Baruch Dayan Emmet: Naftali Frenkel, Gil'ad Sha'er, Eyal Yifrach- UPDATES

[Phoenall]

Any information on them?

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

Then you have been walking around with your eyes closed, or you are wearing myopic anti Jew glasses with a red tint to them. The majority of attempted kidnappings have been done by hamas, the majority of rockets are by hamas, the majority of bombs are by hamas. They are incredibly stupid to call down force on their heads because it brings them sympathy.......................

One of my best friends was a member of the IDF's Intifada Snatch Squad, what was their role?

I bet it wasn't to kidnap children and then brutally murder them, more likely to arrest criminals and terrorists in the act and hold them till they came to court.

 

[irosie91]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

 

[Picaro]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

I would find it hard to believe any band of terrorists would be operating in the Hamas and PA controlled areas without the full knowledge and support of either or both of those gangs.

The 'gain' would be provoking a response from Israelis and then running around crying about it, and of course the usual 'calling for Peace' nonsense that will have their media friends writing articles about how oppressed they are and how this wouldn't be happening if the Israelis would only submit to 'peace' policies that will guarantee their genocide; i.e. the usual benefits they will get, along with hundreds of millions from the rest of the world.

Didn't Kerry just lay some $900 million on the gangsters not long ago? They make their livings from this sort of criminal activity. It's very easy to see what they have to gain from it; it's the same sort of thing they've been raking the bucks in for a long time, from NGO's, from Europe, from the U.S., from their Arab backers.

 

[irosie91]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

I would find it hard to believe any band of terrorists would be operating in the Hamas and PA controlled areas without the full knowledge and support of either or both of those gangs.

The 'gain' would be provoking a response from Israelis and then running around crying about it, and of course the usual 'calling for Peace' nonsense that will have their media friends writing articles about how oppressed they are and how this wouldn't be happening if the Israelis would only submit to 'peace' policies that will guarantee their genocide; i.e. the usual benefits they will get, along with hundreds of millions from the rest of the world.

Didn't Kerry just lay some $900 million on the gangsters not long ago? They make their livings from this sort of criminal activity. It's very easy to see what they have to gain from it; it's the same sort of thing they've been raking the bucks in for a long time, from NGO's, from Europe, from the U.S., from their Arab backers.

The most reliable predictor of human behavior----is PAST BEHAVIOR----the "" M.O. "" of Islamic
warfare has been terrorism for 1400 years-------rapes, dead children in the gutter, slit throats,
the holy dictum of the Koran
TERRORIZE THEM UNTIL THEY SURRENDER

for the past 65 years the dogs and pigs have been talking about

A WAR OF ATTRITION

for those who do not understand the words---that means dead children----as many as
possible-----(they could not be so silly? it would give them a bad
reputation???)

yeah right-----like the Muslim turks worried as they went house to house beating people
of all ages and both genders ---to death or simply slitting their throats in 1915---
and the muslims of Nigeria worried as more than a million babies dried up in
the dust----and the muslims of the west Pakistani army worried as they happily
raped 1/4 million girls AT THE BEHEST of their PIOUS MUSLIM PREACHERS ----
for allah----------oh I forgot Khartoum-----the Sudanese worry about
REPUTATION -----too.

It is reputation they seek ----the same kind of reputation the mafia (or
filthy street thugs) seek--------simple-----'do it my way or die'----anyone
interested in the philosophy of HOLY JIHAD----should review history and
read the koran


r

 

[I.P.Freely]

Then you have been walking around with your eyes closed, or you are wearing myopic anti Jew glasses with a red tint to them. The majority of attempted kidnappings have been done by hamas, the majority of rockets are by hamas, the majority of bombs are by hamas. They are incredibly stupid to call down force on their heads because it brings them sympathy.......................

One of my best friends was a member of the IDF's Intifada Snatch Squad, what was their role?

I bet it wasn't to kidnap children and then brutally murder them, more likely to arrest criminals and terrorists in the act and hold them till they came to court.

Courts you are naive. They took "trouble makers" young and old and dispatched summary justice this in some cases included execution.

