Baker Who Won’t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

[martybegan]

How about, we can get rid of PA laws when Yahoos stop burning Mosques in Tennessee.

How 'bout we arrest the goons burning mosques, and leave everyone else freedom of conscience?

I'm just wondering what the Muslim family in TN is supposed to do if nobody will sell them food or fuel...

Someone will always sell someone something, and the case for forbidding sale discrimination of necessities that are buy and carry is far stronger than a non critical service such as baking or wedding photography.

 

[dblack]

I generally posted private discrimination should not be illegal. I cannot see any real possibility of what that discrimination could be based upon, besides orientation, that would not be met with overwhelming public condemnation.

I also don't buy any moral linkage to discrimination against blacks and against the GLBT. The immorality of racial discrimination was undeniable and could not have any valid underpinnings. JFK and Dirksen both saw that, and it overcame their own misgivings about the govt acting on private actions. I think the Christian bakers are hypocrites who hide their spite behind holier than thou smugness, and they need to have it wiped off their faces. But with a law? Not, imo. In 1960, peaceful protest against private discrimination was not allowed. That's not the case today.

But that's jmo. I'm not going to say those people who think public accommodation laws don't have reasonable views.

Remember that public accommodations laws address more than just discrimination, they also address the issue of regulating the markets to ensure their integrity.

To allow businesses that serve the general public to refuse to offer goods and services to patrons solely as a consequence of their race, religion, or sexual orientation would clearly be disruptive to the local market; and because all markets are interrelated, such a disruption would adversely effect other markets across the state and eventually across the Nation.

Public accommodations laws are therefore necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory measures designed to safeguard the integrity of the markets, as state and local jurisdictions are authorized to do by the Commerce Clause.

Indeed. If we assume the commerce clause grants government broad authority to dictate our economic decisions, thought crime is just the beginning.

 

[Ibentoken]

So do racists. They believe their racist interpretation of the bible just as devoutly as you believe your anti gay interpretation. Only the targets change, bigots don't.

And so do queers and leftists. You have one problem.....I'm not a racist.

Wow, you are still completely missing the point.

Nope. The fact that racists and queers and leftists twist scripture is the point. I don't.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Sure, if that makes you feel better. The CRA says I must serve the Christian. He should have to serve me too if that is the case don't you think?

1st, what part of your belief structure is offended by serving a christian, second, if you are talking about walking into a store and being able to buy something IDENTICAL to what another person is buying, how is that the same as forcing someone to make a cake for a specific event that is contrary to their religious beliefs?

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

 

[WorldWatcher]

1st, what part of your belief structure is offended by serving a christian, second, if you are talking about walking into a store and being able to buy something IDENTICAL to what another person is buying, how is that the same as forcing someone to make a cake for a specific event that is contrary to their religious beliefs?

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

That's not what Seawytch said. What she said was:

1. If Public Accommodation laws are in place that prevent her from refusing service (in her private business which sells to the public) to Christians that wish to discriminate against her then the law should also exist so that Christians can't discriminate against her because of her beliefs that she doesn't want to sell to Christians that support discrimination.

2. On the other hand I believe that Seawytch multiple times as supported the idea that Public Accommodation laws in general be repealed and that no one have such protections under the law involving private businesses and their decisions to sell (or not sell) to a customer group.​

Your characterization of her position is incorrect, as I remember it.


*******************************

[MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]

Did I read your position correctly?



>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

That's not what Seawytch said. What she said was:

1. If Public Accommodation laws are in place that prevent her from refusing service (in her private business which sells to the public) to Christians that wish to discriminate against her then the law should also exist so that Christians can't discriminate against her because of her beliefs that she doesn't want to sell to Christians that support discrimination.

2. On the other hand I believe that Seawytch multiple times as supported the idea that Public Accommodation laws in general be repealed and that no one have such protections under the law involving private businesses and their decisions to sell (or not sell) to a customer group.​

Your characterization of her position is incorrect, as I remember it.


