Bakers fined for not working homosexual "wedding" continue fighting for their freedoms

[Iceweasel]

The State has every right to regulate businesses within it's borders. That is not a belief. Businesses must follow the regulations or they get fined and stuff.......does nothing to stop them from expressing their faith or beliefs. It does stop them from discriminating.

States and cities do regulate business. The point is that they have broadened what those regulations are to the point of picking and choosing their pet causes. Yes, you do stop someone from exercising their beliefs if you force them to make something against their value system. That can only happen through draconian misuse of government and your argument is it's fine since it exists.

 

[P@triot]

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

The real problem is that Boo actually believes that private business is an extension of government. Think of that idiotic statement "The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business" as if it were "separation of church and state". He/she has bought into the progressive lie that business is simply an extension of government which owes society.

 

[Silhouette]

Highway billboards don't come under the heading "public accommodations", so no, you cannot force anyone to put up a billboard.

Wait.....what?!? Are you the biggest idiot ever Dragonlady?!? The sign company - which is open to the public - comes under your precious little "public accommodations" laws. So by your own idiotic views, the homosexual sign maker would be forced to make a sign saying "all homosexuals are filthy animals that will burn in hell".

Funny how you're suddenly not so keen on "public accommodation laws", uh stupid?

She's pretending not to know everything you just pointed out to her...

Yes Dragonlady, under your precious PA laws, a gay designer would be forced to print "homosexuality is a sin unto God" on a huge highway billboard sign, no matter what his deeply held belief system was. And, a Jewish baker would be required to bake a cake for a customer wanting it expressly for his "Nazi-Pride Event" (complete with swastika icing design), or he would be fined and lose his license.

Public accommodation from ANY company open to the public, is PA no matter what, across the board or not at all. The 1st Amendment says "not at all". And when the Klein's case reaches the USSC, they also will say "not at all". My guess is with none dissenting: not even Kagan or Ginsburg would be bold enough to try to remove the 1st Amendment from the Constitution by judicial fiat....behind the Legislature's back...

 

[WorldWatcher]

Might want to read Hively v Ivy Tech (7th circuit 2016) which found that homosexuals aren't covered under the 1964 Civil Rights Act because homosexuality is a behavior and not a static class.

No it didn't. Hively v. Ivy Tech noted that sexual orienation was not mentioned in the act, it made no claim about "behaviors".

This case though has nothing to do with the 1964 Civil Rights Act or Federal Law, the Oregon Public Accommodation law specifically identifies various "behaviors" (your word not mine) that are protected under the law including religion, sexual orienation, and marital status.


>>>>

 

[BlindBoo]

Oregon was the State that passed the PA law that included protection for the LGBT community. This is a States Rights issue.

...because it isn't a constitutional one.

Right, because the SC has already set the precedent that the state can protect the LBGT community with PA laws.

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee



I got called a Nazi too.

 

[WorldWatcher]

So the Jewish baker MUST make the cake for the Oregon Nazi party?

Nope, Nazi's are not covered under the Oregon Public Accommodation law.


>>>>

 

[Silhouette]

No it didn't. Hively v. Ivy Tech noted that sexual orienation was not mentioned in the act, it made no claim about "behaviors".

You say Po-TAA-to. I say Po-ta-to. .... Gee, what exactly is sexual orientation then if not behavioral?

 

[Silhouette]

Nope, Nazi's are not covered under the Oregon Public Accommodation law.


>>>>

Why not? They're a group of behaviors repugnant to the majority that have given themselves a label. If "LGBT" gets protection, so do they. What's more repugnant? White supremacists or men doing anal sex and spreading our country's latest deadly epidemic by leaps and bounds over other demographics (the most escalating victims of said gay-spread epidemic being boys ages 13-24)? Between the two groups' socially-contagious behaviors to impressionable youth, I know which one is killing more people every year than the other...

 

[BlindBoo]

The State has every right to regulate businesses within it's borders.

No - really - it doesn't. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true Boo.

That is not a belief.

Yes it is. It is your horribly misguided and misinformed belief. A belief built out of the progressive ideology of "bow to unlimited government power for the perceived good of the collective".

Businesses must follow the regulations or they get fined and stuff.......

Yeah? And? No shit. That's not what is being debated here.

does nothing to stop them from expressing their faith or beliefs. It does stop them from discriminating.

Government cannot discriminate. A private citizen on private property can. I can choose to invite every straight person in the world over and tell homosexuals they are not welcome. Or I can invite every woman in the world over and tell men they are not welcome. And there's not a ****'n thing you or the government can do about it. Know why? Because the Constitution protects my private property and my beliefs. And your perceived moral superiority does not supersede my rights.

You're falling miserably at this Boo. Would you like to try one more time or would you rather just admit that you can't justify your position because you are 100% wrong? I'm good either way.

Do you own a business open to the public?