 

[irosie91]

One of my best friends was a member of the IDF's Intifada Snatch Squad, what was their role?

I bet it wasn't to kidnap children and then brutally murder them, more likely to arrest criminals and terrorists in the act and hold them till they came to court.

Courts you are naive. They took "trouble makers" young and old and dispatched summary justice this in some cases included execution.

really? he slit the throats of elderly jaywalkers and infant bedwetters?

 

[Phoenall]

One of my best friends was a member of the IDF's Intifada Snatch Squad, what was their role?

I bet it wasn't to kidnap children and then brutally murder them, more likely to arrest criminals and terrorists in the act and hold them till they came to court.

Courts you are naive. They took "trouble makers" young and old and dispatched summary justice this in some cases included execution.

Have you read the preceding posts that show just how much the muslims care, now turn it around and see how much we should care.............

 

[Challenger]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

As you're one of the few serious people on this board, I thought I'd reply to you and anyone else who might be interested. Hamas is not behind this tragic episode and neither is Shin Bet/Mossad as others have intimated.

This incident bears all the hallmarks of a local Palestinian clan, the Banu Qawasmeh. They are one of the three largest clans in the Mount Hebron area and have a historical reputation for scuppering any attempts at reconcilliation beteween Hamas and Fateh and also any normalisation of relations between Israel and Hamas/Fateh, such as the cease fire of 2003 that was supposed to end the 2nd Intefada that all the factions agreed to.

During that ceasefire, the Qawasmehs planned and executed a suicide attack on the No.2 bus in Jerusalem, which killed 23 Israelis; this was in revenge for the previous Israeli assassination of Abdullah Qawasmeh. They did something similar in 2004 in Beersheba.

They are a powerful rogue element with, it has to be said, some tenuous links to Hamas' military wing. This of course leaves Hamas in a cleft stick at the moment, as it cannot be seen to publically denounce any attempt to use kidnapping Israelis in order to free Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails, nor is it able to punish the Qawasmehs because it's being forced to lay low by the current (and possible future) Israeli operations in the area.

Hamas makes and always has made a point of claiming responsibility for both its sucesses and its failures; having just reconciled with Fateh, it would be the height of suicidal stupidity to put the deal into question by kidnapping Israelis now.

Regardless of what some of this forum's more strident "Hamas haters" say or even believe, Hamas is not that stupid or that crazy.

 

[irosie91]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

As you're one of the few serious people on this board, I thought I'd reply to you and anyone else who might be interested. Hamas is not behind this tragic episode and neither is Shin Bet/Mossad as others have intimated.

This incident bears all the hallmarks of a local Palestinian clan, the Banu Qawasmeh. They are one of the three largest clans in the Mount Hebron area and have a historical reputation for scuppering any attempts at reconcilliation beteween Hamas and Fateh and also any normalisation of relations between Israel and Hamas/Fateh, such as the cease fire of 2003 that was supposed to end the 2nd Intefada that all the factions agreed to.

During that ceasefire, the Qawasmehs planned and executed a suicide attack on the No.2 bus in Jerusalem, which killed 23 Israelis; this was in revenge for the previous Israeli assassination of Abdullah Qawasmeh. They did something similar in 2004 in Beersheba.

They are a powerful rogue element with, it has to be said, some tenuous links to Hamas' military wing. This of course leaves Hamas in a cleft stick at the moment, as it cannot be seen to publically denounce any attempt to use kidnapping Israelis in order to free Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails, nor is it able to punish the Qawasmehs because it's being forced to lay low by the current (and possible future) Israeli operations in the area.

Hamas makes and always has made a point of claiming responsibility for both its sucesses and its failures; having just reconciled with Fateh, it would be the height of suicidal stupidity to put the deal into question by kidnapping Israelis now.

Regardless of what some of this forum's more strident "Hamas haters" say or even believe, Hamas is not that stupid or that crazy.

