving lower end workers a seat at the decision making board will not motivate them. It never has. It will simply dilute their power. Let the lower end worker decide their own career. Some people are better at implementing or planning than being a decision maker.
If you want to create a utopia, stop trying the create a centralized government- you will discourage productivity, stifle creativity, bankrupt the economy, suppress freedom, destroy individuality, and ruin the present vibrant and flourishing culture. After all, you will eventually run out of other people’s money to spend. Get a job, develop a career and don’t vote for socialism.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Andylusion
Platinum Member
Okay, so you are starting out being wrong.. I'm sure this won't get better. Here's a chart of India's economic growth. Yes, their investment in education HAS paid dividends. Their economy is now worth 3 Trillion, on par with first world countries.
More wrong stuff. More Americans go to Mexico for cut rate medical treatment than Canadians come here.
We spend more in GDP on medical care than any other country in the world. We have the worst results.
The question is, do we continue on an overpriced for profit system, or do we do what western Europe does, and treat medical treatment like police, fire, water purification, etc. The question answers itself.
Okay, so you are starting out being wrong.. I'm sure this won't get better. Here's a chart of India's economic growth. Yes, their investment in education HAS paid dividends. Their economy is now worth 3 Trillion, on par with first world countries.
And India has moved decisively towards Capitalism. Moreover, their economy has grown significantly, that's true. However, there is a reason why computer engineers, are working help desk phone support jobs. Do you need a degree in computer engineering, to work a phone support desk? No you do not.
So while you can claim that the massive investment in free education, has paid off... the truth is far more murky. On top of having engineers with degrees, working phone support, the education has rampant cheating.
It's not just cheating, it's an entire industry, that is open and documented.
India's 'cheating mafia' gets to work as school exam season hits
Cheating non-stop, throughout the entire education system.
Now let me ask you, how does cheating pay off? If you cheat your way through an engineering degree, how would you ever be able to work as an actual engineer? Of course the answer is, you could not. So what value do these degrees have?
I just told you what value they have. They end up working at help desk phone support. Which of course proves that you never needed the degree to start with. The entire country would be better off without paying billions in wasted money for degrees that have no value, so people can get a job where they click a button and reset someone's password on the opposite side of the world.
More wrong stuff. More Americans go to Mexico for cut rate medical treatment than Canadians come here.
I'm not sure about the word "More", but otherwise what you say is entirely true.
The difference though, is that Americans pay for care, and Canadians supposedly get care free.
Do you see the difference? Americans shop around, because we have a largely capitalist based economy. We look around for a better deal for health care, just as much as we look around and find a better deal on a car, or a vacuum sweeper.
Americans shop around, because we're engaged in free-market capitalism. Americans are not going to socialized hospitals, where they get free care at tax payer expense. They are going to Pay-For-Service hospitals and doctors, that are far less regulated and controlled, than the ones here in the US. They are going to hospitals in Mexico, that are not cost-shifting millions of dollars in Medicare and Medicaid losses, to private patients, like is routine in the US.
In short, American's engaging in Medical Tourism, are engaging in everything that Capitalism is about. Finding a deal, shopping the market, engaging in voluntary exchange of value for value. Nothing even remotely socialist about it.
On the flip side.... Why is any Canadian ever coming to the US, or Mexico?
Canadians pay significantly higher taxes than US citizens. One of the stated reasons for this, is for the purpose of providing 'free health care'. Canadians are entitled to free care across Canada, and they pay dearly in taxes for that free care.
So why would someone who is paying very high taxes, and is supposedly entitled to free care, why would they be willing to pay money to get care, outside of Canada?
Again, I can understand why a US citizen would. But why would a Canadian? US citizens are doing what Capitalists do in a market. They are shopping for a better deal.
But Canadians supposedly get care free. What are they shopping around for? Do you ever shop around in order to pay a higher price?
No. No one shops around in order to pay more money. So why are they doing it?
Dr Sarah Boston of Canada, wrote this book, about her experience of getting a tumor, and trying to get care at a Canadians 'free' gov-care socialized system. Month long waits just to get an appointment. Having diagnostic tests delayed for months on end.
