Benjamin Netanyahu talks back.

[jillian]

Do you REALLY want to talk about population demographics in israel, jew? REALLY? I bet you don't. not REALLY.

Go **** yourself bigot!

yea, I DIDN'T THINK YOU'D WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEMOGRAPHIC POPULATIONS, jew. Not when israel is as innocent in culling those who do and do not count as Nazi Germany.

*****.

Yeah.. Jews belong in the Utah desert, right shogs?

Or you could post about 100 posts a day demanding that I get my family's land in Belarus. I have as much claim to that as the pals have to Israel.

 

[Shogun]

Israel bucks U.S. demands
Says it won't halt plans for apartments in E. Jerusalem

Staff writer Jeffrey Fleishman reported from Cairo; Batsheva Sobelman is a special correspondent. | Tribune Newspapers
July 20, 2009

JERUSALEM - -- Calling Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem indisputable, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday rejected U.S. demands to stop plans to build 20 Jewish-owned apartments in the eastern part of the city that Palestinians regard as key to their future state.
The complete article can ba found at:
Israel bucks U.S. demands -- chicagotribune.com


If the United States is to make any progress in the middle east we must enforce the following so the Zealots of both sides can't haggle:

UN General Assembly resolution 303 reiterated the UN commitment to internationalization of Jerusalem, and designated it a "corpus separatum" - separate body. Under the original partition plan of 1947 (GA resolution 181), Jerusalem was to have been administered under UN sovereignty as an international city.

Perhaps the UN resolutions that the United States wants to enforce are those that please the Zionists only. I hope I am wrong!

I have a better idea. Where do you live? We can divide THAT city and make it "international".

I have a better idea, princess.. Let's UNITE israel and pali and make a SINGLE nation with a SINGLE capital that BOTH JEWS AND PALIS can claim under united democracy where neither is more important than the other.... you know.. kinda like the same equality you enjoy here in a pluralistic United States....


How does THAT trip your zionism, jillybean? Funny how you turn tail 180 when the idea of an israel that is not solely comprised of only jews comes up, eh Ms. Wallace?

 

[Shogun]

Go **** yourself bigot!

yea, I DIDN'T THINK YOU'D WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEMOGRAPHIC POPULATIONS, jew. Not when israel is as innocent in culling those who do and do not count as Nazi Germany.

*****.

Yeah.. Jews belong in the Utah desert, right shogs?

Or you could post about 100 posts a day demanding that I get my family's land in Belarus. I have as much claim to that as the pals have to Israel.

If you want to demonize mormons like you do arabs, jillybean. No one cares to be marginalized from an encroaching population be they believers of Allah or Joe Smith.

Go take your concern to Belarus. When Belarus starts marginalizing your people I'm quite positive you'll let the world know about it and expect someone to save your day.

 

[Shogun]

it got pretty ******* QUIET in here when I started mentioning demographics and single state equality that favoes neither palis or jews in Palisrael. That shit NEVER ceases to make me laugh at you half assed fair weather liberal jews whose convictions extend only as far as your chosen people.

 

[Sweet Willy]

it got pretty ******* QUIET in here when I started mentioning demographics and single state equality that favoes neither palis or jews in Palisrael. That shit NEVER ceases to make me laugh at you half assed fair weather liberal jews whose convictions extend only as far as your chosen people.

It is a near laughable situation, were it not so bloody. Israel is commonly hailed as an example of democracy in the ME when the truth is, it's just another ME theocracy, petrified of offering a democratic voice to the millions they hold at gun point. They would have annexed Gaza and the West Bank long ago if they thought they could get away with establishing a sub class of people not allowed to participate in governing the country. As it stands, they carefully montior the population, manipulate the electorate to reflect a particular ethnic majority while the rest are held at gun point, behind fences and walls.


Shameful really, for what is supposed to be an advanced and civilized culture.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I agree.

This is a decade out of date but I doubt the reality has changed that much: WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Israel is not a third world country.

Current US aid to Israel consists almost entirely of a little less than $2.5 billion in credits to buy military hardware from US companies, creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments. It is important to remember that not one penny of this money ever leaves the US economy but only circulates through it creating jobs and tax revenues. Israeli companies already manufacture and export much of what Israel buys from US companies because of the credits, and what Israeli companies don't already manufacture, they would soon learn to if US policy created a market for it. It is debatable whether Israel would be hurt more by losing a few billion in military credits or the US would be by losing tens of thousands of jobs.

