Bailouts = Depression

[neurosport]

Wealth is destroyed during riots when people break windows and set cars on fire.

During a depression wealth is neither created nor destroyed - it is transferred.

What do bailouts do ? They don't create wealth, don't destroy it - they transfer it.

Bailouts therefore don't serve to end the depression. they ARE the depression.

 

[Toro]

During a depression, wealth is destroyed. That's why they call it a "depression."

 

[editec]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

 

[Ravi]

Actually, breaking windows and burning cars creates wealth for the makers of those products.

 

[neurosport]

Actually, breaking windows and burning cars creates wealth for the makers of those products.

have you heard about the broken window fallacy ?

Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when you break windows you destroy wealth ...

 

[neurosport]

During a depression, wealth is destroyed. That's why they call it a "depression."

i am not following your logic.

what does depression have to do with destruction ?

depression means decrease in economic activity.

 

[neurosport]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

you are a Fascist.

you have some kind of a problem with freedom.

an idle worker is a BROTHA CHILLEN !

employment is a MEANS not an END.

 

[Ravi]

Actually, breaking windows and burning cars creates wealth for the makers of those products.

have you heard about the broken window fallacy ?

Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when you break windows you destroy wealth ...

Only if you leave them broken. Otherwise, you actually do create wealth.

 

[editec]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

you are a Fascist.

you have some kind of a problem with freedom.

an idle worker is a BROTHA CHILLEN !

employment is a MEANS not an END.

I am a fascist because I understand that wealth is a concept?

I am a fascist because I understand that wealth is something that mankind creates?

Do you know what fascism actually is?

Apparently not.

Apparently you are steeped ignorance about all things economic and political science, too.

Probably explains why you believe what you believe.

Belief is that thing which requires no facts to have it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually, breaking windows and burning cars creates wealth for the makers of those products.

have you heard about the broken window fallacy ?

Parable of the broken window - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when you break windows you destroy wealth ...

Only if you leave them broken. Otherwise, you actually do create wealth.

Not really. Because when one had a window, he had money to buy a new suit, or a new pair of shoes etc. When that window is broken and the owner replaces it with the money that now will not buy something else, all he has is a window and not a window AND a new pair of shoes or a new suit.

If we expand on your supposition, we would rightly say that leveling all the houses in a town to create work for construction companies is actually creating wealth. No?

 

[neurosport]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

you are a Fascist.

you have some kind of a problem with freedom.

an idle worker is a BROTHA CHILLEN !

employment is a MEANS not an END.

I am a fascist because I understand that wealth is a concept?

I am a fascist because I understand that wealth is something that mankind creates?

Do you know what fascism actually is?

Apparently not.

Apparently you are steeped ignorance about all things economic and political science, too.

Probably explains why you believe what you believe.

Belief is that thing which requires no facts to have it.

you are an idiot. fascism is capitalism minus freedom. in other words WHAT YOU STAND FOR.

you don't understand SHIT - don't even kid yourself.

 

[editec]

So shall we waste our time trading personal insults?

Is that what you think passes for interesting posting, Neuro?

Sorry, amigo, that pastime doesn't amuse me.

 

[Iriemon]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

Exactly, millions sitting around not working are consuming wealth and not creating it.

A stimulus is designed to get folks more into producing wealth by transferring it from capital to productivity when the market isn't doing it for whatever reason, in this case the credit crisis.

 

[Skull Pilot]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

Exactly, millions sitting around not working are consuming wealth and not creating it.

A stimulus is designed to get folks more into producing wealth by transferring it from capital to productivity when the market isn't doing it for whatever reason, in this case the credit crisis.

Government make work projects are not wealth producers.

And the government taking and spending tax dollars from the private sector is not the same as using capital. In fact all the government is doing is lessening the ability of the private sector to produce wealth by confiscating that money via taxes.

Tell me how endlessly repaving existing highways produces wealth when all that money taken via taxes to pay for it is taken from people who would have used it to start a new business, or to invest in an existing business, or to buy a home or put an addition on their home, or to buy a new car or motorcycle etc etc.

Add to it the certainty that a good percentage of that tax money will be eaten up by the bureaucracy never to reach its intended target where a full 100% of that money, if used by the private sector, would have been utilized for its intended purpose and tell me again how the government creates wealth via taxes.

