"atlas shrugged" will change the face of american politics

[washamericom]

You are ignoring the constitutional and factual reality that "(2) a Republic is governed by republican representation, the election of representatives by the people. "

Americans will not permit militia soviets, bigreb, in the U.S., because that is what you are implying.

Section 4.


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

 

[MaggieMae]

There is a nearly infinite ocean of gray in a constant state of changing flux which is a major stablizer in the world.

what ? i mean... huh ?

Odd that you didn't get that. I was going to highlight it myself as being the only "absolute" left. Like it or not, just about everything we do now is affected by global pressures, not just reaction/proaction to what happens in the tiny hamlets where we live, unless you choose to live in a tent on a mountaintop that is living solely off the land. Connecting dots now involves a huge global matrix.

 

[MaggieMae]

what ? i mean... huh ?

I mean the world is not a simple place of this good, that bad, him left, her right. We do not live in a world where all people's attitudes, beliefs, actions, etc. tightly revolve around the the poles. We live in a world where Republicans support abortion rights and Democrats support tougher border security. We live in a society that dislikes when people revolve around those poles; we call such people extremists and with the exception of those extremists themselves we universally reject extremism.

Well that too. Forgive me for getting too Randian with my own explanation!

 

[MaggieMae]

"you and your fellow right wing conservatives believe in a dog eat dog mentality and work diligently to assure that a smalll portion of the populace reap GREAT REWARDS while MILLIONS living in poverty"

What I believe, is that the above, like it or not, is human nature, and that ultimately, flying in the face of it with a political ideology is a futile enterprise. You can force people to behave otherwise, or at least pretend to; you cannot, however, make them like it. This is why communism failed (it cannot exist, without a tyranny to support it), and why socialism and liberalism, as advocated today, cannot long prevail in a democracy. The real world is dog eat dog, and most people, instinctively knowing that, live and act accordingly, regardless of what they say. Liberals know this as well as anyone (why else would they be so determined to silence or even eliminate their political opposition) and are just as ruthless in pursuit of power as anyone else, all their protestations of "unselfishness" to the contrary.

I truly feel sorry for people who think and act as though we should accept a dog-eat-dog mentality. I also wonder every day of my life whatever happened to the conscience of many Americans. I always thought we all were born with empathy. But apparently that's another link in the chain of evolution that got dropped somewhere along the way, and I for one am damned glad I missed that break in the chain.

 

[Big Fitz]

I think this sums up why conservatives like "Atlas Shrugged.

Directive 10-289,

"Point One served two purposes: to establish the Unification Board, and to require that all persons presently employed, stay employed in their present capacities. The age of twenty-one was selected because that was the voting age at the time. (The voting age remained at twenty-one until the first term of the Richard Nixon administration, during which time Amendment XXVI formally set the voting age at eighteen.)

Point Two was a direct response to the phenomenon of people quitting and vanishing. This was the real reason for the economic decline, as the bureaucrats half suspected, half feared. Under this point, anyone who quit and vanished faced arrest, imprisonment, and expropriation of his assets.

Point Three provided for the surrender of all intellectual property of any kind to the government. This point actually directed that holders of patents and copyrights voluntary surrender their rights, clearly an oxymoron.

Point Four simply provided that no new inventions were to be introduced for the duration. Wesley Mouch and his associates regarded new inventions as destructive of people's livelihoods.

Point Five attempted to freeze all industrial or commercial output at present levels. For the purpose of determining those levels, the Directive declared a very special fiscal year to be the year ending on the date of the Directive, which was May 1.

Point Six attempted to freeze consumer spending at the levels seen in the fiscal year ending on the date of the Directive, as Point Five had done for business output.

Point Seven was an indefinite wage and price freeze.

Point Eight, the "elastic point," vested in the Unification Board the power to decide, finally and not subject to appeal, any question not covered in Points One through Seven.

Distilled further:

1. Recreate the caste or at least feudal/vassalage system of society.

2. Criminalize non participation in slavery and punish them with hard labor if possible.

3. Socialize all property and force the owners to divulge all intellectual secrets.

4. End creativity.

5 & 6. Plan the economic output and needs of the world and criminalize anyone who disrupts the plan on paper.

7. End all currency and methods of exchange that use 'value'. Need will be determined and assigned by government.

8. Recreate total monarchs with the power of life and death in all things.

How much similarity do you see with the goals of liberalism and this distillation? If not a vast majority, you need to open your eyes.

 

[MaggieMae]

I can't wait until this movie comes out, France would not allow it to be written in the French language, they certainly felt threatened by it, but they should as it shows the evils of socialism. I think Obama needs to read it.

