Australia's gun laws see suicide rates drop

[Saigon]

The WaPo reports that almost 20 years on from Australia's law change and gun buy-back scheme, suicide rates have fallen significantly.

The chart maps Australia by state, showing the numbers of guns bought back, and the correlating impacton suicide rates:

What is significant is the decline the laws caused in the firearm suicide rate, which Leigh and Neill estimate at a 74 percent reduction for a buyback of that size. This is even higher than the overall decline in the suicide rate, because the gun buybacks’ speed varied from state to state. In states with quick buybacks, the fall in the suicide rate far exceeded the fall in states with slower buybacks:

Howard cites a study (pdf) by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law’s effectiveness.

Did gun control work in Australia?

 

[Noomi]

The gun nuts here would provide another source to say that your source is wrong, even though I know its right.

 

[Saigon]

The gun nuts here would provide another source to say that your source is wrong, even though I know its right.

I read a few articles about this before posting, and certainly it seems that although murder rates have fallen, the impact of the gun laws on murders are bitterly disputed.

But the impact on suicide rates seems to a proven statistical fact.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There is no doubt that the data in the study are accurate.

But one cannot compare the United States with Australia, as the United States is a considerably more violent society, where violence is sanctioned as a legitimate form of conflict resolution.

As with most complex, difficult issues, there is no quick, simple solution – to decrease gun violence, including suicide, there must first be change in the fundamental nature of American society, where violence is not sanctioned as a legitimate form of conflict resolution, regardless what firearms regulations are in place.

This is a violence issue, a cultural issue, an education issue, a social issue, not an availability of guns issue.

 

[Saigon]

C Clayton -

In the case of murder, I think you are right, but in the case of suicide, I disagree.

Experts tell us that suicide involving a gun causes deathon 92% of occassions - close to double the "success" rate of pills. Hence, the availaility of guns is very much the issue here.

It is statistically proven that households which own a gun are more likely to experience a suicide.

 

[Politico]

So when are you gonna stop talking and move?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

C Clayton -

In the case of murder, I think you are right, but in the case of suicide, I disagree.

Experts tell us that suicide involving a gun causes deathon 92% of occassions - close to double the "success" rate of pills. Hence, the availaility of guns is very much the issue here.

It is statistically proven that households which own a gun are more likely to experience a suicide.

And suicide is a form of violence, made legitimate in American society, resolving one’s internal conflict of mental illness.

Again, as with the violent nature of American society, the issue of mental illness and suicide is complex and not subject to simple solutions, as it is unrelated to the availability of guns.

Moreover, the American judicial system requires the state to meet the burden of demonstrating that the restriction or preemption of a civil liberty be predicated on fact and evidence, not speculation or conjecture. That one might commit a violent act with a firearm, against others or oneself, does not meet that burden.

 

[tjvh]

Let me get this straight... Removing guns makes people happier, and less likely to kill themselves. This thread is absurd.

 

[Colin]

Let me get this straight... Removing guns makes people happier, and less likely to kill themselves. This thread is absurd.

Makes people happier? Who is saying that? No one! The fact is that a suicide attempt with a firearm rarely affords a second chance whereas attempts involving drugs or cutting, which account for more than 90% of all suicidal acts, prove fatal far less often. Hence, if someone doesn't have immediate access to a firearm, they are less likely to die from suicide.

 

[Saigon]

Let me get this straight... Removing guns makes people happier, and less likely to kill themselves. This thread is absurd.

Um....no....perhaps try reading the thread. At the moment you have no idea what we are discussing.

 

[USNavyVet]

So since 1.3% of the population commits suicide we should ban guns and take away a Constitutional right for 100% of the population?

 

[Saigon]

So since 1.3% of the population commits suicide we should ban guns and take away a Constitutional right for 100% of the population?

Who are you talking to?

Who suggested that?

No one - that's who.

Recognising that the availability of gunsi ncreases the risk of suicide is step one.

Recognising that Australia has lowered the numbers of suicide victims by changing their laws is step two.

Considering what solution might work best for the US is a few steps on from that.

 

[USNavyVet]

So since 1.3% of the population commits suicide we should ban guns and take away a Constitutional right for 100% of the population?

Who are you talking to?

Who suggested that?

No one - that's who.

Recognising that the availability of gunsi ncreases the risk of suicide is step one.

Recognising that Australia has lowered the numbers of suicide victims by changing their laws is step two.

Considering what solution might work best for the US is a few steps on from that.

Like I said, taking away guns to protect 1.3% of the population at the expense of 100% of the population is ludicrous. But nice try.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Let me get this straight... Removing guns makes people happier, and less likely to kill themselves. This thread is absurd.

Makes people happier? Who is saying that? No one! The fact is that a suicide attempt with a firearm rarely affords a second chance whereas attempts involving drugs or cutting, which account for more than 90% of all suicidal acts, prove fatal far less often. Hence, if someone doesn't have immediate access to a firearm, they are less likely to die from suicide.

why do people always assume

that those who committed suicide

had an immediate reaction to do so

 

[Saigon]

Jon -

There is no assumption that those who committed suicide using a weapon had "an immediate reaction". That is not the issue here.

USNavy -

Feel free to rejoin the debate anytime you wish to discuss the issue at hand.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jon -

There is no assumption that those who committed suicide using a weapon had "an immediate reaction". That is not the issue here.

USNavy -

Feel free to rejoin the debate anytime you wish to discuss the issue at hand.

bs

Quote: Originally Posted by Colin
Quote: Originally Posted by tjvh
Let me get this straight... Removing guns makes people happier, and less likely to kill themselves. This thread is absurd.
Makes people happier? Who is saying that? No one! The fact is that a suicide attempt with a firearm rarely affords a second chance whereas attempts involving drugs or cutting, which account for more than 90% of all suicidal acts, prove fatal far less often. Hence, if someone doesn't have immediate access to a firearm, they are less likely to die from suicide.

 

[USNavyVet]

Saigon, there is no issue at hand. Dance around the truth all you want, I see where you are going with this. The number of suicides by guns do not justify disarming the population. So the answer to your question is no, "gun control" did not work.

 

[dilloduck]

America is simply not Australia. Critics love trying to get us to believe that because something had some effect in another country that is will have the exact same effect here. There is no evidence to substantiate that claim. Apples will never be oranges.

 

[Saigon]

Saigon, there is no issue at hand. Dance around the truth all you want, I see where you are going with this. The number of suicides by guns do not justify disarming the population. So the answer to your question is no, "gun control" did not work.

No, you don't see where I am going with this, because I am not suggesting that the US implement the same laws that Australia has implemented.

I would be happy to see the US include a simple mental health check within background checks (as being done here in the EU) and leave it at that. Preventing anyone who is being medicated or treated for depression from buying a weapon would be a very good move for the US.

 

[USNavyVet]

Saigon, there is no issue at hand. Dance around the truth all you want, I see where you are going with this. The number of suicides by guns do not justify disarming the population. So the answer to your question is no, "gun control" did not work.

No, you don't see where I am going with this, because I am not suggesting that the US implement the same laws that Australia has implemented.

I would be happy to see the US include a simple mental health check within background checks (as being done here in the EU) and leave it at that. Preventing anyone who is being medicated or treated for depression from buying a weapon would be a very good move for the US.

Then maybe that should have been your opening post instead of dancing around like you did. I'm still not wrong and I still see where your post is leading.