CDZ avoiding climate catastrophe : paying attention to our methane output should be of bigger concern to us, i and quite a few others think

[App'z]

Maybe the answer lies in the Messages we listen 2 ! The Earth has been drying up going desert for maybe a million years.

 

[Delldude]

So what do you think can be done to prohibit the release of methane resulting from global warming.

First prove global warming is causing methane to be released.

 

[Delldude]

Methane pretty much bubbles out of everywhere. Lakes, puddles, oceans, frozen ground, everywhere. Yep its more dangerous than CO2. Neither are good maybe for the most part except Beer and Pepsi ! It will take some fairly sophisticated capture plants to make up for the extra the Earth can't dissolve. Sooner than Later large Nuke plants are needed to generate Electricity and recapture CO2 and Methane are my thoughts. Actually Desalting ocean water and irrigation for increased forests and green would be a great plan. There are millions of acres of Desert, semi desert and loads of opportunities to GREEN the planet in a way that makes sense. Obviously Battery powered e-cars are just a touch along with short range e-planes. Yep its gonna take a global organization to do it or else. It would also help with the increased water melt from Ice as it would go back into the natural resources area of reclaim thru plant life and animal life especially microbes. If Man could remove the threat of war and intimidation and work toward a Green Earth and Ocean much of our future childs fears could be laid to rest and the Mother Earth would feel so good ! Look at the waste since the early 1900's The monies spent on war and warfare materials. No political solvation here. Salvation will mostly be the Need to exist. Unfortunately thas not a requirement of hatred !

High co2 levels would result in plant growth increasing. There is your 'recapture' technology.

 

[App'z]

Fertilizers pretty much screw up that plan ! With out a plan to have Agriculture grown with huge irrigation initializations, Droughts, loss of acerage on huge scales, Fires & Buggs will mostly kill the timbers, grasses and crops, undue all you think can work and simply things continue to gradually get worser and worser ! Young trees + old trees are dying on a huge scale now because of buggs. 100,000's of acres are burning every year. There is no end in sight for drying and dying and burning.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Lots getting wetter too, bub. Let's not get all depressed and defeatist about it. We broke it. We can and must fix it.. or die trying.

 

[App'z]

Like I said above I believe Desalting Ocean Water on a Massive scale, pumping it to lakes and then pumping it to Agriculture areas that are dry now can help in a massive scale. It just takes those 1000's of Desalting plants and storage/delivery systems. The Lakes will also increase rainfall as the winds change. We got the technology now to easily do it. Floodings in Rainy months is a yearly event, those excess waters need to be relocated for storage in dry area months. Its simple but not acceptable by todays political stance.

 

[App'z]

Monterey California had the proposal put to them by the Water Company. We can easily put in a Desalting plant on your Península, they refused, they do not want it on the coast & they do not want people moving in there. So they whine about no water and want to pump it from Arizona which does not have a lot of water anyway except in below ground cisterns. Arizona said no thank you to that idea.

 

[flacaltenn]

So what do you think can be done to prohibit the release of methane resulting from global warming.

Like I and others said -- methane has bubbling up naturally for centuries. It's those vids of dudes setting ponds (or their tap water) on fire, Nature has a LOT of toxic waste dumps that people live on.

But this idea that the PERMAFROST is melting from a 0.6DegC rise in GLOBAL mean temperature in your lifetime -- is not a hair on fire drill.

The climatological "recent" history of the Earth is a series of 4 IN A ROW -- glacial to warming periods. And LITERALLY the CO2 cycle was FROZEN as well because nature SOURCES most of the annual CO2. (also sinks most of it). And with a MILE DEEP GLACIERS covering the northern latitudes -- All that ice MELTED to EXPOSE the remaining permafrost and sub-ocean deposits of methane FOUR TIMES and the CLIMATE did NOT "run-away" or "accelerate" the warming,

What's LEFT of the permafrost covered methane is more likely to be released (in Siberia) and other places by SEISMIC activity than a couple degree rise in surface temp, And what's LEFT is a TINY FRACTION of the CO2/Meth released as the Earth thawed in between those FOUR glacial periods.

We're DUE for ANOTHER ICE AGE.. That's the expectation from past Earth climate history. Maybe this mild warming is POSTPONING that date by 10,000 years or so.

 

[App'z]

So in the Beginning for my plan to work a Desalting plant needs to be built near the coast along the Pacific about every 40 miles. Maybe 10 acres of ground and many thousands of miles of pipelines and pumping stations most likely every county in California Dry lands, across Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Utah, parts of Wyoming most likely in the USA Were talking very large capabilities of movement of water.

 

[App'z]

As far as Ice ages go they occur when the Earth is at its area of Orbit, it is Elliptical and looses a lot of Sunlight. That is a Common occurrence and can be observed some 50,000 or so years in the future. As the Earth begins to return from that far elipse every year the earth warms back up and the Ice age ends. Of course the higher the Content of O2 over CO2 and Methane the colder it gets in those winter months. If O2 Percent was near 30% now we would be much much colder in Jan/Feb months in the North and very cold in the South in June / July / August !