Sarah ended up using a scanner designed for use on horses, to scan herself, and was able to save her own life. She was only able to do this, because she was a veterinarian.
After this horrific experience from the terrible service at government run hospitals, she started comparing her own practice of working on animals, to gov-care working on humans. A dog can get a CT scan before the end of the day that the animal is brought in. A human can barely get a CT scan before the end of the following year in some case.
And her story is just one of thousands. Literally thousands. Lady couldn't walk, and needed knee surgery, and had waited 3 years for the first knee, and was 2 years into waiting for the second. Five year wait, for a simple surgery often done within weeks in the US.
This is why we hear of Canadians willing to take out mortgages on their house, in order to get care outside Canada. So now they are paying huge prices, and taking out large loans, to fly to another country for care.... after paying high taxes, and supposedly getting free health care.
Now do you see the difference? Americans are rightly shopping the market, like true capitalists do. Canadians are escaping socialism.
Even if the US system has the highest level of health care possible, Americans will always be shopping around for the best deal.
Canadians have no such reason to leave their country for health care. They pay the taxes for it. They are supposedly entitled to it. So if a Canadian is willing to pull out huge loans, and fly across the world for care.... it just proves socialism sucks.
Andylusion
Platinum Member
So let's stop and look at Germany for just a second. Because you look at US wages, as "slave wages", and then point to Germany. So let us look at Germany.
How much the average person in 40 different countries takes home after taxes
Now you can look through the ridiculous numbers for other countries, but let's focus on Germany here.
First, you'll notice the average pre-tax salary in Germany is just $42K. Now that is compared to the US, where the average is almost $49K.
So let's ask the obvious question, why are Germans paid so much less than Americans for the exact same job? And this is not just true of Germany, but anywhere in Europe.
https://www.itpro.co.uk/business-st...tech-salaries-trail-behind-the-us-amid-brexit
US salaries are significantly higher than European salaries.
So again, why? And the answer is simple. I as an employer, can't pay you, the same money I pay government. If I set aside $50,000 for a position, and I have to pay $8,000 in taxes, I can't pay you $50,000 in salary. That $8,000 in taxes, has to come out of your wage. So you end up with $42,000.
Therefore, with higher taxes for all your free programs, and free health care, and free education, comes at a cost, a cost of you earning far less money.
On top of that, you'll notice that even at the relatively low income (by US standards) of $42,000 a year, a German citizen can expect to lose at least 30% of their wage in taxes, leaving them with just $29K.
Again, in order to pay for all those free-programs and free-education and Free-health care, even the poorest people in Germany, and the middle class, are paying much higher taxes.
There is no Bernie "the rich will pay for it" in Europe. That's why every time Bernie says that only people paying over $100K or billionaires, are going to pay higher tax, you should realize this is bogus crap. No country on Earth has ever had a system where "the rich pay the tax for everyone's free stuff" has ever worked.
*YOU* are going to pay the tax. The lower and middle class are going to pay the tax.
Lastly, all of the above ignores that even after you get your $29K left over money, you are not done feeding the government all your money.
What you are looking at above is a receipt from a McDonald's in Germany. This is from a woman friend of mine, who was born in Germany, and moved to America. She loves it here, and has said she'll never move back to Germany, and the above receipt is part of the reason why.
So let me translate that for you. Those numbers are in Euros.
The cost of a 20-p Chicken Nuggets is $9. Here in the US, it's $6.80
The cost of 3 large ice teas, is $8.40. Here in the US, it's $4.50
And to top it off, look at that number by MwSt. That's the tax rate. 19% government sales tax.
So the total cost of buying a 20p Chicken Nugget, and 3 ice teas, is $21.
The cost of taxes and regulations on business is passed onto the consumer in higher prices, and then you pay a 19% on that cost in sales tax.
Now ironically, living in Germany is over all cheaper, which seems counter intuitive since costs we can measure seem higher.
But this is because they have a lower standard of living.
Find Out the Differences between American vs German Homes: it’s where the heart is.
You can read about that here. Smaller refrigerators. Smaller ovens. Smaller kitchens. Most don't have a front yard, and few have a backyard. So much smaller properties.
By the way, because of how much less people make in Germany, owning a home is more rare. In order to buy a house, you are expect to put 30% to 50% down. The normal, is to rent.
So you think that it is so much better in Germany, the reality isn't even remotely what you think it is.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Sorry, man, crazy people with guns worry me a lot more than the government.
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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i guess you've never looked at the free public high school grades. too fking funny. no commitment, no work needed. what a waste of life.
Andylusion
Platinum Member
Why do you think more would if we had "Free" college.
So back when the UK was jacking up tuition for college, because the government simply didn't have money for unlimited university spending, they interviewed a woman who was planning to go to university.
She said openly that she wanted to be an art major, but because the average wages for such majors were low, that it wouldn't be affordable to get a degree in art, if she had to pay for it herself.
So it is pretty clear... at least to those of us on the right, that people are in fact making wiser choices about what degrees they go for, based on the fact they have to pay for the degree.
I think it is equally clear, that people would in fact go for degrees that produced less value, if they did not have to pay for that degree.
Why would anyone take their time?
Same reason as above. If you are not paying for it, then what does it matter how long you take? Cost is a very important motivator in making wise choices.
It took me five years to get my bachelor's. I worked two minimum wage jobs, joined the National Guard to get scholarships, took some of my preliminaries at a community college before moving up to a real university. But this was back in the 1980's when College was affordable.
Really... so lets just think about this logically.... as government got more and more involved in college, and started subsidizing college more and more.......
Now it's less and less affordable.
Let's start using our minds to collectively make some logical conclusions from these facts you rightly pointed out.
Maybe... government involvement has made things worse?
Here's the thing. All those poor third world countries you mention were poor and third world countries before the "Socialists" took over. Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia, where the 5% of the white population controlled most of the land even after they gave up political power. People lived in poverty and misery.
The same basic claim could be made of nearly all countries that moved to Socialism and destroyed themselves. That doesn't change the fact that they moved to socialism and destroyed themselves.
Moving to socialism never... as in NEVER.. results in the poor and miserable being happy in rich. Never. No such example exists in all human history. In every single case, the poor and miserable before, end up more poor, and more miserable, and often ends in death.
The solution to rich white people owning most of the land... is for black people to get jobs, learn skills, get jobs, earn money, and buy their own land.
The solution isn't to destroy the people who have the wealth. Because that just results in no wealth, and people starving to death.
The question you guys should ask yourself isn't if "Socialism" is a good idea or not. You have to ask yourself, how has the American dream become so degraded that socialism sounds like a plan to so many people.
And the answer is... no. The American dream is alive and well. We have the highest standard of living in the world. People in the lowest class of the USA, live a better life than some of the middle class of the rest of the world. You have a better chance of becoming wealthy, or a part of the middle class, in this country, than any other in the world.
The problem is not that America has changed. America has not changed that dramatically.
What has changed is the infection of the cruel and evil left-wing ideology, that teaches people the American Dream is dead.
People outside this country, still know what the American dream is, and they come here, and live that dream.
Immigrants come here routinely, and live out the American dream. If you look at the top startups in the US, a massive portion of them are immigrants.
So why can immigrants come here, who don't know the culture, some have to learn English, and they are successful wealthy and prosperous, if the American Dream is dead? or "degraded"?
It isn't. The reasons they are successful, is because they didn't get indoctrinated by the 'hate-america' left.
So no, there is nothing wrong with the American Dream. Only something wrong with mental illness known as left-wing ideology.
Andylusion
Platinum Member
Yeah, and I look at AOC, Bernie, Warren, and think..... those are the crazy people with the guns of government.... I can't think of anything I should be more worried about.
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
You want to rob others to pay for your college that you didn't earn, when they did not get the same benefit of a free education.
It is theft. It's not free. You're a fool.
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