Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
I wish I had your immune system. However, keep in mind the coronavirus has some of the same symptoms as the flu but it is an entirely different virus from a different family. Doctors are being continually surprised by people with risk conditions that are generally very healthy and rarely ill that are hit very hard by the virus. Statistically, 1 in 5 people infected who develop symptoms will have serve enough breathing problems that they will have to be admitted to the hospital. I had pneumonia some years ago and had to go on a ventilator for 9 days. I will never do that again. If I had choice, I would wear a mask day and night the rest of my life before every going on ventilator again.The concept of a vaccine is to train your immune system to generate the antibodies against the virus, without causing harm to the vaccinated person.And that choice may well be a burden as well as an opportunity. Who and how will decisions be made between less side effects and a higher percent effective, between costs and availability, single dose or multiple dose, etc. Also the successful vaccines will not become available all at the same time; that is we may have a 40% effective vaccine requiring two doses available in March and 3 months latter a 60% effective single dose vaccine with more side effects. My guess is that we will be lucky to have a vaccine available to the general public by the end of next year and even then it will take many months of inoculations before we start seeing decreasing numbers. This means we are going to have waves and hot spots breaking out for at least the next two years. So we better learn how to live with this virus and make decisions based on sound medical and economic data and advice, devoid of politics. It would be best if the president and other politicians would stop implying that a vaccine is just right around the corner and it's going wipe out the virus anytime in the near future. And telling the public that the virus is just going to disappear is about as helpful as a fart in spacesuit. We need to concentrate on saving lives and the economy, not some magical cure that does not exist and may not exist for a long time.The vaccine tracker has 40 vaccines in progress.The reason you have a flu shot every year is to pickup protection for new strains of the viruses.Every vaccine is different. For the influenza vaccine given to day, you should avoid it if you:I agree with your assessment of a vaccine with a few exceptions.Early on CDC said that masks would not protect you which was true then and is basically true today. Actually, there is a very small amount of protection for the wearer but not much. Herd immunity as defined by the scientist is a calculated estimate based on transmission rate and reproductive numbers for the virus. For this virus herd immunity is 70% of the population having been exposed, that is they have antibodies. That can be off by 10 or 15%. If the scientists definition of herd immunity is used, there should not be much difference in the calculation.I think there is a huge consensus among just everybody in the healthcare field in regard to mask wearing. Of course it probably does not include your local bartender who is out of work, Sam the Surfer, and my granddaughter that thinks wearing a mask makes her look ugly. And there is a lot evidence coming contact tracing that shows that people that are asymptomatic are spreading the virus.A growing body of evidence supports the idea that wearing face masks in public, even when you feel well, can help curb the spread of the coronavirus — since people can spread the virus even without showing symptoms. That's the main reason to wear a mask: to protect other people from you.Since that Uterus holds a life and removing it would cause it's death.I can't breath with a mask on. I couldn't stand oxygen masks when i WENT in for an operation, I tolerate the mask less than those. I have problems breathing. I'll stay home until whenever. I don't want to live in a world where everyone wears a mask.
Not wearing a mask will not cause me to die and even so, I'm an adult able to make my own choices but the child isn't.
However that's not written in stone, it's what the left wishes to believe. While you can find studies and such to show they work, I can find studies that say they don't. It's subjective, just like man made global warming, or the effects of hydroxychloroquine.
Because there is no consensus, then it should be the individuals choice whether to wear a mask or not.
I read the opposite from the CDC just a few weeks ago. This tells you how everything changes. First a mask was no good, now it's mandated in cities and states across the country. Before asymptomatic people were low risk for spreading, now the risk of spreading is the same.
I think there is a difference between going to a restaurant and going to a doctors office. Doctors are exposed to ill people day in day out. For most of us, we will probably never be around a person with Covid unless you are a socialite, or your business relies on personal contact with people all day long. Although our antibody testing is far from perfected, some are suggesting that we are already in the herd process and there's no stopping it.
The problem with this thing is we've never experienced anything like it; at least with the technology we have today. Who knows......next year at this time, they may be telling us what a waste of time and money it was for us to wear a mask. We simply don't know.
We may not have all the details of a virus but we know a lot about epidemics and how to control them. For example any airborne virus or a virus whose most common transmission is through the air, the key to stopping transmission is preventing the virus from reaching a host. Masks, plastic shields, staying away from the source of virus, staying at home, etc prevents the spread, a really easy to understand concept but pretty hard to implement in a large population.
