Ayn Rand is right. There is no higher state than

[Sallow]

I understand what you are saying, but there is a logical argument, no man is entitled to another mans labor or property. Now I agree that we should do what we can to help each other, but not at the tip of a roman spear.

So, how, exactly do you make up for 2 centuries of slavery?

I dont, I dont own any slaves nor have I ever. And in all fairness, black people where not citizens at the time, does it make it right? Of course not, but it is what it is.

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

 

[Greenbeard]

He would not be electable today by the Democrat party, because in their minds it just doesn't go afar enough. And his tax policy alone goes against everything the Dems are trying to do now.

If he were unelectable in the Democratic party today, it would be because he was too far left, not too conservative. He's far more liberal than most elected Democrats today--this is the guy who proposed and fought for single-payer health insurance for the elderly vs. a party that today couldn't even muster the votes for a small, optional public health insurance program despite poll after poll after poll showing majority public support for it.

Kennedy came from an era in which strong, proud liberals still existed in the Democratic party (this is back when it was still legitimately--not just nostalgically--the party of FDR and Harry Truman). By and large, today they do not. Ted Kennedy was one of the last of the old guard when he died a few years ago. Granted, there are still a handful of Democrats ideologically akin to Kennedy (Sherrod Brown comes to mind) but they're few and far between. The leaders of the party today are rather milquetoast centrists like the current President (and the last Democratic president before him, for that matter).

As for his tax policy, I doubt you'd have an easy time finding a Democrat today who disagrees that a 70% top marginal tax rate is preferable to a 91% top marginal rate.

 

[grunt11b]

So, how, exactly do you make up for 2 centuries of slavery?

I dont, I dont own any slaves nor have I ever. And in all fairness, black people where not citizens at the time, does it make it right? Of course not, but it is what it is.

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

I would never advocate for a revolution, but like Thomas Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be replenished with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time. If the politicians do not represent the people it is our civic duty to remove them and put in place a government that will. We should not be using entitlement programs as payoffs to citizens, it's both morally and ethically wrong, it takes away a persons will to do better for themselves and takes away there self respect.

 

[Neotrotsky]

So, how, exactly do you make up for 2 centuries of slavery?

I dont, I dont own any slaves nor have I ever. And in all fairness, black people where not citizens at the time, does it make it right? Of course not, but it is what it is.

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

Really

at the time of the American Revolution
Americans had a higher standard of living than the British citizen

 

[grunt11b]

He would not be electable today by the Democrat party, because in their minds it just doesn't go afar enough. And his tax policy alone goes against everything the Dems are trying to do now.

If he were unelectable in the Democratic party today, it would be because he was too far left, not too conservative. He's far more liberal than most elected Democrats today--this is the guy who proposed and fought for single-payer health insurance for the elderly vs. a party that today couldn't even muster the votes for a small, optional public health insurance program despite poll after poll after poll showing majority public support for it.

Kennedy came from an era in which strong, proud liberals still existed in the Democratic party (this is back when it was still legitimately--not just nostalgically--the party of FDR and Harry Truman). By and large, today they do not. Ted Kennedy was one of the last of the old guard when he died a few years ago. Granted, there are still a handful of Democrats ideologically akin to Kennedy (Sherrod Brown comes to mind) but they're few and far between. The leaders of the party today are rather milquetoast centrists like the current President (and the last Democratic president before him, for that matter).

As for his tax policy, I doubt you'd have an easy time finding a Democrat today who disagrees that a 70% top marginal tax rate is preferable to a 91% top marginal rate.

Liberals in the 60's are not the same as liberals today. Most liberals we have in politics today are progressives, something kennedy was definitely not.

 

[Sallow]

I dont, I dont own any slaves nor have I ever. And in all fairness, black people where not citizens at the time, does it make it right? Of course not, but it is what it is.

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

I would never advocate for a revolution, but like Thomas Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be replenished with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time. If the politicians do not represent the people it is our civic duty to remove them and put in place a government that will. We should not be using entitlement programs as payoffs to citizens, it's both morally and ethically wrong, it takes away a persons will to do better for themselves and takes away there self respect.