According to this report (in 2008) - it sounds like a lot more then that.


Here's the summary portion: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World
War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign
assistance, having recently been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has
provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel.

Over the years, Israel has developed an advanced industrial economy which,
according to the World Bank, places it among the top 50 richest nations in terms of
per capita income (between Cyprus and Slovenia respectively). With Israel becoming
more economically self-sufficient, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu told a joint session of Congress in 1996 that Israel’s need for economic
aid would be reduced over time.

In 1998, Israel proposed gradually eliminating the $1.2 billion economic aid and increasing the $1.8 billion in military aid by $60 million per year over a 10-year period beginning in the year 2000. Subsequent appropriations for Israel included cuts of approximately $120 million in economic aid and increases of $60 million in military aid each fiscal year.

Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving benefits
that may not be available to other countries. For example, Israel can use U.S. military
assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military
purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, all U.S. foreign assistance
earmarked for Israel is delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year. Most other
recipients normally receive their aid in installments. Congress also appropriates funds
for joint U.S.-Israeli missile defense programs.

In August 2007, the Bush Administration announced that it would increase U.S.
military assistance to Israel by $6 billion over the next decade. The agreement calls
for incremental annual increases in FMF to Israel, reaching $3.1 billion a year in the
near future. The Administration has requested $2.4 billion in military assistance and
no economic aid for Israel in FY2008. H.R. 2764, the Consolidated Appropriations
Act, 2008 provides the full Administration request.

Moreover, it is naive to imagine that the threat of withdrawing the military credits would persuade Israel to alter its positions on issues it sees as vital to its interests. In fact, a withdrawal of US support or even the perception of it would most likely persuade the Israelis to take more hardline positions and to respond more aggressively to perceived provocations lest anyone think them more vulnerable with US support. Consider what happened in 1967. When Egypt and Syria massed their forces on Israel's borders and threatened war, the Israeli leadership, uncertain of their ability to withstand attacks from the larger and better armed Arab forces, dispatched a delegation to Washington to ask for an American declaration that if Israel was attacked the US would support it, but LBJ, although sympathetic, was bogged down in Vietnam and anxious about a possible confrontation in the ME with the USSR, and told them that US generals had studied the situation and decided Israel could win this war alone, so there was no need for such a US declaration. Without this promise of US support, the Israeli leadership decided it could not afford to wait for the Arabs to strike first and launched the Six Day War that captured the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights.

At first glance it might seen that LBJ's decision led to a bad result, but when you consider that Israel's victory in this war and in 1973 stopped the advance of Soviet power and influence in the ME cold, and US support for Israel and Egypt in the 1979 peace treaty locked the Soviets out, it becomes clear that Israel has done more to advance US influence and to protect US vital interests than any other ally we have ever had, and we can only wish the Europeans or the Koreans or the Vietnamese had been able to perform so well with so little US aid as Israel has.

Interesting - I wasn't aware of that - thanks! However...while Israel has long supported the U.S.'s interests and vice versa I think that is no longer strictly the case - particularly in regards to the longstanding issue of settlements.

The settlements are an issue that should be decided as a part of a final status agreement, not as a precondition for starting peace talks as Obama has defined the situation. While some Arab/Muslim nations would like to see the settlement issue decided in a particular way, the fact is their relations with the US will not change one way or the other regardless of how that issue is settled. They will continue to relate to the US on the basis of their own national concerns and those concerns will not be changed because the Palestinians get a little more land or a little less land. So the US has no vital interest in how the settlement issue is resolved.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The argument that Israel uses it's aid money to buy from US suppliers is a bunch of baloney. To contend that robbing Peter to pay Paul is justification for this cash give away is absurd.

Further, it is the view of the US that Israel IS NOT economically self sufficient. I think that is complete poppy cock, but that's the way they see it. They aren't self sufficient in the same way the US is not self sufficient, we live far beyond our means and borrow to support it. Which makes this whole issue all the more clear. We are BROKE. We BORROW the money that we GIVE to Israel. Once we give it to them, they turn around and buy US T Bills with the money we gave them, collecting interest from us using the money we BORROWED to give to them. We get to pay interest on the same money twice.

