Atheists More Suicidal, Marry Less, Have Fewer Children, More Depressed

[WelfareQueen]

I was an atheist long before atheism became cool

Atheism has NEVER been cool, WILL never be cool, CAN never be cool.
Calling yourself cool and intellectual and moral does not make any of them so.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." - Genesis 1:1

This is the first Sentence in the first Book of the Holy Bible. It took 2000 years for scientists to verify this fact scientifically. 2000 years. And atheists were furious. They tried to reject it but were FORCED to accept its accuracy by scientific discovery, Arno and Penzias specifically.

"Your mathematics is correct but your physics is abominable." - Albert Einstein to Father Georges Lemaitre, first proponent of the Primordial Atom, what we now know as the Big Bang

It would be years before Einstein would have to admit how wrong he was. Einstein didn't WANT there to be a creation instant. Too bad.

Hun, you are delusional. Verified what exactly? And you think Atheists are furious about what? Surely you jest and not trying to claim a god has made heaven and earth?

Ummm...I don't understand what you are trying to say about Einstein but I gotta tell you that I always thought that he was overrated.

Atheism is growing...................people are growing out of the fairy tales or horror stories if you prefer aka religion. It is now cool to not be religious.

Honestly, I have no problem with you professing atheism. This is America. You can believe what you choose. But the science is immutable. Those without faith die sooner, are more depressed and anxious, have less children and more broken marriages, and commit suicide at a much higher rate, They also are much more prone to alcoholism and substance abuse in general.

As long as you understand that and accept it, enjoy your Godlessness,

 

[harmonica]

Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. - Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt, American Journal of Psychiatry, December, 2004
Psychiatry Online


How will atheists try to squirm out of this science when they're constantly boasting of their "rationality" and "intellectualism".

......bullshit

 

[harmonica]

Atheism is often the result of a lifetime of unanswered prayers.

Atheism is the result of being blind to the obvious that surrounds us. It is almost a form of psychosis.

theism is the result of being blind to the obvious that surrounds us. It is almost a form of psychosis

.....blind??!!hahahaaaaa there's nothing to see
YOU people are being duped
..religion is man made = fake --fairy tales

 

[Meriweather]

How will atheists try to squirm out of this science when they're constantly boasting of their "rationality" and "intellectualism".

There is nothing out of which to squirm. Science tells us that in order to test any hypothesis (Atheists commit suicide more than believers) every other variable would have to be ruled out. Further, think of every major decision people make. There are usually three major reasons for that person to make that decision. Suicide is a major decision. I will bet not one of those suicides were thinking, "I am going to commit suicide because I do not believe in God." Let's look at depression, which is probably a top reason for committing suicide. Would a belief in God alleviated that depression? I think psychiatrists have noted that some of their patients have made positive life changes through developing a belief in God. They will also note that other patients have made positive life changes through leaving their religious beliefs.

A sense of failure is another reason often cited for suicides. This failure could be related being unsuccessful financially, through their love life, through family relationships, through loneliness.

Physical health is another reason for suicide.

A healthy faith provides hope and can move focus away from self onto others. This may help many decide against suicide, but other things can also provide hope and move focus from self onto others. The best I think can be said is that those with religious faith have that extra arrow in their quiver to help them through suicidal moments. Personally, I think lack of hope is the number one reason people commit suicide. While religious faith is a great source of hope, atheists can and do find hope in other places.

 

[danielpalos]

How will atheists try to squirm out of this science when they're constantly boasting of their "rationality" and "intellectualism".

Atheists may be more ethically and morally challenged because they don't simply engage in bigotry and hypocrisy and blame others for their own faults.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I suspect a lot of "Believers" are just hedging their bets in case it's all true.

I suspect a lot of "Believers" are just addled lemmings..

Do you ever add any information or even something amusing to a discussion, or must you simply crap all over and spread it around.

My Ignore List just grew by you. Life is too short to bother reading nonsense.

ciao brutto

Let's Examine Claims of Atheists

Proof There Is No God

Flatterer!

 

[Grumblenuts]

But the science is immutable. Those without faith die sooner, are more depressed and anxious, have less children and more broken marriages, and commit suicide at a much higher rate, They also are much more prone to alcoholism and substance abuse in general.

The difference ain't all that, but what do you expect anywhere nonconformists face constant pressure to accept the local main group's belief system or be discriminated against? "ASSIMILATE!".. "Resistance is futile" .. "Repent or burn!" .. Not really hard to understand given our specie's mental frailty and inherent social needs. Any small business startup is far more likely to succeed where the local religious bent is explicitly embraced, for example, along with the local football team.

 

[WelfareQueen]

But the science is immutable. Those without faith die sooner, are more depressed and anxious, have less children and more broken marriages, and commit suicide at a much higher rate, They also are much more prone to alcoholism and substance abuse in general.