You do know that Jefferson walked that back after he saw the what happened with the French Revolution, right?

"Entitlements" are not "payoffs". Most of them are "insurance" programs that have been paid for..and the rest are safety nets.

The problem for the most part is the funding. We have more and more people..and we are cutting taxes.

That simply makes no sense.

 

[Sallow]

I dont, I dont own any slaves nor have I ever. And in all fairness, black people where not citizens at the time, does it make it right? Of course not, but it is what it is.

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

Really

at the time of the American Revolution
Americans had a higher standard of living than the British citizen

Now that's just hogwash.

 

[editec]

Organisms don't support other organisms in nature.


Wrong.

As but ONE example: without other organisms in your gut? You'd STARVE to death.

See symbiotic relationships

Life and society is way more complex than Rand ever imagined.

 

[grunt11b]

You, me and Irene..are all part of this nation. In any case, I put that up to illustrate that what you may consider "fair" hasn't always been the case.

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

There are quite a few reasons for making sure people are healthy, well fed, sheltered and reasonably happy.

Like every revolution in every nation where there were huge gaps between rich and poor.

Those communist countries we all hate so much didn't become that way in a vaccuum.

I would never advocate for a revolution, but like Thomas Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be replenished with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time. If the politicians do not represent the people it is our civic duty to remove them and put in place a government that will. We should not be using entitlement programs as payoffs to citizens, it's both morally and ethically wrong, it takes away a persons will to do better for themselves and takes away there self respect.

You do know that Jefferson walked that back after he saw the what happened with the French Revolution, right?

"Entitlements" are not "payoffs". Most of them are "insurance" programs that have been paid for..and the rest are safety nets.

The problem for the most part is the funding. We have more and more people..and we are cutting taxes.

That simply makes no sense.

You said this:

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

SO that being said you could also say that in a way the entitlement programs are being used to sooth the savage beast, because if they woke up one day and all of a sudden those programs where not there, they would break out in riots. Alot like what was happening overseas this year in Europe, it became unsustainable and the people flipped out.
I have to go ya'll, time to get ready for work "I always enjoy going to prison everyday". . It was fun sallo, see you on here again soon.

 

[grunt11b]

Organisms don't support other organisms in nature.


Wrong.

As but ONE example: without other organisms in your gut? You'd STARVE to death.

See symbiotic relationships

Life and society is way more complex than Rand ever imagined.

True, but I choose every day whether to feed them or not "Organisms". Unlike the entitlement system.

 

[Bfgrn]

Jesus Christ, I wouldn't think I would ever hear a liberal say those words. What happened to the whole 'Katrina was a orchestrated attempt to murder black people by the Bush administration'? Also, true colorblindness is a conservative principle, but let's not get too side tracked here.

I was just stating, which apparently we are in agreement, that based solely on policy the modern Democrat party would scorn and run out JFK.

When the heck did you ever see me post anything about Bush like that?

I hold that it was grossly incompetent. And never once have I said Bush was evil or unpatriotic. Cheney on the other hand..

In that situation the response would begin at the local level, not the federal level. The counties would star taking care of business, then if they needed help it would move to the state level and so on up to the federal level. That takes time.

An editorial from The Louisiana Weekly, September, 1965, "Our Brother's Keeper"

On September 10, 1965, the day after Hurricane Betsy plowed through southeastern Louisiana, President Lyndon Johnson flew to New Orleans. He went to the people, to shelters where evacuees were gathered, to neighborhoods all over the city. There was no electricity and, so that people could see and hear him at one shelter, he took a flashlight, shined it into his face and said into a megaphone, "My name is Lyndon Baines Johnson. I am your president. I am here to make sure you have the help you need."

And that's exactly what he did. He cut through bureaucratic red tape and, before he'd even left the city that day, he saw to it that the wheels were set in motion for the city's recovery.

Those who remember Betsy will always be grateful to President Johnson for his decisive leadership, his critically needed comfort and his determination to bring timely help to the area, and to immediately start rescuing, recovering and rebuilding.