These people are not our friends, friends.

Nearly all US aid to Israel is military aid and nearly all the military aid the US provides to any country is in the form of credits to buy from US companies. That means no cash is involved. Israel makes a request of the DoD to buy specific hardware and if that request is approved Israel gets the hardware and the government pays the company, creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments. We're not giving money away, we're redistributing it within the US economy, and that's what governments do when they tax and spend, they redistribute money within the economy. And this is why the US has traditionally been more disposed to provide military aid than to provide economic aid or humanitarian aid: military aid is nearly always spent within the US economy and provides jobs for Americans and tax revenues for state and local governments, while much economic and humanitarian aid is a net drain on the US economy.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The argument that Israel uses it's aid money to buy from US suppliers is a bunch of baloney. To contend that robbing Peter to pay Paul is justification for this cash give away is absurd.

Further, it is the view of the US that Israel IS NOT economically self sufficient. I think that is complete poppy cock, but that's the way they see it. They aren't self sufficient in the same way the US is not self sufficient, we live far beyond our means and borrow to support it. Which makes this whole issue all the more clear. We are BROKE. We BORROW the money that we GIVE to Israel. Once we give it to them, they turn around and buy US T Bills with the money we gave them, collecting interest from us using the money we BORROWED to give to them. We get to pay interest on the same money twice.

These people are not our friends, friends.

Nearly all US aid to Israel is military aid and nearly all the military aid the US provides to any country is in the form of credits to buy from US companies. That means no cash is involved. Israel makes a request of the DoD to buy specific hardware and if that request is approved Israel gets the hardware and the government pays the company, creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments. We're not giving money away, we're redistributing it within the US economy, and that's what governments do when they tax and spend, they redistribute money within the economy. And this is why the US has traditionally been more disposed to provide military aid than to provide economic aid or humanitarian aid: military aid is nearly always spent within the US economy and provides jobs for Americans and tax revenues for state and local governments, while much economic and humanitarian aid is a net drain on the US economy.

That is a load.

US aid to Israel has largely been paid by single lump sum payments. There are particular defense contractors that offer lines of credit but these credits do not nearly consume the whole of US aid to Israel. And even so, paying Israels debts to contractors still means borrowing money we don't have to pay them.

Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israel’s use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services.

This is just the MILITARY aid we have given them. We have given them wads of cash for domestic use too. All in cash grants.

Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

 

[GHook93]

I agree.

This is a decade out of date but I doubt the reality has changed that much: WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Israel is not a third world country.

Pull US foreign aid to Israel.

Long over due.

LOL, it must really be a thorn in your side that the JEWS are promised 10 more years of the same! Hopefully one might get to spit in your face as he take money from your pocket!

I don't know how this could be demonstrated anymore clearly. This is type of person whom we are giving our money to. People who will take your money and spit in your face, given the chance.

Pulling this aid money is long over due.

Good thing your voice is not listened to!

Them dirty Jews are stealing your dough again!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Israel bucks U.S. demands
Says it won't halt plans for apartments in E. Jerusalem

Staff writer Jeffrey Fleishman reported from Cairo; Batsheva Sobelman is a special correspondent. | Tribune Newspapers
July 20, 2009

JERUSALEM - -- Calling Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem indisputable, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday rejected U.S. demands to stop plans to build 20 Jewish-owned apartments in the eastern part of the city that Palestinians regard as key to their future state.
The complete article can ba found at:
Israel bucks U.S. demands -- chicagotribune.com


If the United States is to make any progress in the middle east we must enforce the following so the Zealots of both sides can't haggle:

UN General Assembly resolution 303 reiterated the UN commitment to internationalization of Jerusalem, and designated it a "corpus separatum" - separate body. Under the original partition plan of 1947 (GA resolution 181), Jerusalem was to have been administered under UN sovereignty as an international city.

Perhaps the UN resolutions that the United States wants to enforce are those that please the Zionists only. I hope I am wrong!