The difference ain't all that, but what do you expect anywhere nonconformists face constant pressure to accept the local main group's belief system or be discriminated against? "ASSIMILATE!".. "Resistance is futile" .. "Repent or burn!" .. Not really hard to understand given our specie's mental frailty and inherent social needs. Any small business startup is far more likely to succeed where the local religious bent is explicitly embraced, for example, along with the local football team.

Science is not your friend.

 

[Grumblenuts]

What science?

A healthy faith provides hope and can move focus away from self onto others.

LOL. Yeah, once you figure out which faith is most embraced in your community so magically opens the most doors! That's actually being selfish. Embracing (or rejecting) all equally is being selfless. But go on kidding yourself till the cows arrive.

 

[Grumblenuts]

This science? (from OP's source):

This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness. It is notable that hopelessness and depression scores were similar in the religious and nonreligious group but that the two groups differed strongly on perceived reasons for living. This suggests that some positive aspect of religious affiliation overcame the negative effects of depression, stressful life events, and hopelessness. Perhaps this was also manifested in the presence of less suicidal ideation.

Our study showed a relationship between religious affiliation status and suicide attempts in a clinical sample of depressed inpatients. It seems that the constellation of religious beliefs and lower aggression level, together with a higher threshold for suicidal thoughts in religiously affiliated depressed subjects, reduces risk for suicidal acts. Given the insufficient attention to patients’ religious attitudes by psychiatrists in general, support for the patient’s own religious affiliation could be an additional resource in psychiatric and psychotherapeutic treatments targeting suicidal acts.

Applying findings from an admittedly limited sample is being admittedly fallacious. "Limited" both in sample size and scope. Explains why the actual scientists writing that paper were far more humble. They didn't proclaim the broad anti-atheist crap found in the OP's title. It took a determined ass to do that allegedly based upon this "science." Don't be such a putz WQ.

"Among those in treatment for attempted suicide..
Atheists (were found to be) More Suicidal, Marry Less, Have Fewer Children, More Depressed"

Hmm, being honest just doesn't deliver the same punch somehow

 

[Hollie]

Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. - Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt, American Journal of Psychiatry, December, 2004
Psychiatry Online


How will atheists try to squirm out of this science when they're constantly boasting of their "rationality" and "intellectualism".

So... you seem to have forgotten to include details of the study group.

From your link:
Two hundred ninety-five (79.5%) of the subjects had a diagnosis of major depressive disorder, and 76 (20.5%) had bipolar disorder, currently depressed. There were 189 subjects (50.9%) with a lifetime history of a suicide attempt. One hundred seventy-five (47.2%) had a history of substance use disorder. The mean clinical ratings were 20.1 (SD=6.2) on the Hamilton depression scale, 28.1 (SD=11.4) on the Beck Depression Inventory, and 36.3 (SD=8.1) on the BPRS. Among the subjects who reported a religious affiliation (N=305), the specific denominations endorsed were Catholicism (41.0%, N=125), Protestantism (28.5%, N=87), Judaism (17.4%, N=53), and other (13.1%, N=40).


Note my use of bold, gargantuan text for maximum dramatic effect.

 

[Meriweather]

LOL. Yeah, once you figure out which faith is most embraced in your community so magically opens the most doors! That's actually being selfish. Embracing (or rejecting) all equally is being selfless. But go on kidding yourself till the cows arrive.

I am afraid you have lost me. Are you speaking of social doors? If so, you couldn't be more wrong, but then socially, I have always been a bit of a hermit and my best friends are those of other faiths--or no faith at all.

My faith has taught me a way of life that has brought a lot of joy into my existence on earth. You can mock people of faith for being selfish because they follow a faith/way of life that enriches their very being--but are you arguing that really fine people are those who go through life joyless and dour? That the cheerless and the unloving are the most unselfish of all?

 

[james bond]

Atheism has a suicide problem

Atheism Has a Suicide Problem

Atheism Has a Suicide Problem

www.huffpost.com

Atheism was created by weak, foolish, and immoral people such as Socrates, Epicurus, and Diagorus. Socrates committed suicide. Epicurus died of excruciating pain of kidney stones. Diagorus was banished from Greece and died in Corinth.

Today, it is continue on by Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, Bart Ehrman, Lawrence Krauss, and several Hollywood celebrities. They want pleasure out of life, but discovered pleasure does not bring happiness. They are one of most pathetic people on Earth. They do not have anything to live for except themselves and the present.

David wrote, 'The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.' Psalm 14:1

 

[Grumblenuts]

LOL. Yeah, once you figure out which faith is most embraced in your community so magically opens the most doors! That's actually being selfish. Embracing (or rejecting) all equally is being selfless. But go on kidding yourself till the cows arrive.