He saw what needed to be done and, without hesitation, put the entire weight of the federal government behind the effort to bring aid to the people and to supply whatever was necessary to begin the clean-up and rebuilding process. In fact, it was Pres. Johnson who soon afterward initiated plans for a long-needed levee system to protect the city. He stood behind his commitment to the area.

Too late, we would find that some in the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers did not. We now know that the city could have been spared much of the devastation of August, 2005, had the Corps' design and construction of critical floodwalls not been seriously flawed.

Here is your term for the day: NATIONAL DISASTER

And here is how a REAL leader acts:

Hurricane Betsy hits New Orleans

In the first hours, President Lyndon B. Johnson called 20 government agencies: Corps of Engineers, Veterans Administration, Food and Drug Administration, Agricultural Department, Small Business Administration, all the services: Army, Navy, Air Force, the National Command Center, Department of Agriculture, Interior, Maritime, Housing and Home Finance, Bureau of Yards and Docks and Navy, Federal Communications, Federal Aviation, Bureau of Public Roads, Treasury, Commerce, and Interstate Commerce Commission.

5 hours later LBJ, the President of the United States, was in New Orleans running the rescue effort!

LBJ anticipated ALL the problems Bush blames on others!

Before boarding Air Force One LBJ had a phone conversation with Robert Phillips the 1965 version of Michael Brown. LBJ didn't WAIT to see what Phillips would do...

LBJ TOLD Phillips WHAT to do and HOW to do it:

White House Transcript excerpt:
President Lyndon B. Johnson: "we've got to cut out all the red tape. We've got to work around the clock. We've got to ignore hours. We've got to bear in mind that we exist for only one purpose and that's to the greatest good for the greatest number. And the people who've lost their homes, people who have lost their furniture, the people who have lost some of their crops and even their families are not going to be very interested in any individual differences between federal or state or local agencies."

LBJ GOT THINGS DONE! AND; You didn't say NO to LBJ!

Phillips wasn't hoping for "Bobby, you're doing a heck of a job." Phillips was PRAYING HIS nuts wouldn't end up flying from the White House flagpole!!!

EXCUSES are for people that CAN'T get things done. WE CAN'T tolerate that in a President.

Two Texans, ONE President...

 

[Sallow]

I would never advocate for a revolution, but like Thomas Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be replenished with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time. If the politicians do not represent the people it is our civic duty to remove them and put in place a government that will. We should not be using entitlement programs as payoffs to citizens, it's both morally and ethically wrong, it takes away a persons will to do better for themselves and takes away there self respect.

You do know that Jefferson walked that back after he saw the what happened with the French Revolution, right?

"Entitlements" are not "payoffs". Most of them are "insurance" programs that have been paid for..and the rest are safety nets.

The problem for the most part is the funding. We have more and more people..and we are cutting taxes.

That simply makes no sense.

You said this:

Contrary to popular belief, if a situation becomes dire enough for a person, and their alternatives are few..they tend to act out. And not always in positive ways.

SO that being said you could also say that in a way the entitlement programs are being used to sooth the savage beast, because if they woke up one day and all of a sudden those programs where not there, they would break out in riots. Alot like what was happening overseas this year in Europe, it became unsustainable and the people flipped out.
I have to go ya'll, time to get ready for work "I always enjoy going to prison everyday". . It was fun sallo, see you on here again soon.

It's not as simple as that..

We can pick it up later.

Have a nice day.

 

[lehr]

Im a long time member of ayn rand - they believe in abortion - i do not - but we r in danger of falling to communism - they see the danger

few others do !

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

‘Fact’: the right’s ‘four letter word.’

Here are other facts the right isn’t going to like:

Fact: it’s the 21st Century, not the 18th.

Fact: we function in the context of a global economy and a global marketplace.

Fact: the ‘natural regulators’ of the free market system are an ineffective anachronism.

Fact: the US Constitution is a social contract designed to address the higher cause of protecting individual rights and ‘to form a more perfect Union.’