That a boy BEN! Tell the BOY King to shut the **** up and mind his own damn business... if he screws Israel, he screws himself and his culture killing party.

Americans are with you 100%... and who gives a flaming red rats ass what a leftist 'feels?'

 

[Sweet Willy]

LOL, it must really be a thorn in your side that the JEWS are promised 10 more years of the same! Hopefully one might get to spit in your face as he take money from your pocket!

I don't know how this could be demonstrated anymore clearly. This is type of person whom we are giving our money to. People who will take your money and spit in your face, given the chance.

Pulling this aid money is long over due.

Good thing your voice is no listened to!

Them dirty Jews are stealing your dough again!

I think everyone can agree that you make a good point.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The argument that Israel uses it's aid money to buy from US suppliers is a bunch of baloney. To contend that robbing Peter to pay Paul is justification for this cash give away is absurd.

Further, it is the view of the US that Israel IS NOT economically self sufficient. I think that is complete poppy cock, but that's the way they see it. They aren't self sufficient in the same way the US is not self sufficient, we live far beyond our means and borrow to support it. Which makes this whole issue all the more clear. We are BROKE. We BORROW the money that we GIVE to Israel. Once we give it to them, they turn around and buy US T Bills with the money we gave them, collecting interest from us using the money we BORROWED to give to them. We get to pay interest on the same money twice.

These people are not our friends, friends.

Nearly all US aid to Israel is military aid and nearly all the military aid the US provides to any country is in the form of credits to buy from US companies. That means no cash is involved. Israel makes a request of the DoD to buy specific hardware and if that request is approved Israel gets the hardware and the government pays the company, creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments. We're not giving money away, we're redistributing it within the US economy, and that's what governments do when they tax and spend, they redistribute money within the economy. And this is why the US has traditionally been more disposed to provide military aid than to provide economic aid or humanitarian aid: military aid is nearly always spent within the US economy and provides jobs for Americans and tax revenues for state and local governments, while much economic and humanitarian aid is a net drain on the US economy.

That is a load.

US aid to Israel has largely been paid by single lump sum payments. There are particular defense contractors that offer lines of credit but these credits do not nearly consume the whole of US aid to Israel. And even so, paying Israels debts to contractors still means borrowing money we don't have to pay them.

Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israel’s use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services.

This is just the MILITARY aid we have given them. We have given them wads of cash for domestic use too. All in cash grants.

Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Your main point being that what I said about US military aid to Israel creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments is 74% accurate and that 26% of the money may be spent on military hardware from Israeli companies. I stand corrected.

It seems that in the past, the US agreed to allow Israel to use some of this money to develop weapons especially suited to its needs that US companies did not make and to buy the weapons from Israeli companies, but this had been done on a project by project basis, and as I now understand it, it was not until the 2007 agreement that Israel was allowed to use a fixed percentage of the aid for purchases from Israeli companies.

The process is as I described it. The money is transferred from the Treasury to an account at the Fed and as Israeli requests for purchases are approved by DoD (technically by Congress, but effectively by DoD) and the products delivered, payment is transferred from the Fed to the seller. If the sales are not approved, the money stays in the account at the Fed, but this rarely happens.

So if I understand you correctly, what rankles you is not the 74% that creates tens of thousands of American jobs and tax revenues to state and local governments, but the 26% that Israel spends with Israeli companies, $624 million in 2008. In the age of Obama when multi trillion dollar deficits are expected to become commonplace, $624 million is mere chump change, but perhaps you're right and Israel should be required to spend all the money with US companies.

 

[L.K.Eder]

ahh.. so, manifest destiny is OK when JEWS do it. gotcha.

Hey douche bag, you do realize that East Jerusalem has predominately a Jewish populated area pre-'48. After the war of independent the Jews fleed from EJ to the other side! So take your gay self and get an education!

i think you are by far the most interesting poster i have encountered here on this board.

outside of your israel-devotion i cant pin you down on anything.

 

[Coyote]

Pull US foreign aid to Israel.

Long over due.

I agree.

This is a decade out of date but I doubt the reality has changed that much: WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Israel is not a third world country.

Pull US foreign aid to Israel.

Long over due.

LOL, it must really be a thorn in your side that the JEWS are promised 10 more years of the same! Hopefully one might get to spit in your face as he take money from your pocket!

