Bakers fined for not working homosexual "wedding" continue fighting for their freedoms

[Syriusly]

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people"

Remarks by the President at a Campaign Event in Roanoke, Virginia

Anyone who fell for that is either really gullible or really really gullible.

Sometimes they are just bigots and liars

 

[BlindBoo]

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

I want cars to stop for a red light.

Apparently that makes me an 'authoritarian'

Because I think people should follow the law.

Fascist Authoritarian Nazi.......

</sarcasm>

 

[Dragonlady]

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

Telling a company which bakes cakes for weddings that they cannot discriminate against gay customers is not "forcing your beliefs on others". That would be forcing the bakers to marry gays. No one is doing that. All they are being required to do is to bake the ******* cake.

 

[Iceweasel]

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

I want cars to stop for a red light.

Apparently that makes me an 'authoritarian'

Because I think people should follow the law.

Whoooosh. The conversation is WAY over your head.

 

[Iceweasel]

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

Enforcing anti-discrimination laws PA on the business community is bound to piss of those who feel the need to discriminate for whatever reason.

You can't defend your authoritarianism by making it wrong for someone to resist the values you ordered them to have.

 

[Iceweasel]

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people"

Remarks by the President at a Campaign Event in Roanoke, Virginia

Anyone who fell for that is either really gullible or really really gullible.

Don't try to pass your stupidity off on me, have a grade schooler walk you through it.


“There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me because they want to give something back,” the president said. “If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said. “The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

 

[rightwinger]

Just now I'm arguing on another thread with a person I suspect is a lawyer (but saying he is not) about his perceived interpretation of law that it's OK to hurt Christian children psychologically at schools by having a group meet on campus (the Satanists; who's professed intent for doing so is the embodiment of belittling or maligning others of faith). You really cannot make this shit up. He actually is arguing for a climate of bullying (of religious kids via taught-disdain) to re-blossom on the playground..

"Hurt Christian children psychologically" - you are making shit up now aren't you? How about hurting gay children psychologically, or gay adults for that matter? That one cuts both ways.

And your highway sign analogy is a total fail. Highway billboards don't come under the heading "public accommodations", so no, you cannot force anyone to put up a billboard.

Again, when so-called Christian bakers refuse to bake a wedding cake for a other classes of sinners, you will have an argument, but you can't pick and choose which sinners you won't serve. Serve one sinner, serve them all.

So the Jewish baker MUST make the cake for the Oregon Nazi party?

Depends...what is their race, religion, national origin or sexual orientation?

 

[Iceweasel]

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

Telling a company which bakes cakes for weddings that they cannot discriminate against gay customers is not "forcing your beliefs on others". That would be forcing the bakers to marry gays. No one is doing that. All they are being required to do is to bake the ******* cake.

Wrong. If it's against your religion or morals to participate in the lie that like gender relationships are equal to opposite gender then the government has gone well beyond the founder's intent. It must be rolled back, the leftists have gone too far.

 

[P@triot]

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

Man alive....only a progressive could deny video.

 

[BlindBoo]

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

Enforcing anti-discrimination laws PA on the business community is bound to piss of those who feel the need to discriminate for whatever reason.

You can't defend your authoritarianism by making it wrong for someone to resist the values you ordered them to have.

The baker is free to hate his gay and lesbion customers, just not free to deny them service.

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people"

Remarks by the President at a Campaign Event in Roanoke, Virginia

Anyone who fell for that is either really gullible or really really gullible.

Don't try to pass your stupidity off on me, have a grade schooler walk you through it.


“There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me because they want to give something back,” the president said. “If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said. “The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

Yeah see, only the stupid or the willing to be perceived as stupid, would think the president was mocking an individuals business instead of singing praises of the system that was built to facilitate businesses.

 

[BlindBoo]

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

Man alive....only a progressive could deny video.

Only a pseudo-con could believe the lies from the talking head based on a few second clip compared listening to the entire speech and making up their own minds.....

Can you say intentional dumbing down?

 

[P@triot]

The baker is free to hate his gay and lesbion customers, just not free to deny them service.

And who derives the power to tell the baker they can't refuse their labor to someone and where do they derive that power?

(Psst...the accurate answer is "it doesn't exist")

 

[P@triot]

Only a pseudo-con could believe the lies from the talking head based on a few second clip compared listening to the entire speech and making up their own minds.....

Can you say intentional dumbing down?

Here's the thing buttercup...I was listening live on XM radio in my office when Obama gave that speech. I heard the entire thing and I nearly fell out of my chair when he said "if you have a business, you didn't build that".

 

[BlindBoo]

Only a pseudo-con could believe the lies from the talking head based on a few second clip compared listening to the entire speech and making up their own minds.....

Can you say intentional dumbing down?

Here's the thing buttercup...I was listening live on XM radio in my office when Obama gave that speech. I heard the entire thing and I nearly fell out of my chair when he said "if you have a business, you didn't build that".

So you're just stupid? Is that it Sweet Pea?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Gays can go to the bakery and buy any ******* cake they want. Stick their own figures on top of it and instant wedding cake. No one has ever stopped them.