*******************************

[MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]

Did I read your position correctly?



>>>>

Yes, I would say you summed it up quite nicely for me, thank you.

I'm not sure we're "there" yet, getting rid of PA laws, but I'd be willing to give it the old college try...

Of course, nobody outside of message boards about the gays even talks about repealing PA laws so I don't see a lot of political will for it. From where I sit, people only care about these laws whenever gays get added to them.

 

[martybegan]

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

That's not what Seawytch said. What she said was:

1. If Public Accommodation laws are in place that prevent her from refusing service (in her private business which sells to the public) to Christians that wish to discriminate against her then the law should also exist so that Christians can't discriminate against her because of her beliefs that she doesn't want to sell to Christians that support discrimination.

2. On the other hand I believe that Seawytch multiple times as supported the idea that Public Accommodation laws in general be repealed and that no one have such protections under the law involving private businesses and their decisions to sell (or not sell) to a customer group.​

Your characterization of her position is incorrect, as I remember it.


*******************************

[MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]

Did I read your position correctly?



>>>>

Yes, I would say you summed it up quite nicely for me, thank you.

I'm not sure we're "there" yet, getting rid of PA laws, but I'd be willing to give it the old college try...

Of course, nobody outside of message boards about the gays even talks about repealing PA laws so I don't see a lot of political will for it. From where I sit, people only care about these laws whenever gays get added to them.

Maybe its because gays are the only ones suing over things like this.

 

[Seawytch]

1st, what part of your belief structure is offended by serving a christian, second, if you are talking about walking into a store and being able to buy something IDENTICAL to what another person is buying, how is that the same as forcing someone to make a cake for a specific event that is contrary to their religious beliefs?

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

And again, you can't. You can't refuse service to people because of their skin color, religion, gender, country of origin or disability. In some locales that includes gays.

Either get rid of ALL protections or STFU when gays get added to them.

 

[Seawytch]

That's not what Seawytch said. What she said was:

1. If Public Accommodation laws are in place that prevent her from refusing service (in her private business which sells to the public) to Christians that wish to discriminate against her then the law should also exist so that Christians can't discriminate against her because of her beliefs that she doesn't want to sell to Christians that support discrimination.

2. On the other hand I believe that Seawytch multiple times as supported the idea that Public Accommodation laws in general be repealed and that no one have such protections under the law involving private businesses and their decisions to sell (or not sell) to a customer group.​

Your characterization of her position is incorrect, as I remember it.


*******************************

[MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]

Did I read your position correctly?



>>>>

Yes, I would say you summed it up quite nicely for me, thank you.

I'm not sure we're "there" yet, getting rid of PA laws, but I'd be willing to give it the old college try...

Of course, nobody outside of message boards about the gays even talks about repealing PA laws so I don't see a lot of political will for it. From where I sit, people only care about these laws whenever gays get added to them.

Maybe its because gays are the only ones suing over things like this.

Maybe because gays are the only ones people still think it's okay to discriminate against. They'll learn.

 

[dblack]

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

And again, you can't. You can't refuse service to people because of their skin color, religion, gender, country of origin or disability. In some locales that includes gays.

Either get rid of ALL protections or STFU when gays get added to them.

Exactly. This is the essence of corporatism. Special rights for special people.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, I would say you summed it up quite nicely for me, thank you.

I'm not sure we're "there" yet, getting rid of PA laws, but I'd be willing to give it the old college try...

Of course, nobody outside of message boards about the gays even talks about repealing PA laws so I don't see a lot of political will for it. From where I sit, people only care about these laws whenever gays get added to them.

Maybe its because gays are the only ones suing over things like this.

Maybe because gays are the only ones people still think it's okay to discriminate against. They'll learn.

Again, what you want is acceptance from people, and you are not going to get it. Your lifestyle is sinful in the eyes of some, and they do not want to associate with you. The fact that you cannot accept this and have decided that such people must suffer shows how callous and spiteful you are. Sexuality is not race, no matter how much you try to make it the same.