Why?

Israel is a political entity - it's a nation. Israel does not equal "the Jews". Criticism of Israel's actions or political positions does not equal anti-semitism. Neither Israel nor it's Arab neighbors nor the Palestinian refugees are above criticism for their actions and none, including Israel are innocent in perpetrating the current mess. Israel is not the U.S. and the U.S. is not Israel and at this time the extreme one-sided nature of the relationship is causing us more problems then good. The ultimate irony is there is far more dissent and criticism of Israeli policy within Israel then there is in the U.S. Thou shalt not criticise anything Israel does or thou shalt be labeled an anti-semite eh?

Maybe it's time you take that chip off of your shoulder?

 

[Shogun]

ahh.. so, manifest destiny is OK when JEWS do it. gotcha.

Hey douche bag, you do realize that East Jerusalem has predominately a Jewish populated area pre-'48. After the war of independent the Jews fleed from EJ to the other side! So take your gay self and get an education!

i think you are by far the most interesting poster i have encountered here on this board.

outside of your israel-devotion i cant pin you down on anything.

rofl:

now THAT is ******* hilarious. I guess the batsignal to the mossad called in the calvary after all.

 

[Coyote]

The settlements are an issue that should be decided as a part of a final status agreement, not as a precondition for starting peace talks as Obama has defined the situation. While some Arab/Muslim nations would like to see the settlement issue decided in a particular way, the fact is their relations with the US will not change one way or the other regardless of how that issue is settled. They will continue to relate to the US on the basis of their own national concerns and those concerns will not be changed because the Palestinians get a little more land or a little less land. So the US has no vital interest in how the settlement issue is resolved.

I see what you are are saying but I'm not sure I agree. There are major issues involved and both the Palestinians and the Israeli's are going to have to give - IF they really want peace and that is a pretty big "if".

The Palestinians really have nothing to lose because they have nothing - no real rights, no sovereignty, not much hope for the future right now. At any point their livelyhoods can be destroyed, their homes, their families. That kind of hopelessness feeds right into recruitment for violence. The Palestinians are also making demands that Israel can't possibly meet: the "right of return" for example which would drastically change the demographics of Israel.

The Israeli's however have more to lose then the Palestinians because their standing as the only democracy in the Middle East, and their support in the national community is at stake. You can't claim to have a "democracy" when you effectively control the lives and land of some 5 million stateless people who have no real voice in policy affecting them. You also can't have a real two-state solution with the settlements as they currently are because there is no way to create a valid state within the current boundaries allowed. You can't have a state that who's borders, trade, access to water, to utilities can be completely closed off at will by a foreign country at any time; who can not engage in treaties or agreements with countries Israel doesn't approve of, who can not keep a military to defend it's borders - borders controlled by a country that is hostile to it and a country where some political groups despise them as something like vermin - that is not "viable". The end result of such a scheme is effectively apartheid in all but name.

Then you have Jeruselum - a mutli-ethnic city, important to three major world religions. Israel has systematically been de-lousing it of Arabs and Palestinians through control of housing and building permits. These, along with the settlements are their "facts on the ground". At some point the demographics will make it impossible for it to be anything but an Israeli city.

I think that the issue of settlements must be addressed because they have been a long standing point of provocation to the Palestinians. I think the Palestinians might then be more likely be able to give on the "right of return"...maybe.

But that also calls in the question of whether they REALLY want peace.

For the Israeli's: constant threat, a common enemy, and the increasingly tarnished image of Israel as little David vs. Arab Goliath unites some very disparate political groups and puts off dealing with political and religious schisms within the population that have differing ideas of what Israel should be.

For the Palestinians: a two state solution may no longer seem so lucrative - if they push for inclusion within Israel - a one state solution - then demographically their numbers will overwhelm the Jewish population and ... depending on the strength of Israel's identity as a Jewish and secular state - it could change the nature of Israel.

So..is peace possible?