 

[Iceweasel]

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

The real problem is that Boo actually believes that private business is an extension of government. Think of that idiotic statement "The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business" as if it were "separation of church and state". He/she has bought into the progressive lie that business is simply an extension of government which owes society.

Yep. You didn't build that business. Government gives you permission to breathe their air and drive on their roads so they have the right to micro-manage your business.

 

[WorldWatcher]

No it didn't. Hively v. Ivy Tech noted that sexual orienation was not mentioned in the act, it made no claim about "behaviors".

You say Po-TAA-to. I say Po-ta-to. .... Gee, what exactly is sexual orientation then if not behavioral?

Sexual orientation is the gender one is attracted to, it is not an act.

For example a celebrate Priest can be heterosexual or homosexual and not commit any sex acts. They are still homosexual, heterosexual, or maybe even bisexual. However if they don't perform any acts they have not exhibited a "behavior" (your term not mine), but they still have a sexual orientation.



>>>>

 

[Iceweasel]

The State has every right to regulate businesses within it's borders.

No - really - it doesn't. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true Boo.

That is not a belief.

Yes it is. It is your horribly misguided and misinformed belief. A belief built out of the progressive ideology of "bow to unlimited government power for the perceived good of the collective".

Businesses must follow the regulations or they get fined and stuff.......

Yeah? And? No shit. That's not what is being debated here.

does nothing to stop them from expressing their faith or beliefs. It does stop them from discriminating.

Government cannot discriminate. A private citizen on private property can. I can choose to invite every straight person in the world over and tell homosexuals they are not welcome. Or I can invite every woman in the world over and tell men they are not welcome. And there's not a ****'n thing you or the government can do about it. Know why? Because the Constitution protects my private property and my beliefs. And your perceived moral superiority does not supersede my rights.

You're falling miserably at this Boo. Would you like to try one more time or would you rather just admit that you can't justify your position because you are 100% wrong? I'm good either way.

Do you own a business open to the public?

I have for 32 years. And you?

 

[Iceweasel]

...because it isn't a constitutional one.

Right, because the SC has already set the precedent that the state can protect the LBGT community with PA laws.

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

 

[BlindBoo]

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

 

[Iceweasel]

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

Fake meme?

 

[BlindBoo]

Right, because the SC has already set the precedent that the state can protect the LBGT community with PA laws.

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

Enforcing anti-discrimination laws PA on the business community is bound to piss of those who feel the need to discriminate for whatever reason.

 

[BlindBoo]

You didn't build that

Ah the fake meme that helped doom Romney in 2012.

Fake meme?

Yeah fake. (not just a 55 second clip of a half hour speech.)

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people"

Remarks by the President at a Campaign Event in Roanoke, Virginia

Anyone who fell for that is either really gullible or really really gullible.

 

[Syriusly]

Another disingenuous false narrative. Homosexuals always had equal protection.

Nope. There were laws passed to specifically target homosexuals in America- and law enforcement specifically targeted gay Americans for persecution. Now that the homophobic bigots can't legally discriminate against homosexuals, they claim they are the victims.

No matter what how many times you tell that lie it will still be a lie.

LOL- I know you lie to yourself but you don't have to lie to us.

Fact is that for years- asshole bigots like yourself promoted laws that would discriminate against Americans who were homosexuals.

Now you are pissed off that those laws are no longer in effect.

Which makes me happy.

 

[Syriusly]

....if the majority of the People didn't want gay marriage to be legal...

What do you mean "if"? Aside from the polls which shows the American people overwhelmingly reject it, all one has to do is look at Proposition 8 in California. When the most liberal state in the union votes down gay marriage, it's pretty clear that American people reject it.

What - have you really convinced yourself in your mind that the people of Utah, Texas, and Florida are supporting it while Californians aren't?

Gay federal judge and later SCOTUS overturned the will of the people.

Gay federal judge and the Supreme Court upheld the United States Constitution.

Homophobic bigots are pissed off that a gay federal judge and the Supreme Court upheld the United States Constitution.

 

[Syriusly]

Right, because the SC has already set the precedent that the state can protect the LBGT community with PA laws.

You missed the point entirely. They needed the PA laws because it wasn't in the constitution. There isn't anything to prevent them but that isn't the point. Freedom of association and religious freedom is constitutional but political correctness has overridden it. Like they did with abortion.

The issue isn't about Freedom of association or Religion. It's strictly business.

That is the issue. You think you are God and can determine others' values for them. You do so because you are a control freak leftist and those like you had to create laws apart from the Constitution, which does protect association and religion. You would force a Jew to bake a Nazi cake so that makes you the Nazi.

Thinking a bakery shop open to the public, should bake a cake for a customer is hardly worthy of being call a supernatural creature.


Wheeeeeeee


I got called a Nazi too.

I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. The bottom line is that you want to force your values onto others. That makes you an authoritarian.

I want cars to stop for a red light.

Apparently that makes me an 'authoritarian'

Because I think people should follow the law.