 

[Seawytch]

Maybe its because gays are the only ones suing over things like this.

Maybe because gays are the only ones people still think it's okay to discriminate against. They'll learn.

Again, what you want is acceptance from people, and you are not going to get it. Your lifestyle is sinful in the eyes of some, and they do not want to associate with you. The fact that you cannot accept this and have decided that such people must suffer shows how callous and spiteful you are. Sexuality is not race, no matter how much you try to make it the same.

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

 

[dblack]

It's my "deeply held belief" that I shouldn't have to serve Christians. That isn't good enough for you? I thought you subscribed to the "right to refuse service for any reason" adage. Were you lying?

Again: you should be free to refuse service to anyone you wish for any reason.

The critical difference: I want you to have that right. You want to take it away from everyone!

And again, you can't. You can't refuse service to people because of their skin color, religion, gender, country of origin or disability. In some locales that includes gays.

Either get rid of ALL protections or STFU when gays get added to them.

My hope is that, by adding more and more "protected classes", we'll recognize that approach for what it is, and go back to universal rights instead.

 

[martybegan]

Maybe because gays are the only ones people still think it's okay to discriminate against. They'll learn.

Again, what you want is acceptance from people, and you are not going to get it. Your lifestyle is sinful in the eyes of some, and they do not want to associate with you. The fact that you cannot accept this and have decided that such people must suffer shows how callous and spiteful you are. Sexuality is not race, no matter how much you try to make it the same.

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

 

[Seawytch]

Again, what you want is acceptance from people, and you are not going to get it. Your lifestyle is sinful in the eyes of some, and they do not want to associate with you. The fact that you cannot accept this and have decided that such people must suffer shows how callous and spiteful you are. Sexuality is not race, no matter how much you try to make it the same.

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

I already did. I posted over a half dozen bible quotes used by segregationists and anti miscegenation. It doesn't matter if YOU believe it's sinful, they did. How come your bigotry trumps theirs?

 

[dblack]

Again, what you want is acceptance from people, and you are not going to get it. Your lifestyle is sinful in the eyes of some, and they do not want to associate with you. The fact that you cannot accept this and have decided that such people must suffer shows how callous and spiteful you are. Sexuality is not race, no matter how much you try to make it the same.

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

At 50, I'm still learning new words.

 

[martybegan]

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

I already did. I posted over a half dozen bible quotes used by segregationists and anti miscegenation. It doesn't matter if YOU believe it's sinful, they did. How come your bigotry trumps theirs?

Its not my bigotry. I'm fighting for the rights of people to run their businesses as the please. I have no issue selling anything to gay people.

 

[martybegan]

Nope, just equality. Acceptance equals agreement. I don't give a shit if you agree or not, you just have to deal. Blacks and whites marrying is sinful to some people. Those people have to suck it up and so do you.

Religion is not a race and yet it has Federal protections. Imagine that.

The fact that you cannot accept that you get special protections in all places and I get them in a few makes you a whiney *****.

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

At 50, I'm still learning new words.

******* spell check.....

 

[Desperado]

The commission’s order requires Phillips to design wedding cakes for same-sex ceremonies in violation of his beliefs, institute re-education classes for his staff on the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act and send quarterly “compliance” reports to the commission for two years.

Re-education classes for any reason goes against the principals of the United States.
The whole concept is totally unacceptable in a free country.

 

[bodecea]

Again show me where miscegenation is accepted in the bible.

and its all about acceptance, no matter how much you deny it.

I already did. I posted over a half dozen bible quotes used by segregationists and anti miscegenation. It doesn't matter if YOU believe it's sinful, they did. How come your bigotry trumps theirs?

Its not my bigotry. I'm fighting for the rights of people to run their businesses as the please. I have no issue selling anything to gay people.

Where were you in the 1950s when Woolworths ended up not running their lunch counters as they pleased?