You mention that the US has no vital interest in how the settlement issue is resolved...I would disagree. I think it is the one issue of paramount importance in the Middle East because it's lack of resolution fuels every other conflict and in particular, terrorism. Will resolving it stop terrorism? No, but it will pull a leg out from under it. It will force other Arab nations to focus on extremists rather than blaming Israel for everything.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Nearly all US aid to Israel is military aid and nearly all the military aid the US provides to any country is in the form of credits to buy from US companies. That means no cash is involved. Israel makes a request of the DoD to buy specific hardware and if that request is approved Israel gets the hardware and the government pays the company, creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments. We're not giving money away, we're redistributing it within the US economy, and that's what governments do when they tax and spend, they redistribute money within the economy. And this is why the US has traditionally been more disposed to provide military aid than to provide economic aid or humanitarian aid: military aid is nearly always spent within the US economy and provides jobs for Americans and tax revenues for state and local governments, while much economic and humanitarian aid is a net drain on the US economy.

That is a load.

US aid to Israel has largely been paid by single lump sum payments. There are particular defense contractors that offer lines of credit but these credits do not nearly consume the whole of US aid to Israel. And even so, paying Israels debts to contractors still means borrowing money we don't have to pay them.



This is just the MILITARY aid we have given them. We have given them wads of cash for domestic use too. All in cash grants.

Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Your main point being that what I said about US military aid to Israel creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments is 74% accurate and that 26% of the money may be spent on military hardware from Israeli companies. I stand corrected.

It seems that in the past, the US agreed to allow Israel to use some of this money to develop weapons especially suited to its needs that US companies did not make and to buy the weapons from Israeli companies, but this had been done on a project by project basis, and as I now understand it, it was not until the 2007 agreement that Israel was allowed to use a fixed percentage of the aid for purchases from Israeli companies.

The process is as I described it. The money is transferred from the Treasury to an account at the Fed and as Israeli requests for purchases are approved by DoD (technically by Congress, but effectively by DoD) and the products delivered, payment is transferred from the Fed to the seller. If the sales are not approved, the money stays in the account at the Fed, but this rarely happens.

So if I understand you correctly, what rankles you is not the 74% that creates tens of thousands of American jobs and tax revenues to state and local governments, but the 26% that Israel spends with Israeli companies, $624 million in 2008. In the age of Obama when multi trillion dollar deficits are expected to become commonplace, $624 million is mere chump change, but perhaps you're right and Israel should be required to spend all the money with US companies.

You are not accounting for NON MILITARY AID. 76% of their MILITARY aid is spent with us. Just last year, 2008, we finally phased out ESF payments, which Israel has recieved in billions since 1971. At the same time we pulled the ESF, we began increasing the military aid.

One of the biggest "spit in your face" moves, is that the money that we do not give directly to israel is indeed placed into an account here, with the Federal Reserve, AN INTEREST BEARING ACCOUNT. They collect interst FROM US, using money WE GAVE them. That is INSANE.

Anyway, there is still money that we give Israel for cash assistance to immigrants. They fly in Jews from all over the world, give them language and job training, housing and cash assistance, on the US taxpayer.

Further, we extend loan guarantees that exceed our aid package and we regularly send special assistance in addition to the regular assistance.

To assert that all of the aid is spent with US contractors, or even 76% of the total aid, is a flat lie. And whatever amount they spend with US contractors does not make a difference in the amount of money we give away. And to rub a little salt in the wound, we allow them to collect interest on the money, from us.

It's all in the report.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

 

[Gurdari]

Maybe we get each side to agree on the rules, then 'help' everyone abide by them.If International law is too much to ask, we work out something new. But the main thing is to apply it EVENLY. So if might makes right for one side - it is legit for both. If one side is to disarm and renounce 'terror' so do both. etc.

As for other remarks about other places on Earth where people 'want their land back' - this is slightly different in that a world governmental body carved it up, as opposed to centuries old colonisation (which I personally think can and should be undone in some areas and in some respects, but that's another thread).

 

[Sweet Willy]

Maybe we get each side to agree on the rules, then 'help' everyone abide by them.If International law is too much to ask, we work out something new. But the main thing is to apply it EVENLY. So if might makes right for one side - it is legit for both. If one side is to disarm and renounce 'terror' so do both. etc.

As for other remarks about other places on Earth where people 'want their land back' - this is slightly different in that a world governmental body carved it up, as opposed to centuries old colonisation (which I personally think can and should be undone in some areas and in some respects, but that's another thread).