 

[App'z]

If you draw up a Water World Earth you see huge lakes, many large Canals and pumping stations. The Map of the Pipe lines would look like the power lines maps. The power requirement would by absolutely huge. All Nuke, solar, wind could be taxed. Sure Fusion is a possibility if ? Still it can be done ! All you got to do is look at lakes in Russia etc that have dried up. Even Large lakes in the USA are hugely dry to get what is happening.

 

[flacaltenn]

So in the Beginning for my plan to work a Desalting plant needs to be built near the coast along the Pacific about every 40 miles. Maybe 10 acres of ground and many thousands of miles of pipelines and pumping stations most likely every county in California Dry lands, across Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Utah, parts of Wyoming most likely in the USA Were talking very large capabilities of movement of water.

Stupid people fight over water. Smart people try to create new supplies.

One of the things about desalinization plants is that they are PERFECT for OFF-GRID wind and solar. Because it doesn't matter if the wind dont blow or the sun dont shine some days. ON AVERAGE the energy they produce to run an energy intensive desalinization plant -- ALL that energy product would stored as a water product,


California worries that they might ENCOURAGE growth at a time when they are BLEEDING population. I would bet they also rejected the idea because it IS VERY energy intensive and they just can't admit they dont have the POWER to build those plants on their "browning out" grid with TOO much reliance on JUST wind/solar.

Take the concept BACK to the jerks who borked this great idea and tell them to "sell the concept" on the basis of using OFF GRID wind/solar. And stop whining.

 

[App'z]

So the exact answer is pencil pusher politicians want to get everyone on a Battery plan when the answer is more H2O to grow stuff, grow population, grow economy and most of all live in a water world. If ya got 300% more green plants you got a good environment but ya go the opposite way of drying it out with E power. So Take an aspirin and call me tomorrow is a great fix ! Nothing those pencil pushers will do can make a bid of difference in the scheme of it all. Is heating and drying out. been doing it for a very long time. Mankind started in Africa because it was very lush with lowland waters. they are all gone now and Africa is a mess.

 

[flacaltenn]

As far as Ice ages go they occur when the Earth is at its area of Orbit, it is Elliptical and looses a lot of Sunlight. That is a Common occurrence and can be observed some 50,000 or so years in the future. As the Earth begins to return from that far elipse every year the earth warms back up and the Ice age ends. Of course the higher the Content of O2 over CO2 and Methane the colder it gets in those winter months. If O2 Percent was near 30% now we would be much much colder in Jan/Feb months in the North and very cold in the South in June / July / August !

Not so much O2 "shielding" -- its the MILE DEEP ICE itself that locks up the yearly CO2 exchange between natural surface sources and sinks. (Methane as well). NONE of any hydrocarbons volatize into the atmos.

And in the brief inter-glacial warming periods -- it's not just TRAPPED and still frozen CO2/Methane. It's the DECAY of all the stuff that DIED and got trapped under the ice for 50,000 years of so. That IMPULSE of GHouse gases at the warming phase of an ice age NEVER triggered "accelerated warming" or "run-away warning" or found a "Trigger point". Which are the tenets of BELIEF about Catastrophic GW.

Look at the recent climatic history in graph below. Those WARM periods are PUNY compared to the glacial periods. And WE are stretching our luck with facing the next icy plunge. Look at HOW brief they actually are..

Leads me to chuckle about how the periodic ice ages are nature's way of PRESERVING the balance in the GHouse and "taking out some of nature's trash CO2 and methane build up..

 

[App'z]

Worrying about the next ice age 50,000 + years from now means nothing, and the Ice weight simply quickens the movement of the Continents due to tremendous weights
Which extend to maybe the Great lakes and some up into Africa and S. America to a heights of solid ice to a mile in areas. Man seems to travel over and beside ice well. Of course Population explosion wasn't much of a problem back then. Sunglasses were hard to find and gathering around the fire was much preferred to Exploring new strategies. Basically increasing O2 and decreasing CO2 via Green growth, the earth tends to deal with Methane thru natural ways will chill the Earth. The Ice Age is a PITA. More Water brings more growth of Green nuff Said !

 

[flacaltenn]

So the exact answer is pencil pusher politicians want to get everyone on a Battery plan when the answer is more H2O to grow stuff, grow population, grow economy and most of all live in a water world. If ya got 300% more green plants you got a good environment but ya go the opposite way of drying it out with E power. So Take an aspirin and call me tomorrow is a great fix ! Nothing those pencil pushers will do can make a bid of difference in the scheme of it all. Is heating and drying out. been doing it for a very long time. Mankind started in Africa because it was very lush with lowland waters. they are all gone now and Africa is a mess.