We also know a lot about a virus based on the characteristics of the family. There are 6 types of coronavirus that can infect humans which includes Mers and SARS. They have many of the same characteristic but there are some differences. It's really fortunate that there was work done developing the SARS vaccine because this gave researchers a starting point in developing the vaccine for this member of the family. Making changes to the vaccine can be very simple. However, every time you change the vaccine you start over in testing. This is why it takes so long to develop a vaccine. The fact that we are willing to accept a vaccine which has is not very effective, 40% makes it more likely we will get one sooner rather later.
It's wishful thinking, but there certainly is no guarantee a vaccine can be developed. We still don't have vaccines for HIV, flu, even the common cold.
If a new vaccine came out and was approved by September, many Americans would be hesitant to take it including myself. It reminds me of when I bought my first computer and read up on it. It was a Dummy's book. The author warned his readers to never buy software 2.0. 2.0 software is the original version. When thousands of people use it problem free in trials, it's different than when you start passing it out to millions of people. That's when they discover the hidden flaws and imperfections. It's why you always wait until version 2.2. or 2.3 to come out. Those are the versions where the flaws have been corrected.
It's the same with new medications. Yes, it undergoes intense testing, but we won't know the results or drawbacks until it's been used on tens of millions of people. Even then, it could take years to find out if it has any long-term negative effects.
Before I take it, I would need 100% guarantee from my doctor that it won't have any harmful effects on me, corroborated by my cousin, who is a retired research doctor that supervised the laboratory where she worked. Until I get that, I may wait for a while if and when a vaccine comes out.
We do have a vaccine for the flu. I get one every year. A vaccine to prevent the common cold has been difficult to make, primarily because there are more than 200 different varieties of viruses that can cause colds. Also, if there were such a vaccine, you would have to get a new one every year like the flu vaccine, plus it would probably be not very effective due to the rate these viruses mutate.
The HIV is nothing like the coronations family of viruses. The problem developing a vaccine for HIV lies in genetic makeup of the virus. Unlike coronavirus, HIV has an incredibly fast replication cycle, less than 24 hour. However, the real show stopper is that HIV is prone to frequent replication errors, churning out mutated copies of itself which recombine into new strains as the virus is passed from person to person.
This coronavirus is very similar to SARS which we have developed a vaccine. Also most of the organizations developing vaccines have already proved in the lab that their vaccine kills the virus and is so far harmless to humans. The big question market is how effective the vaccine will be. Typically vaccines like these are 40% to 70% effective. The CDC has implied that a 40% effective vaccine would be acceptable. Think about what this really means. If we are able to produce enough of the vaccine to make it available like the flu vaccine at every primary care doctors office, every pharmacy, hospital, and public health clinic, we might be able to get the same inoculation numbers as the flu vaccine which is 45% of the population by the end of next year. So we might just have have 148 million vaccinated with 40% less chance of getting the virus and the remainder no protection since they were not vaccinated. After a year or so we get more effective vaccines and thus more protection. My guess is we will reach herd immunity about the time of 2024 election.
I don't think we're going see an unemployment rate of less than 5% for at least a year or so and people will dying from coronavirus for many years, hopefully at a greatly reduced rate.
BTW You will never get a 100% guarantee that a vaccine will not harm you. Deaths caused by vaccines are less than 2 per million and in almost all of those cases the person had a compromised immune system or had other conditions. You're probably more likely to get killed by a lightening strike than a vaccine.
I happen to be one of those people. I am 60 years old, and one of my two major medical conditions is the number one condition associated with death. It's one of the reasons I'd be so hesitant to take it.
If we (or others) do develop a vaccine for this thing, it should be able to wipe it out. Unlike the flu, it won't mutate so rapidly or differently, if it does at all. Experts have said if it would, then a weaker much less deadly strain would take it's place, unlike the flu. And if it does again, the next strain will be weaker yet.
Plus I think careless people have become more conscious of cleanliness now. You still can't find hand sanitizer or liquid soap in some stores. Fortunately for me, one of my tenants works at a store where they had and abundance of it because of customer limitations. She brought home some sanitizer for me and I was grateful she did. I should have plenty for while, at least until the shelves get fully stocked again. In addition, GoJo, the people who make Purell, are opening up a factory in my suburb. With some luck, they will let the citizens buy direct from them. And thanks to President Trump, there is this:
US bets on small, untested company to deliver COVID vaccine
When precious vats of COVID-19 vaccine are finally ready, jabbing the lifesaving solution into the arms of Americans will require hundreds of millions of injections.fox8.com
In order to wipe out the coronavirus, we would need a participation much more than the 45% we get with the influenza vaccine. The CDC did a big study of why people don't get the flu vaccine. As it turns only about 2% of the population has medical condition to disqualify them. If everyone that was eligible to take the flu shot did, we would nearly wipe it out. That means last year we would have saved the lives of nearly 57,000 people, prevented an illness that sickens nearly 40 million people plus an economic impact in the hundreds of millions.