Sounds good, but it's a pipe dream. Israel has the Pals right where they want them, under total control, with no self determination, no political voice, no economic independence, nothing.

This situation that so many see as a "problem" is exactly the best case scenario for Israel, one they have worked toward for 50+ years. They have effectively moved a population off of the land they wanted, taken it for themselves and managed to push the undesirables into managable camps.

Israel has no motivation to seek peace. They are free to manage and punish their prisoners into submission. That is the peace Israel enjoys.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That is a load.

US aid to Israel has largely been paid by single lump sum payments. There are particular defense contractors that offer lines of credit but these credits do not nearly consume the whole of US aid to Israel. And even so, paying Israels debts to contractors still means borrowing money we don't have to pay them.



This is just the MILITARY aid we have given them. We have given them wads of cash for domestic use too. All in cash grants.



WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

Your main point being that what I said about US military aid to Israel creating tens of thousands of US jobs and much needed tax revenues to state and local governments is 74% accurate and that 26% of the money may be spent on military hardware from Israeli companies. I stand corrected.

It seems that in the past, the US agreed to allow Israel to use some of this money to develop weapons especially suited to its needs that US companies did not make and to buy the weapons from Israeli companies, but this had been done on a project by project basis, and as I now understand it, it was not until the 2007 agreement that Israel was allowed to use a fixed percentage of the aid for purchases from Israeli companies.

The process is as I described it. The money is transferred from the Treasury to an account at the Fed and as Israeli requests for purchases are approved by DoD (technically by Congress, but effectively by DoD) and the products delivered, payment is transferred from the Fed to the seller. If the sales are not approved, the money stays in the account at the Fed, but this rarely happens.

So if I understand you correctly, what rankles you is not the 74% that creates tens of thousands of American jobs and tax revenues to state and local governments, but the 26% that Israel spends with Israeli companies, $624 million in 2008. In the age of Obama when multi trillion dollar deficits are expected to become commonplace, $624 million is mere chump change, but perhaps you're right and Israel should be required to spend all the money with US companies.

You are not accounting for NON MILITARY AID. 76% of their MILITARY aid is spent with us. Just last year, 2008, we finally phased out ESF payments, which Israel has recieved in billions since 1971. At the same time we pulled the ESF, we began increasing the military aid.

One of the biggest "spit in your face" moves, is that the money that we do not give directly to israel is indeed placed into an account here, with the Federal Reserve, AN INTEREST BEARING ACCOUNT. They collect interst FROM US, using money WE GAVE them. That is INSANE.

Anyway, there is still money that we give Israel for cash assistance to immigrants. They fly in Jews from all over the world, give them language and job training, housing and cash assistance, on the US taxpayer.

Further, we extend loan guarantees that exceed our aid package and we regularly send special assistance in addition to the regular assistance.

To assert that all of the aid is spent with US contractors, or even 76% of the total aid, is a flat lie. And whatever amount they spend with US contractors does not make a difference in the amount of money we give away. And to rub a little salt in the wound, we allow them to collect interest on the money, from us.

It's all in the report.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

As you correctly point out, non military aid to Israel is now almost zero, and you do make a plausible argument that Israel should be forced to spend all of the military aid in the US to create tens of millions more American jobs than it is already creating.

Apparently, it is the very small amount of non military aid Israel still receives from us and the interest on the Fed account that has you so worked up. There is no question but that the US Congress continues to treat Israel favorably as compared to other countries, and no doubt this is in recognition of the fact that US influence in the ME is largely based on our close relationship with a strong Israel. Not only did Israel's victories over Soviet client states in Egypt and Syria stop Soviet expansion in the ME and US support for Egypt and Israel lock the Soviets out, thus saving the US from a potential confrontation with the USSR to protect our access to ME oil, but it is the perception of strong US influence over Israeli policy that draws the oil rich states towards close relationships with us rather than with other rich nations that could supply their technical and military needs.

So Congress understands that not only did Israel save the US from a potential confrontation with Soviet forces in the ME in the past but our close relationship with Israel continues to enhance US prestige and influence in the ME today. No other US alliance has ever served America's vital interests so well.