 

[Bfgrn]

He would not be electable today by the Democrat party, because in their minds it just doesn't go afar enough. And his tax policy alone goes against everything the Dems are trying to do now.

If he were unelectable in the Democratic party today, it would be because he was too far left, not too conservative. He's far more liberal than most elected Democrats today--this is the guy who proposed and fought for single-payer health insurance for the elderly vs. a party that today couldn't even muster the votes for a small, optional public health insurance program despite poll after poll after poll showing majority public support for it.

Kennedy came from an era in which strong, proud liberals still existed in the Democratic party (this is back when it was still legitimately--not just nostalgically--the party of FDR and Harry Truman). By and large, today they do not. Ted Kennedy was one of the last of the old guard when he died a few years ago. Granted, there are still a handful of Democrats ideologically akin to Kennedy (Sherrod Brown comes to mind) but they're few and far between. The leaders of the party today are rather milquetoast centrists like the current President (and the last Democratic president before him, for that matter).

As for his tax policy, I doubt you'd have an easy time finding a Democrat today who disagrees that a 70% top marginal tax rate is preferable to a 91% top marginal rate.

Liberals in the 60's are not the same as liberals today. Most liberals we have in politics today are progressives, something kennedy was definitely not.

JFK : Most Progressive President

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9jUuYeseVw]JFK : Most Progressive President - YouTube[/ame]

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

 

[BoycottTheday]

Fact: the ‘natural regulators’ of the free market system are an ineffective anachronism.

F

If that was true nobody would be able to score weed cocaine etc in the States.

Capitalism works just fine thank you.


So much for your opinion of your facts.

 

[Greenbeard]

JFK : Most Progressive President

JFK : Most Progressive President - YouTube

Well-played. This "Kennedy was really a conservative Republican" nonsense crops up from time to time and it's always baffling.

 

[code1211]

Rand was a reactionary hack.

The dogma of ‘Objectivism’ is predicated on the bizarre perception of a society without structure, a utopian fantasy that naively fails to take into consideration the need of social contracts, legal doctrine, and the inevitable manifestation of institutions.

Modernity rendered ‘Objectivism’ irrelevant before its inception.

The opposite poles of the political discussion are anarchy and police state or some such demonstration of free agents and total control.

Rand stakes out a position of desiring less governmental control. In her books, she exhorts the value of contracts when Roarke invokes the contract to support the destruction of the buildings that break the rules defined within it.

She exhorts the power of the individual to shape society in Atlas Shrugged when the movers and the shakers form a utopia and society falters in their absence.

She attacks the inefficiency and corruption of any political sytem, be it industry or government, that supresses the individual and denies the strength and integrity of individual thought.

I don't understand why Liberals say that they like these ideas, but hate Rand's ideas. Could it be that they do not understand what they are thinking?

everything ayn rand wrote was to justify her own selfishness, including the affair she carried on in the face of her husband.

she believed in nothing but the self. THAT is why anyone with a brain who actually understands the workings of society and the social contract, would reject her idiocy out of hand. i'd also point out that at the end she was very happy to take her government checks.

just sayin

Right. And Jefferson owned slaves and Jesus had a mistress.

I thought we were talking about the ideas she professed not your opinion of her life style.

 

[bripat9643]

It's impossible to serve others effectively if one does not first meet his own needs.

In other words, charity begins at home.

So the Kochroaches needs have not yet been met and they need a few more billions of dollars before they might be expected to help others?

If they don't want to help others, that's their business. In a free country, you do what you like, not what others tell you to do.

Furthermore, the Kochs do help everyone by donating money to groups that are trying to overthrow our welfare kleptocracy.

 

[bripat9643]

Medicare is NOT socialism. Medicare is a social insurance program. People PAY into it weekly their whole working lives, it is EARNED!

Wrong. Medicare is welfare. It in no way resembles an insurance plan. I could list all the differences between Medicare and insurance, but intelligent people already know them and people like you are immune to the facts.

The fact that you are taxed doesn't prove that you have "earned" the benefits. Many people receive benefits without paying a dime.