- Have had an allergic reaction after a previous dose of influenza vaccine, or have any severe, life-threatening allergies.
- Have ever had Guillain-Barré Syndrome (also called GBS).
With over 50 vaccines in test trials, I don't think we will need to worry about a vaccine being available next year.
I only take the flu shot once in a while. I've known many people who came down with illness after they took the shot. Some years, you get vaccinated for one strain, but a new strain comes out that makes the original vaccine worthless.
I have little doubt a vaccine for Covid will be made, it's just a matter of how effective it is, how many people get it, how many are restricted from getting it, and any serious side-effects many of us will be waiting for before we have confidence it's beneficial to us.
Viruses making you ill go back years when live viruses were used in most vaccines. That is no longer necessary. Today, if one person get's a flu shot and get's sick, they are almost certain to spread the news. However, for the tens of thousands of people that get flu shots and have no reaction at all, they remain silent. Ray, how often do people stop you on the street or call you and say, "Ray, guess what I got a flu yesterday and I feel just fine. My wife and I and most of my brothers and sisters have been getting flu shots every year for over 40 years and I can't remember anyone telling me they got sick. Thy myth that flu shots will make you sick has certainly contributed to the number of people that don't get vaccinated which cost us tens of thousands of lives every year.
I'm sure a majority don't get sick, but if you feel well, and then are faced with the possibility of getting sick because of the shot, you just don't take it. The times I've taken it, I've never experienced such a thing, but that doesn't mean it will always be that way in the future. My sister, who spent much of her life working in the hospital, took the shot and got the flu a week later.
If an when a vaccine comes out, I'm sure a lot of people will have reservations about getting one for some time. We can't deal out the media in this game. They will search high and low for stories of people getting ill or dying, because that's what sells newspapers and brings people to their internet
site, even if it is all bullshit. President Trump is absolutely correct when he says how dishonest most of our media is. They don't care about informing people, they care about making money, even if it's a disadvantage to society as a whole.
There will certainly be a choice.
And Trump is last person you want to hear from about the media.
Because his favorite is OAN, a questionable source, at best.
I have trouble understanding the logic stream of mask Nazis who scream about, "Just wear it, you MUST avoid catching Covid at all costs until there's a vaccine" . . . at which point, they're going to infect me with the disease they insisted I avoid being infected with. I honestly have to wonder if some people don't understand the concept of vaccines.
The reason it takes so long to get a vaccine its the requirement to verify that its effective and that it doesnt cause harm. This requires double-blind randomized trials.
Except that the virus wouldn't cause harm to me, either, any more than any of the other germs I come into contact with every day. And I can acquire immunity that way a hell of a lot faster than I can through FDA approval.
Understand, I don't have a problem with vaccinations for diseases that are a serious threat. As a child, I was vaccinated against measles, mumps, everything but chickenpox (that vaccine didn't exist at the time). All my kids have received the standard childhood vaccinations. And I think a vaccine for Covid-19, assuming an effective one is developed, is a great idea for those in vulnerable populations.
But my post is talking about ME. I don't get flu vaccines every year, because the flu is nothing more than an inconvenience to my immune system, and it's very easy for me to avoid people who are vulnerable to it until after I've caught that year's strain and fought it off. Left to my own devices, instead of being hysterically "protected" by the political hypochondriacs among us, I would actually prefer to simply catch coronavirus, get over it, and move the fuck on to being forced to act like it's the second coming of the Black Death.
I understand your point of view, I really do. But the fact of the matter is, something somewhere is going to get me eventually, and there's ultimately nothing I can do to change that. Yes, obviously I take reasonable steps to keep that from happening too soon, but I don't consider "reasonable" to be defined as "preventing myself from living life while I have it". I think that's where a lot of people have gone off the rails on this.
Keep in mind, my original post wasn't an objection to wearing masks per se. I don't personally care about it, but I wear one when I have to for the sake of the business owners who don't really have a choice about requiring them, or for the sake of people I know who have legitimately serious concerns about the virus (my co-worker, for example, who is caring for an elderly mother). It was just a commentary on the fact that a lot of people genuinely don't seem to understand what vaccines are and how they work.