Challenge----you may very well be right-----HOWEVER ---hamas is still to blame because
of its teachings and policy. Hamas is very clear in its INSTRUCTION that killing
jews ---especially jewish children --- is ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA. Thus, whether or not
the operation was carried out by Hamas---or not. that organization is guilty of inspiring it.

People in the USA have been convicted of violation of civil rights just for saying "attacking
them is a good idea"

 

[Lipush]

Now- Hundreds of civilians are blocking the roads and entrances to Jerusalem, rioting and protesting the killings of the boys.

 

[MHunterB]

Challenger - that would tend to make sense, yes. It also highlights a problem within Palestinian and Arab society in general, namely that loyalty for most people only goes as far as their clan. It appears that clan loyalties are paramount - over nation, political party, whatever. That's a way of life that goes back many thousands of years - and of course clan leaders are the ones who have the most to lose from this changing.

I wonder if clans like this one, and the Bedouin outlaw clan operating in the Sinai, don't see themselves as warring against the 'Banu Yakub' (Children of Jacob-called-Israel)? Or at least as 'defending their turf' against ALL comers?

Undeniably, this would pose an obstacle to Palestinian statehood which NO amount of pressure on Israel could remove - and possibly no amount of pressure on Abbas or any other Palestinian 'government official' either.

Of course it's not the total explanation for absolutely everything that goes on in the situation - but it's a much more coherent one than all the rhetoric regarding 'race' and 'ideology' which gets tossed around.

 

[Challenger]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

As you're one of the few serious people on this board, I thought I'd reply to you and anyone else who might be interested. Hamas is not behind this tragic episode and neither is Shin Bet/Mossad as others have intimated.

This incident bears all the hallmarks of a local Palestinian clan, the Banu Qawasmeh. They are one of the three largest clans in the Mount Hebron area and have a historical reputation for scuppering any attempts at reconcilliation beteween Hamas and Fateh and also any normalisation of relations between Israel and Hamas/Fateh, such as the cease fire of 2003 that was supposed to end the 2nd Intefada that all the factions agreed to.

During that ceasefire, the Qawasmehs planned and executed a suicide attack on the No.2 bus in Jerusalem, which killed 23 Israelis; this was in revenge for the previous Israeli assassination of Abdullah Qawasmeh. They did something similar in 2004 in Beersheba.

They are a powerful rogue element with, it has to be said, some tenuous links to Hamas' military wing. This of course leaves Hamas in a cleft stick at the moment, as it cannot be seen to publically denounce any attempt to use kidnapping Israelis in order to free Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails, nor is it able to punish the Qawasmehs because it's being forced to lay low by the current (and possible future) Israeli operations in the area.

Hamas makes and always has made a point of claiming responsibility for both its sucesses and its failures; having just reconciled with Fateh, it would be the height of suicidal stupidity to put the deal into question by kidnapping Israelis now.

Regardless of what some of this forum's more strident "Hamas haters" say or even believe, Hamas is not that stupid or that crazy.

Challenge----you may very well be right-----HOWEVER ---hamas is still to blame because
of its teachings and policy. Hamas is very clear in its INSTRUCTION that killing
jews ---especially jewish children --- is ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA. Thus, whether or not
the operation was carried out by Hamas---or not. that organization is guilty of inspiring it.

People in the USA have been convicted of violation of civil rights just for saying "attacking
them is a good idea"

Carefull, you are going onto dangerous ground. If you can blame a group because of it's "teachings and policy" then the corrollary is, you must also blame Zionism, in both it's Christian and Jewish forms and the institutions of the state of Israel who follow it's tenets, for the whole sorry mess in the first place.

In any event, that's no excuse for disproportionate revenge, which is, I hear, being planned as we speak. Find and bring the actual killers to justice, by all means, but another ground invasion of Gaza? Bad move. Operation Cast Lead, demolished Israel's standing in the world community, another massacre of innocent Palestinians will destroy any sympathy gained by the deaths of these young men and given the EU is torn over imposing sanctions on Israel, such an invasion may well be the tipping point.