I hope that all of you conservatives and independents take your voting age children to see this movie. It will change them from mush heads that believe anything they hear and see and turn them into critical thinkers of government policy and the fallacies that are being promoted today by a very liberal bunch of mush heads who happen to be in the executive office.

I hear it was a businessman that invested 10 million dollars to make this movie. Please pass this information on to all of your contacts and urge them to see it. It makes you think and think critically.

Obama probably read it many years ago. Ironically, depending on the age of the children, they may come away from the movie scratching their heads and asking mommy whether or not daddy plans to quit his job just so he can make a point, or if daddy does quit his job, how will I eat? Will I still be able to get a new I-Pod?

 

[washamericom]

what ? i mean... huh ?

I mean the world is not a simple place of this good, that bad, him left, her right. We do not live in a world where all people's attitudes, beliefs, actions, etc. tightly revolve around the the poles. We live in a world where Republicans support abortion rights and Democrats support tougher border security. We live in a society that dislikes when people revolve around those poles; we call such people extremists and with the exception of those extremists themselves we universally reject extremism.

Well that too. Forgive me for getting too Randian with my own explanation!

that's funny, i can aleways count on you for a good discussion.

what if i said we live in a world where democrats deny right to life.
but i think in the case of the movie, it's more about business than abortion.

 

[washamericom]

I can't wait until this movie comes out, France would not allow it to be written in the French language, they certainly felt threatened by it, but they should as it shows the evils of socialism. I think Obama needs to read it.

I hope that all of you conservatives and independents take your voting age children to see this movie. It will change them from mush heads that believe anything they hear and see and turn them into critical thinkers of government policy and the fallacies that are being promoted today by a very liberal bunch of mush heads who happen to be in the executive office.

I hear it was a businessman that invested 10 million dollars to make this movie. Please pass this information on to all of your contacts and urge them to see it. It makes you think and think critically.

Obama probably read it many years ago. Ironically, depending on the age of the children, they may come away from the movie scratching their heads and asking mommy whether or not daddy plans to quit his job just so he can make a point, or if daddy does quit his job, how will I eat? Will I still be able to get a new I-Pod?

or if daddy quits his job to be president, even after saying he wouldn't.... just to make his point.
most of the arguing i haer doesn't deliniate between selfish and selfless, it's all in the book.

 

[MaggieMae]

"you and your fellow right wing conservatives believe in a dog eat dog mentality and work diligently to assure that a smalll portion of the populace reap GREAT REWARDS while MILLIONS living in poverty"

What I believe, is that the above, like it or not, is human nature, and that ultimately, flying in the face of it with a political ideology is a futile enterprise. You can force people to behave otherwise, or at least pretend to; you cannot, however, make them like it. This is why communism failed (it cannot exist, without a tyranny to support it), and why socialism and liberalism, as advocated today, cannot long prevail in a democracy. The real world is dog eat dog, and most people, instinctively knowing that, live and act accordingly, regardless of what they say. Liberals know this as well as anyone (why else would they be so determined to silence or even eliminate their political opposition) and are just as ruthless in pursuit of power as anyone else, all their protestations of "unselfishness" to the contrary.

Captilism has brought more people up and out of poverty than any government program ever did. That's a proven fact, but then again Liberals ignore the facts. Clinton's end of welfare as we know it, propelled people out of the projects and into the middle class, you ask why? Because you either sink or you swim.

Capitalism shouldn't ever equal dog-eat-dog. There was a time when great capitalists also had a strong sense of moral obligation to their workers, like Henry Ford.

 

[washamericom]

Ayn Rand is perhaps one of the worst authors I've ever wasted my time on. I got through 3/4ths of the Fountainhead before I tossed the book where it belonged..the trash.

It's comforting to know that before she died..she, like many Americans, had to rely on SSI because she went broke due to Medical expenses.

The irony was thick with this one.

So did my ex-husband who was uber conservative. Even before he got sick, however, that didn't stop him from gaming the system whenever he could, i.e., applying for an additional Social Security card so he could work under the table and only declare the meager income he did have to report, then write-off made up expenses. Yeah, he was a real piece of work, but Nixon and Reagan were his HEROES!! When he did get sick, he not only got food stamps, MediCal coverage and utilities assistance, but his rent was subsidized. I suspect if my ex-husband were still alive, he'd be one of those Californians screaming his head off over how much in debt the California government is because of those goddamned slackers living off welfare.

you let this guy get away? i mean is he still living ?
and all the hatered towards corporations, do the people who have a lower job on the totem pole resent management ?

 

[Big Fitz]

I can't wait until this movie comes out, France would not allow it to be written in the French language, they certainly felt threatened by it, but they should as it shows the evils of socialism. I think Obama needs to read it.