I am afraid you have lost me. Are you speaking of social doors?

Well, gee. Let's see if I can help.. What was I addressing again?

A sense of failure is another reason often cited for suicides. This failure could be related being unsuccessful financially, through their love life, through family relationships, through loneliness.

Oh yeah, that's it. Thanks me.

Now what "doors" do you suppose relate to "being successful financially"? Is there really no obvious correlation between financial success and having a "love life"? I mean you gotta reach a certain threshold at least to have any real hope of maintaining a loving relationship. It's always been about providing for and protecting the kids ultimately.

We're still hunter gatherers mentally. Recently (in human species history) inventing a plethora of religious belief systems hasn't really changed us any. The lioness still chooses from mates that appear able to provide for and protect any potential cubs at a minimum. Love life, family, and loneliness are all similarly tied to "success" / "depression." Family is the "love" we're either stuck with or create for ourselves. Either way, loneliness follows from rejection of family. Non-family love is then said to be "thinner" because we're wired to take it or leave it with far less potential consequence emotionally.

 

[Hollie]

Atheism has a suicide problem

Atheism Has a Suicide Problem

Atheism Has a Suicide Problem

www.huffpost.com

Atheism was created by weak, foolish, and immoral people such as Socrates, Epicurus, and Diagorus. Socrates committed suicide. Epicurus died of excruciating pain of kidney stones. Diagorus was banished from Greece and died in Corinth.

Today, it is continue on by Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, Bart Ehrman, Lawrence Krauss, and several Hollywood celebrities. They want pleasure out of life, but discovered pleasure does not bring happiness. They are one of most pathetic people on Earth. They do not have anything to live for except themselves and the present.

David wrote, 'The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.' Psalm 14:1

Atheism was not created.

Like many of the angry, self-hating, hyper-religious types, your views toward competing religionists and those with no religious belief tends to be one of vicious, basically pathological hatred.

Let go of the hate / self-hate you harbor and you will no longer be a slave to the ideology of hate.

 

[Hollie]

Religion as a risk factor for suicide attempt and suicide ideation among depressed patients

We aimed to examine the relationship between religion and suicide attempt and ideation. 321 depressed patients were recruited from mood-disorder research studies at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. Participants were interviewed using the SCID, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Religion as a risk factor for suicide attempt and suicide ideation among depressed patients

Ryan E Lawrence, MD, MDiv., David Brent, MD., [...], and Maria A. Oquendo, MD.

We aimed to examine the relationship between religion and suicide attempt and ideation. 321 depressed patients were recruited from mood-disorder research studies at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. Participants were interviewed using the SCID, Columbia University Suicide History form, Scale for Suicide Ideation, and Reasons for Living Inventory. Participants were asked about their religious affiliation, importance of religion, and religious service attendance. We found that past suicide attempts were more common among depressed patients with a religious affiliation (OR 2.25, p=.007). Suicide ideation was greater among depressed patients who considered religion more important (Coeff. 1.18, p=.026), and those who attended services more frequently (Coeff. 1.99, p=.001). We conclude that the relationship between religion and suicide risk factors is complex, and can vary among different patient populations.

 

[ChemEngineer]

The Fallacy of Science vs. Religion
The atheists' frequent claim that science and religion are mutually exclusive is demonstrably false. If atheists were as "rational" and "intelligent" as they are always claiming, they would not constantly resort to mendacity. Science pursues truth.
The list of scientists as men and women faith is long and growing.
List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality, it is a profound source of spirituality. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”
” - Demon Haunted World, page 29, by Carl Sagan

“I believe in God more because of science than in spite of it.” – William Phillips, Nobel Laureate in Physics

“I think as Psalm 19, ‘the heavens proclaim the glory of God,’ that is, God reveals himself in all there is. All reality, to a greater or lesser extent, reveals the purpose of God. There is some purpose and connection to the world in all aspects of human experience.” – Arno Penzias, Nobel Prize winner in physics for co-discovery of background cosmic radiation, confirming the Big Bang, or the moment of creation
_____________________________________

The Atheist Claim of Rationality and Intellectual Superiority

Atheists claim intellectual superiority as if it were their birthright. Three separate problems arise immediately from their claims.
1. I have seen no evidence that atheists are, as a group, more intelligent than people of faith.
2. If such evidence of atheist intellectualism can be shown, it obviously does not apply to all atheists, but only the group average.
3. Most critically, intelligence has little correlation with wisdom, goodness, decency. Theodore Kaczynski, former math professor at UC Berkeley, is a genius. He just liked to mail package bombs to people he hated, to kill them.