And please, do not turn this into a tax, anti tax argument. I am not advocating no taxes but I am merely stating that the government taking tax dollars from the public and spending them does not produce wealth, it merely lessens the ability of the public to produce wealth there by resulting in a transfer of funds to a less efficient mechanism of use.

 

[Iriemon]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

Exactly, millions sitting around not working are consuming wealth and not creating it.

A stimulus is designed to get folks more into producing wealth by transferring it from capital to productivity when the market isn't doing it for whatever reason, in this case the credit crisis.

Government make work projects are not wealth producers.

Sure it is.

In the SU all projects were make work and unquestionably wealth increased in the SU while it was communist.

It's not, generally, as effective or efficient as market and profit incentivized capitalism. the exception is in a market of panic and fear where the markets are not behaving in a wealth creating fashion.

And the government taking and spending tax dollars from the private sector is not the same as using capital. In fact all the government is doing is lessening the ability of the private sector to produce wealth by confiscating that money via taxes.

Sure it is. The Govt takes capital thru taxes that is sitting idle because people and businesses are afraid to spend/invest it and spends it, creating demand and production.

Tell me how endlessly repaving existing highways produces wealth when all that money taken via taxes to pay for it is taken from people who would have used it to start a new business, or to invest in an existing business, or to buy a home or put an addition on their home, or to buy a new car or motorcycle etc etc.

Prevents breakdowns, broken axels, destroyed rims, allows products and people to move faster and more efficiently.

Add to it the certainty that a good percentage of that tax money will be eaten up by the bureaucracy never to reach its intended target where a full 100% of that money, if used by the private sector, would have been utilized for its intended purpose and tell me again how the government creates wealth via taxes.

That's trut with corporations too. But I wouldn't propose wholesale replacement of private enterprise. Neither is Obama.

And please, do not turn this into a tax, anti tax argument. I am not advocating no taxes but I am merely stating that the government taking tax dollars from the public and spending them does not produce wealth, it merely lessens the ability of the public to produce wealth there by resulting in a transfer of funds to a less efficient mechanism of use.

Wrong. See above. In a recession of fear and panic where banks aren't lending, people and companies aren't spending, government spending is more efficient because the market is not.

 

[mash107]

An idle worker is wealth denied.

Exactly, millions sitting around not working are consuming wealth and not creating it.

A stimulus is designed to get folks more into producing wealth by transferring it from capital to productivity when the market isn't doing it for whatever reason, in this case the credit crisis.

Government make work projects are not wealth producers.

And the government taking and spending tax dollars from the private sector is not the same as using capital. In fact all the government is doing is lessening the ability of the private sector to produce wealth by confiscating that money via taxes.

Tell me how endlessly repaving existing highways produces wealth when all that money taken via taxes to pay for it is taken from people who would have used it to start a new business, or to invest in an existing business, or to buy a home or put an addition on their home, or to buy a new car or motorcycle etc etc.

Add to it the certainty that a good percentage of that tax money will be eaten up by the bureaucracy never to reach its intended target where a full 100% of that money, if used by the private sector, would have been utilized for its intended purpose and tell me again how the government creates wealth via taxes.

And please, do not turn this into a tax, anti tax argument. I am not advocating no taxes but I am merely stating that the government taking tax dollars from the public and spending them does not produce wealth, it merely lessens the ability of the public to produce wealth there by resulting in a transfer of funds to a less efficient mechanism of use.

I agree. But I'd say spending is the problem, not taxes. Taxes take the money out directly, sure. That much can be seen. Spending, beyond tax revenue, takes the money out indirectly, either through inflation or borrowing, and that's unseen. Even if we had no taxes and government spent as they have been doing, we'd see the same dismal economy. This is why Keynesian economics never work... because government spending doesn't increase aggregate demand.. just redistributes it after taking it out of the economy first.

 

[Skull Pilot]

ALL government spending is from taxes one way or the other.

 

[mash107]

ALL government spending is from taxes one way or the other.

Inflation is a tax... good point.

 

[editec]

Poverty is a tax, too.

 

[mash107]

Poverty is a tax, too.

Poverty... inflation.. what's the difference?