I hope that all of you conservatives and independents take your voting age children to see this movie. It will change them from mush heads that believe anything they hear and see and turn them into critical thinkers of government policy and the fallacies that are being promoted today by a very liberal bunch of mush heads who happen to be in the executive office.

I hear it was a businessman that invested 10 million dollars to make this movie. Please pass this information on to all of your contacts and urge them to see it. It makes you think and think critically.

Obama probably read it many years ago. Ironically, depending on the age of the children, they may come away from the movie scratching their heads and asking mommy whether or not daddy plans to quit his job just so he can make a point, or if daddy does quit his job, how will I eat? Will I still be able to get a new I-Pod?

And you base this assumption on what evidence? Most college students or professors EVER read Ayn Rand. She's darn near persona non grata in the colleges these days.

I had to choose to read it on my own as an adult and that was only after someone tipped me off that it was an interesting read. The Fountainhead took me 4 tries before I finally got into it, and then I LOVED it, regardless of it's stilted nature. Atlas Shrugged I consumed in 4 days as hard as it was to read the whole John Galt Speaks section... MAN that was dry.

 

[MaggieMae]

Thanks for illustrating your logical fallacy. Just because one believs one's own self interest should be served first, is not the same thing as attempting to make sure everyone else stays poor.

Look around you... that is EXACTLY what is happening right now.

No, the wealthy making money is NOT what is causing the middle class and poor to stay poor and middle class. Though it is only human nature to blame others for your problems.

And who are the people "hurting" and being asked to sacrifice? It's teachers, the working poor and the middle class, that's who. American workers, that's who. It sure ain't Wall Street executives or anyone in the top 2% - they get continued tax relief while the rest are left go under water.

Sure they are. But those people hurting is not the bi-product of some other group of people accumulating wealth.

To the issue of the workng poor and teachers etc. I believe Rand would simply say that it is not the responsibility of others to maintain their standard of living. You are not entitled to be insulated from all fluctuating market conditions. Your job may not be as valuable tomorrow as it is today. When you say whiny bullshit like 'the rest are left to go under water' I have to ask the question who is it you believe 'left' you there? Regardless of whomever or whatever you think it is THAT is the problem in the thinking of you lefties. No one left you there. You no why? Because it wasn't anyone elses fucking job in the first place to keep you from getting left somewhere on the lower rungs of the standard of living ladder. It was YOUR job to take the actions that need to be taken in order to be where you wanted to be.

That's all well and good, but the problem is you're playing the blame game which does NOT actually SOLVE the problem. Coulda shoulda woulda is no answer, nor is labeling everyone who isn't a successful working stiff as some sort of lazy ass. A LOT of circumstances surround every single story, many of which have results that were unavoidable. I get sick of people like you who think everyone has the same opportunity. It's utter bullshit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are ignoring the constitutional and factual reality that "(2) a Republic is governed by republican representation, the election of representatives by the people. "

Americans will not permit militia soviets, bigreb, in the U.S., because that is what you are implying.

I wrote, "Capitalism is economics, bigreb, while social democracy is a reform movement. Neither conflicts with the constitutional Republic. Let's review for you: (1) the Constitution is the ultimate law of the land; (2) a Republic is governed by republican representation, the election of representatives by the people. You with me on this?"

Stay with what I wrote, bud, and tell me how that conflicts with a constitutional republic?

Democracy majority rule mob rule
conflicts with
Constitutional Republic, Rule by law.
BUB

No here's what I am implying ^^^^^^^^^

You don't understand American history, our Constitution, or how our politics work. Militia soviets will not be allowed to rule in America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are ignoring the constitutional and factual reality that "(2) a Republic is governed by republican representation, the election of representatives by the people. "

Americans will not permit militia soviets, bigreb, in the U.S., because that is what you are implying.

Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Every state has a republican system of government.

Because you don't like what the majority decides doesn't matter at all washamerican.

militia soviets will not be allowed to rule.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can't wait until this movie comes out, France would not allow it to be written in the French language, they certainly felt threatened by it, but they should as it shows the evils of socialism. I think Obama needs to read it.

I hope that all of you conservatives and independents take your voting age children to see this movie. It will change them from mush heads that believe anything they hear and see and turn them into critical thinkers of government policy and the fallacies that are being promoted today by a very liberal bunch of mush heads who happen to be in the executive office.

I hear it was a businessman that invested 10 million dollars to make this movie. Please pass this information on to all of your contacts and urge them to see it. It makes you think and think critically.