 

[BlindBoo]

Gays can go to the bakery and buy any ******* cake they want. Stick their own figures on top of it and instant wedding cake. No one has ever stopped them.

Do they offer Wedding Cakes to the public? Well, 'did they' I guess is the appropriate term.........

 

[WorldWatcher]

So the Jewish baker MUST make the cake for the Oregon Nazi party?

Depends...what is their race, religion, national origin or sexual orientation?

No it dosen't depend on their race, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.

If a baker refuses to bake Nazi cakes for anyone, regardless of their race, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.

If a baker DOES bake Nazi cakes for everyone but won't see them to Jewish person, then it's not the cake that is the issue its the customer - that would be a violation under Oregon Law.


Same if a baker bakes wedding cakes and sell them to anyone regardless of race, religion, or national origin - but refuses to sell to gay customers. Is not the cake the baker won't produce, it's the customer. In that case (as we've seen from the Oregon law and court rulings) then the baker is in violation of the law.



>>>>

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Gays can go to the bakery and buy any ******* cake they want. Stick their own figures on top of it and instant wedding cake. No one has ever stopped them.

Do they offer Wedding Cakes to the public? Well, 'did they' I guess is the appropriate term.........

Wedding cakes are offered as part of a separate and private contract. No one has ever prevented or even objected to gays going into any bakery and buying anything they want. The bakers are complaining about being forced into a contract against their will.

This is like the old argument that a prostitute can't be raped. She is compelled to have sex with any man that throws a few bucks her way. He paid for the service. She can't discriminate. It is not rape even if he holds her down and she's screaming.

 

[Silhouette]

Same if a baker bakes wedding cakes and sell them to anyone regardless of race, religion, or national origin - but refuses to sell to gay customers. Is not the cake the baker won't produce, it's the customer. In that case (as we've seen from the Oregon law and court rulings) then the baker is in violation of the law.

Example #1: A Jewish baker has a nazi walk in, plain clothes, no identifying features on his person that he's a nazi. The nazi asks the Jew to bake him a yellow cake with chocolate frosting; maybe some sprinkles on top and a rose or something. The Jew bakes him the cake and nobody is the wiser.

Example #2: A Jewish baker has a nazi walk in, wearing a swastika armband and asks the Jew to make him a cake with a swastika emblem frosted on top with the caption "Happy Nazi-Pride Day!". The Jew refuses, as is his right. The nazi here is inviting the Jew to be party to celebrating something the Jew is loathe to do from deep personal convictions. Even when the Jew isn't citing his religious objections; because in the Torah, there's nothing stated about "you must not associate with nazis under pain of eternal damnation". Yet nobody but the nazis would contest the Jew was in his rights to refuse.

Example #1a: A Christian baker has a gay man walk in his shop, plain clothes, no identifying features on his person that he is gay. Even if he did identify he was gay, it wouldn't matter because to a Christian, it's "hate the sin, not the sinner". The gay asks the Christian to bake him a cake, strawberry, with vanilla icing. Maybe some chocolate chips on top with some irises frosted. The Christian bakes him the cake without violating his faith.

Example #2a: A Christian baker has two gay men walk in his shop, hanging all over each other, snuggling and kissing on the mouth. They ask the Christian baker to bake them a wedding cake that says "Happy Marriage, Adam & Steve". The Christian refuses, as is his right. The homosexuals here are inviting the Christian to be party to celebrating something the Christian is loathe to do from deep personal convictions. Yet there is something mentioned directly in the Bible about facilitating the spread of homosexuality as a cultural value; under pain of eternal damnation of the Christian's soul. His passive refusal is his right because this is no longer about an individual homosexual; it's about promoting homosexuality as a new cultural value: which is strictly forbidden by the New Testament of Jesus Christ in Jude 1.

Since both nazism and homosexuality are behaviors; ideologies peculiar to certain people signing up, the decision by the 7th circuit court of appeals finding that sexual-orientation is not covered under the 1964 Civil Rights Act is important here. So I don't want to hear any comparisons about "what if a black person walked into a store and they refused because their belief is that black people suck"...or whatever. Race is covered under the Act. Same if it was a woman. Same if it was a man.

And, if a gay baker wanted to refuse to bake a cake for a Christian celebration; it would be his right as well. If his deepest beliefs are "Christianity is an affront to my personal beliefs!", he'd be in his right to refuse. He'd go broke of course. But that is his choice to make.

 

[P@triot]

Only a pseudo-con could believe the lies from the talking head based on a few second clip compared listening to the entire speech and making up their own minds.....

Can you say intentional dumbing down?

Here's the thing buttercup...I was listening live on XM radio in my office when Obama gave that speech. I heard the entire thing and I nearly fell out of my chair when he said "if you have a business, you didn't build that".

So you're just stupid? Is that it Sweet Pea?

Trying to back peddle now buttercup? First you proclaimed that the clip was edited down to give a false impression. When I told you that I listened to that entire speech live as it was given - you then have to give up on your previous narrative and go to a personal attack. Weak. Very weak.