Those "pencil pushers" ARE driving us to a "battery centric" energy plan. One that will eventually KILL the planet and a lot of people.

Not only swapping the WHOLE transportation energy sector to electric vehicles before they figure out HOW to increase generation by the neccessary 30 to 40% -- BUT THEN -- because their saintly ideas about wind/solar all need UNIMAGINABLE "grid scale battery" storage to keep the lights on and people alive.

That 2nd part is SO HUMONGEOUS -- nobody will do the actual numbers on the mining, toxic waste disposal, costs of storing MORE than 4 hours of grid power.

One number I ran into was that Elon Musk's proprietary battery plant for Tesla would take 3000 YEARS to produce enough batteries to store ONE HOUR of US grid generation.

Bunch of liberal art punks WISHING THEMSELVES an energy system designed on batteries that PRODUCE NO ENERGY...

 

[flacaltenn]

Worrying about the next ice age 50,000 + years from now means nothing, and the Ice weight simply quickens the movement of the Continents due to tremendous weights

It's not 50,000 years from now. Look at the time scale in the graph I gave you.
Take that 2nd warm period starting 350,000 years ago. It's BARELY 20,000 years wide!!!!!

Then look at the "warming period" we're living in today.. We are ALREADY 12 to 15 thousand years INTO it. Meaning if history repeats the 5th time -- we're 5,000 to 8,000 years from going extinct as an advanced culture..

MAYBE -- its not a bad deal to have a couple degree induced warming NOW.

 

[App'z]

If you see the Methane/CO2 levels the warm up thing is getting weird Leveling out much lower, not a quick spike but a continued constant thing. Again the Next Ice age is immaterial to our Erectus future. It not creating a hard on here. Its a general loss of most all I love. However Cold that age may be it won't make a dang difference in the scheme of it all. People will still walk on it and sail / travel along side its edges. Of about the curse, yep, the Power Utopia of today and dreams of interstellar wealth will also die ! We are screwed !

 

[ClaireH]

The largest source by far of unburned methane is from undersea deposits of frozen methane that simply bubbles up through the sea water as it sublimates into the atmosphere with no possible way to stop it. The Article is bullshit and paid for by green scammers.

I’ve been hoping somebody would break bring that up, and you were a poster on my watch list. Your posts are well-received.

Bubbles of methane rising from seafloor in Puget Sound

www.nsf.gov

Another study out with evidence that ice glaciers contain much less ice than they originally were thought to contain, as to the tune that if it all suddenly melts an instant reduction of 3 inches of rise has been revealed. This “revelation” begs the question of what other “estimated specifics” are in question. The following study proposes a 20% reduction in what’s been argued.

New Atlas Says Most Glaciers Hold Less Ice Than Thought | Dartmouth

home.dartmouth.edu

The question is, what will the global experts on climate change be saying now about this significant water level reduction? Will they be publicly making a reassessment or double down on their published false assessments? I would hate to venture a guess but have a good idea.

 

[ClaireH]

Those "pencil pushers" ARE driving us to a "battery centric" energy plan. One that will eventually KILL the planet and a lot of people.

Not only swapping the WHOLE transportation energy sector to electric vehicles before they figure out HOW to increase generation by the neccessary 30 to 40% -- BUT THEN -- because their saintly ideas about wind/solar all need UNIMAGINABLE "grid scale battery" storage to keep the lights on and people alive.

That 2nd part is SO HUMONGEOUS -- nobody will do the actual numbers on the mining, toxic waste disposal, costs of storing MORE than 4 hours of grid power.

One number I ran into was that Elon Musk's proprietary battery plant for Tesla would take 3000 YEARS to produce enough batteries to store ONE HOUR of US grid generation.

Bunch of liberal art punks WISHING THEMSELVES an energy system designed on batteries that PRODUCE NO ENERGY...

Seems they’re venturing now into the race of how much solar power is safe, oh great not that again. Germany says “it’s out” deciding to close 3 nuclear plants.

Safety concerns, not sure exactly where it falls here. It’s more about how much can we do, even if we shouldn’t.

They’ve been working for 2 decades now on these nuclear plants that are outrageously expensive to build and take a long amount of time to do so. Old planning methods not improved yet? Color me a person who expects that trillions and trillions of dollars should lead to progress within 20 years.

Nuclear-fusion reactor smashes energy record

The experimental Joint European Torus has doubled the record for the amount of energy made from fusing atoms — the process that powers the Sun.

www.nature.com

I’m afraid I don’t really expect “top paid experts” to be concerned about doing the right thing, the safe thing, the sensible thing nowadays in these short-term green ventures. By the time that trillions of more dollars are wasted for a hopeful gain of nuclear energy fusion, newer technology will be out about doing it better (safer). The scam is the urgent need to rush all plans, so the people buy into the waste of taxpayer money. It’s another public scam similar to the intentionally extended pandemic.