Obama probably read it many years ago. Ironically, depending on the age of the children, they may come away from the movie scratching their heads and asking mommy whether or not daddy plans to quit his job just so he can make a point, or if daddy does quit his job, how will I eat? Will I still be able to get a new I-Pod?

or if daddy quits his job to be president, even after saying he wouldn't.... just to make his point.
most of the arguing i haer doesn't deliniate between selfish and selfless, it's all in the book.

It's comments like the one you make above makes it very clear that you can't be taken seriously.

 

[editec]

I see very little evidence on this board that most of you who claim this book and think it is your idea of a brilliant social commentary ever read it.

I think many of you know the Title, know that your masters told you it is brilliant and are trying to fake you love for it on this board.

Some of you so self-proclaiming cons have read it, no doubt, but I doubt all of you here testifying how good it is really did.

Becase as many of you proved to me time after time that you don't read much of anything, I seriously doubt many of you waded though that deadingly boring, bloated politically science screed.

Truner Dairies, that's I'd believe most of you cons might wade through.

But Atlas Shrugged?

Not a chance.




I think many of you so called freedom loving cons are basically liars.

ask me anything... i don't know your "truner diaries"

have you read it ? are you saying it's a bad book/philosophy ?

If the shoe I cobbled doesn't fit you, there's no need to protest that your toes are pinched, Wash.

I don't doubt some of you self proclaiming conservatives have waded though that deadly long, screed plagued tome.

But when people here whose writing suggests that they never read anything serious, suddently start telling us how brillant ATLAS SHRUGGED is, I am more than just a little dubious.

I haven't read A.S since about '64, so no pop quiz will be forthcoming.

At the time I read it, of course, I loved it.

Of course, at the time I was a kid, too, and like most kids didn't know how the world really worked or how REAL PEOPLE WHO ARENT CARDBOARD CUT OUT LITERALY CHARACTERS act, either.

You know, much like Ayn Rand obviously never really understood human nature, and how most Libertarians notwits don't, too?

The woman was mad as a hatter, far as I can tell.

Mad as a hatter but crazy like a fox, as me mother might have put it

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Ok, I 've read about Ayn Rand for 5 minutes, now I'm an expert. Let's discuss the mystery of her appeal to Conservatives, starting with this:

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

—Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

I'm still waiting on an answer re the commune the "producers" form to get away from "evil" society.

 

[washamericom]

I see very little evidence on this board that most of you who claim this book and think it is your idea of a brilliant social commentary ever read it.

I think many of you know the Title, know that your masters told you it is brilliant and are trying to fake you love for it on this board.

Some of you so self-proclaiming cons have read it, no doubt, but I doubt all of you here testifying how good it is really did.

Becase as many of you proved to me time after time that you don't read much of anything, I seriously doubt many of you waded though that deadingly boring, bloated politically science screed.

Truner Dairies, that's I'd believe most of you cons might wade through.

But Atlas Shrugged?

Not a chance.




I think many of you so called freedom loving cons are basically liars.

ask me anything... i don't know your "truner diaries"

have you read it ? are you saying it's a bad book/philosophy ?

If the shoe I cobbled doesn't fit you, there's no need to protest that your toes are pinched, Wash.

??? actually this would be revealing as a business model

I don't doubt some of you self proclaiming conservatives have waded though that deadly long, screed plagued tome.

??

But when people here whose writing suggests that they never read anything serious, suddently start telling us how brillant ATLAS SHRUGGED is, I am more than just a little dubious.

suddenly, in 53 years ? like overnight success



i can't be accountable for other's opinions, only my own

I haven't read A.S since about '64, so no pop quiz will be forthcoming.

At the time I read it, of course, I loved it.

what changed in you ?

Of course, at the time I was a kid, toom and didn't know how the world really worked, either.

You know, much like Ayn Rand obviously never really understood human nature?

i think she understood it very well

The woman was mad as a hatter, far as I can tell.

i could say the same about nancy pelosi or mya angelou

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You are ignoring the constitutional and factual reality that "(2) a Republic is governed by republican representation, the election of representatives by the people. "

Americans will not permit militia soviets, bigreb, in the U.S., because that is what you are implying.

Democracy majority rule mob rule
conflicts with
Constitutional Republic, Rule by law.
BUB

No here's what I am implying ^^^^^^^^^

You don't understand American history, our Constitution, or how our politics work. Militia soviets will not be allowed to rule in America.

We can go back and forth you do not know anything about the Constitution or how it works. You and stalin are blood brothers you mirror him.

 

[mudwhistle]

I have the book and am reading it. Because of it's length, 1168 pages of the prophetic wisdom of Ayn Rand, 50 years ago, the movie will be made in three separate productions. Can't wait. I am hoping the Independents will absorb it, for we know the Left will not.

They'll go Chernobyl on it.