 

[irosie91]

wrong again challenger------random killing of children is the POLICY of the jihadists ----the
policy which you are defending------it is NOT the policy of Zionists---neither Christian nor
Jewish

currently----it is the POLICY of jihadists in Kenya, Indonesia and-----even in India ----
remember BOMBS IN THE MARKET PLACE FOR DIVALI? attacks on children has
been the backbone of Islamic empire building for 1400 years. It is a policy very difficult to
counter--------clearly your advice is -----give up

 

[I.P.Freely]

Now- Hundreds of civilians are blocking the roads and entrances to Jerusalem, rioting and protesting the killings of the boys.

you are relishing this Klainer gornisht.

 

[Lipush]

Now- Hundreds of civilians are blocking the roads and entrances to Jerusalem, rioting and protesting the killings of the boys.

you are relishing this Klainer gornisht.

I'm bringing the news, if you don't like it, don't read.

Besides pathetic ways of arguing, I really don't find anything useful you bring here, honestly.

 

[Ropey]

As long as there is a single living jew left on the face of this Earth, there will always be strife, greed and hatred for the Goyim.

This kind of thing is more commonplace than one may think. Free speech allows it to be seen and addressed, if not appreciated. I'm more concerned with the people who turn their heads at it and pretend it's not there.

 

[Coyote]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

It looks like, from what I've read - that the boys were kidnapped and killed almost immediately - no holding as hostage, nothing. They were chosen because they were Jewish, an easy target and murdered. That doesn't sound like Hamas - reagardless of people think, they are not stupid people or they would not have gotten as far as they have. Right now, they seem to be striving for some sort of "political legitimacy" in the international arena. An action such as this would turn much of the international community against them.

I just don't see a gain. On the other hand - being able to pin it on Hamas, rather than a couple of individuials or (as I read in one account) a small previously unknown group - would be a gain for Israel, who opposed the unity government and wants Abbas to break it.

 

[Ropey]

Still, there's ~12 million Jews worldwide and half of them live in Israel. Three less, now.

After over 5700 years of attempts to end them? We're not giving it to anyone. Most certainly not for a 57th Islamic state.

Samson calls strongly after this last one.

 

[irosie91]

In all seriousness - I find it hard to believe Hamas, as an organization would be behind it because it would seem an incredibly stupid thing to do - they would have to know the repercussions, it's impossible to see a gain for them.

the gain would be the commission of terrorism-----the weapon used to accomplish
the glorious age of Islamic conquest----anyone interested in the value of terrorism,
should read the koran

It looks like, from what I've read - that the boys were kidnapped and killed almost immediately - no holding as hostage, nothing. They were chosen because they were Jewish, an easy target and murdered. That doesn't sound like Hamas - reagardless of people think, they are not stupid people or they would not have gotten as far as they have. Right now, they seem to be striving for some sort of "political legitimacy" in the international arena. An action such as this would turn much of the international community against them.

I just don't see a gain. On the other hand - being able to pin it on Hamas, rather than a couple of individuials or (as I read in one account) a small previously unknown group - would be a gain for Israel, who opposed the unity government and wants Abbas to break it.[/QUOTE

so every person who supports Hamas----thinks with ONE MIND---or is under
the direct-----minute by minute control of some sort of SUPREME LEADER----
or Tribunal made up of single minded geniuses? My impression is a more loosely
constructed organization------at least as loosely organized as-----the Likud party and
the IDF-------the members of which have been known to express themselves thru
both action and word------with sparks of individuality. I am certainly impressed that
the brilliant----reputation minded HAMAS supports bomb on behind murder as an
expression of religious piety. Its a very creative way to enhance reputation. It is nice
of the 'previously unknown group' to aid the Zionist cause-----reminds me of Adolf's
service to the cause of zionism

 

[fanger]

Still, there's ~12 million Jews worldwide and half of them live in Israel. Three less, now.

After over 5700 years of attempts to end them? We're not giving it to anyone. Most certainly not for a 57th Islamic state.

Samson calls strongly after this last one.

The Samson Option is the name that some military analysts have given to Israel's hypothetical deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence.

Samson Option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia