Beretta Moves All Manufacturing Out of Md. After State Passes New Gun Bill

[Spoonman]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

put a 9mm slug next to a 45 and there is no comparison

 

[JimBowie1958]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Thanks for the background. The 9mm is a piece of shyte that no one liked when I was in.

The LAAWS needed replacing. Not only did it penetrate 4 inches when everything had more up front, ikt could also slice the hell out of your fingers if you opened it wrong.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Berettas are not very good guns, IMHO.

Every one of them I've ever owned has jammed up way too much.

Jamming into the chamber, multiple feed, stove piping...how was it jamming?

Some hand gun semi-auto models are just not designed for hollow points with wide openings. Others need a more precise bullet shape.

I upgraded my Glock barrel to a match-grade barrel a couple of years ago and Golden Saber rounds started jamming. I had to switch to Federal because the chamber to the match grade barrel was too exact, less tolerance but that often comes with increased precision.

lol, Manchester negged me for this post, roflmao.

 

[Politico]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Why is you .45 fanboys feel thee need to dump a load any chance you get? No one was having a caliber debate in this thread.

 

[RoadVirus]

Excellent. All businesses need to pick up and leave states that are hostile business environments. The loss of tax dollars is a catalyst for getting politicians to take their heads out of their asses like no other.

Gun maker Beretta U.S.A. will move all of its manufacturing out of Maryland to a new factory in Tennessee, the company announced Monday, after protesting Maryland's strict gun law passed last year.

The company met with employees Tuesday to tell them that 160 manufacturing and related jobs would move. Beretta's headquarters, including about 95 administrative and executive jobs, will stay in Accokeek, Maryland.

Beretta Moves All Manufacturing Out of Md. After State Passes New Gun Bill | NBC4 Washington

This is what happens when politicians pass legislation on 100% pure emotion and 0% common sense.

 

[NLT]

I have owned a .45 cal 1911 since I was in the Navy, best hand gun, simple, simple to tear down and will knock your dick in the dirt if you get shot by one.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Berettas are not very good guns, IMHO.

Every one of them I've ever owned has jammed up way too much.

That's why I've always stuck with my Colt M1911 U.S. Army .45apc.

I'd love to have one of those.

My friend from Baltimore gave me a Luger once which was ironic. I'm not big fan of handguns although I own several. I prefer AR's, Nagants, and other long rifles.

 

[westwall]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Just a correction on your Moro Rebel history. The 1911 didn't exist at the time so we sent them the old Colt SAA revolvers from the Indian Wars era. Most were assembled from parts (and are called "artillery" models) and yes, they did fire a big 250 grain soft lead bullet.

 

[westwall]

Berettas are not very good guns, IMHO.

Every one of them I've ever owned has jammed up way too much.

never have had problems

sounds like a case of limp wristing

Yeah, me neither. I have an old Beretta M1934 that I've had for 40 years and it shoots just fine. I picked it up when I was in Tunisia at the time. Probably used by the Regia Aeronautica during WWII.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I guess that they did not go back to Italy because of their "outrageous" gun laws:

Carry licenses[edit]

To legally purchase firearms in Italy one must be issued with a carry license first. To obtain such a license applicants must be 18 or older, prove they can handle and use a firearm safely (usually by obtaining a certificate from a shooting range after attending a practical shooting course), declare to have a clean criminal record (verification will be made by the Police authorities) and must not be mentally ill or be a known abuser of, or addicted to, alcohol or illegal drugs. Other grounds for refusal of a carry license include being a conscientious objector or living with persons who may gain access to the firearms and abuse them (e.g. living with family members who are mentally ill, alcoholic or drug addicts).[3][4][5]

Wiki

 

[williepete]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Great input BR. If you're ever in the DFW area, PM me and drinks are on the house. I'd love to hear the full story with all the details on what was learned during the evaluations. I remember when that was going on. When the decision was announced, almost everyone I knew in the service said it smelled funny.

I recall the USMC stuck to their 1911s. I was in the USAF when the change happened. Aircrews at the time were using the S&W Model 15 in .38. A very accurate sidearm and easy to carry. Most everyone was happy moving to the Beretta 92 for the increased number of shots available. Most of us were hoping for the model Browning had in the running. Do you recall how it scored? All of us would have welcomed a 1911. (None of us were marching so the hell with weight!)

I never had trouble with the Beretta 92. It was relatively accurate and I could always throw a few extra mags in my survival vest. The little Beretta Tomcat is my summertime CC. But for traveling, home defense and wintertime carry, it's my 1911.

Congrats to Tennessee. Good jobs and tax revenue are always welcome. Better luck next time Maryland.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Why is you .45 fanboys feel thee need to dump a load any chance you get? No one was having a caliber debate in this thread.

Because the 45 is going to put them on the ground with one shot almost anywhere.

With the 9mm y9ou better dump the whole damned clip in them and pray they aren't high.

 

[westwall]

I guess that they did not go back to Italy because of their "outrageous" gun laws:

Carry licenses[edit]

To legally purchase firearms in Italy one must be issued with a carry license first. To obtain such a license applicants must be 18 or older, prove they can handle and use a firearm safely (usually by obtaining a certificate from a shooting range after attending a practical shooting course), declare to have a clean criminal record (verification will be made by the Police authorities) and must not be mentally ill or be a known abuser of, or addicted to, alcohol or illegal drugs. Other grounds for refusal of a carry license include being a conscientious objector or living with persons who may gain access to the firearms and abuse them (e.g. living with family members who are mentally ill, alcoholic or drug addicts).[3][4][5]

Wiki

It's actually not too hard to have guns in Italy. Ammunition on the other hand is VERY HEAVILY controlled. If you're a hunter you must specify where every round was expended, and they only allow you a few rounds at a time.

 

[Stephanie]

oh well, they hate on guns and run businesses out of their state.... so the people who live there can rely on their GUBERMENT to take care of them

good luck with that

 

[gallantwarrior]

If the citizens (and the businesses they own) made such decisions more often, we'd soon see some changes in government overreach and a reining in of this overbearing urge to control the populace. After all, hit 'em where it hurts the most, in the pocketbook. Not only does MD lose the business tax revenue, lots of jobs are going to follow Beretta, leaving less personal tax revenue, as well.

 

[Stephanie]

If the citizens (and the businesses they own) made such decisions more often, we'd soon see some changes in government overreach and a reining in of this overbearing urge to control the populace. After all, hit 'em where it hurts the most, in the pocketbook. Not only does MD lose the business tax revenue, lots of jobs are going to follow Beretta, leaving less personal tax revenue, as well.

Yep
I don't how MD is going to be able to handle the losing such a business
the people who live there didn't speak up so it's their problem now

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Excellent. All businesses need to pick up and leave states that are hostile business environments. The loss of tax dollars is a catalyst for getting politicians to take their heads out of their asses like no other.

Gun maker Beretta U.S.A. will move all of its manufacturing out of Maryland to a new factory in Tennessee, the company announced Monday, after protesting Maryland's strict gun law passed last year.

The company met with employees Tuesday to tell them that 160 manufacturing and related jobs would move. Beretta's headquarters, including about 95 administrative and executive jobs, will stay in Accokeek, Maryland.

Beretta Moves All Manufacturing Out of Md. After State Passes New Gun Bill | NBC4 Washington

Uh-huh...So if people googled corporate tax rates of Maryland and Tennesee, Tenn's wouldn't be substantially lower?

Uh-oh...

Maryland Corporate Tax Rate: 8.25%

Tenn.: 6.5%

 

[Politico]

Because the 45 is going to put them on the ground with one shot almost anywhere.

With the 9mm y9ou better dump the whole damned clip in them and pray they aren't high.

I can aim so I never had a problem.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I was on the 9mm test committee for the Army when they decided to replace the M1911. We tested just about every model 9mm in all types of combat conditions. I can tell you with out a doubt that the decision to change and the company selected were due to politics and cronyism. A 3 star general visited our test site and asked me how the testing was going. I told him this was one of the stupidest decisions the Army ever made. He said we both know it but the decision was made way above our pay grades. A little history. At the turn of the last century we were fighting the Moro's in the Philippines. Our soldiers were issued a .38 at the time. The Moro's would be all drugged up when they attacked and the .38 was not stopping them. They begged for a better side arm. We sent the M1911. Not only did it stop them, it knocked them on their asses because it fired a big, slow, soft lead round that expanded on contact and you didn't need to hit a vital organ. The 9mm fires a hi speed round that will go through and through, not knock you down and will not kill unless it hits a vital organ. The only advantage I saw was that it has a 14 round magazine. One of the major factors Beretta was chosen was even though it is an Italian company, the Army's 9mm would be manufactured in Baltimore. I am still of the opinion it was a terrible decision. As a side note, I was also on the test committee when the Army replaced the LAAW with the AT-4. I did agree with that decision.

Why is you .45 fanboys feel thee need to dump a load any chance you get? No one was having a caliber debate in this thread.

Because the 45 is going to put them on the ground with one shot almost anywhere.

With the 9mm y9ou better dump the whole damned clip in them and pray they aren't high.

nothing replaces good shooting skills

you really have two choices

either shoot them in the engine

or in

the computer

both are pretty much lights out

 

[Bush92]

Rumble blue states rumble!