If atheists are, on average, intellectually superior to people of faith, then why do they abandon their religious belief in atheism at a rate higher than any other group? (The Supreme Court has adjudged atheism a religion. Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961))



Ivy League Colleges all have Christian charters. Is there a single college with an atheist charter? Of course not.

Atheists marry less, by far, than those of faith. Marriage confers enormous mental and physical health benefits, showing how rational and intelligent it is to marry the opposite sex.

Recently the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life has published its mammoth study on Religion in America based on 35,000 interviews... According to the Pew Forum a whopping 37% of atheists never marry as opposed to 19% of the American population, 17% of Protestants and 17% of Catholics.[3]

The religious have better mental health into adulthood.
The abstract for the journal article Health and Well-Being Among the Non-religious: Atheists, Agnostics, and No Preference Compared with Religious Group Members published in the Journal of Religion and Health indicates: "On dimensions related to psychological well-being, atheists and agnostics tended to have worse outcomes than either those with religious affiliation or those with no religious preference."[2]
Global News reported:

“

Children who are raised with religious or spiritual beliefs tend to have better mental health into their adulthood, a new study from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health found. According to the study’s findings, people who attended weekly religious services or prayed or meditated daily in their childhood reported greater life satisfaction in their 20s. People who grew up in a religious household also reported fewer symptoms of depression and lower rates of post-traumatic stress disorder.[3]

Pointing out that people of faith are happier elicits another atheist snark: "Ignorance is bliss, ha ha ha". This is a clear reflection of atheist anger and hostility, further confirming that atheists are generally more miserable than people of faith.
Atheist anger and hostility
Apparently many atheists believe that calling you stupid and unscientific is supposed to win you over to their way of thinking. You don't really believe in that flying spaghetti monster, do you?

"Ridicule and show contempt" for the religious and their doctrines, said leading atheist, Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion.

"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." - Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals, a book he "dedicated to lucifer"



Philipians 4:8 "...whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
Psychological professionals in the 21st Century have affirmed the substantial benefits, both mental and physical, of positive thinking in countless scholarly experiments, published papers and books.
________________________________


The Snark of "Why would an all-knowing God do this!"
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - Isaiah 55:8-11
Atheists think themselves smarter than Nature's God, who created the universe and laws governing it. Infinite hubris.
_______________________
The Snark: "We do good for its own sake. You do good to get to heaven."
As if others can know the hearts of those who do good? If in fact atheists are so moral, why are there hundreds of hospitals operated by the faithful but not one atheist hospital? Not one atheist orphanage, or home for mothers, or soup kitchen? Where is their moral decency for those in need?
_________________________-
People of faith live longer than atheists.
For the study, a team of Ohio University academics, including associate professor of psychology Christian End, analysed more than 1,500 obituaries from across the US to piece together how the defining features of our lives affect our longevity.
These records include religious affiliations and marriage details as well as information on activities, hobbies and habits, which can help or hinder our health, not otherwise captured in census data.
The study, published in Social Psychological and Personality Science today, found that on average people whose obituary mentioned they were religious lived an extra 5.64 years.
Atheists commit suicide far more often than those of faith, which is clearly not "rational"
"Atheism: Contemporary Rates and Patterns" in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, ed. by Michael Martin, Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK (2005). In examining various indicators of societal health, Zuckerman concludes about suicide:
"Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization's report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia. Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism."[3]
The list of atheist shooters and serial killers does not correspond to claims of intellectual superiority and rationality.
Atheists have a long record of being mass shooters and militant atheism in general has a causal association with mass murder.
Due to this fact, peer reviewed research published in academic journals has found that society-at-large is likely to hold atheists responsible for capital criminal acts and that even atheists are likely to assume that serial killers are fellow atheists.[2][3][4]
_______________________________________
The Atheist Snark of "Argument From Incredulity"

The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone decides that something did not happen, because they cannot personally understand how it could happen. - rationalwiki.org
Actually, this snark is misapplied to any expression of amazement by anyone of faith, whether the subject happened or not, whether is understood or not. The automatic presumption is that the person making the observation is ignorant and the snarker understands completely. A more appropriate term is the Condescending Presumption of Intellectual Superiority.
"Astronomical spectroscopy is an almost magical technique. It amazes me still." Who would make this argument from incredulity? Carl Sagan in Cosmos, page 92.
"That we live in a universe which permits life is remarkable." - Ibid, page 250
"The information in the nucleus of our cells would fill a thousand volumes." - Ibid, page 276
"The information content of the human brain would fill some twenty million volumes." - Ibid, page 278

“The universe and the Laws of Physics seem to have been specifically designed for us. If any one of about 40 physical qualities had more than slightly different values, life as we know it could not exist: Either atoms would not be stable, or they wouldn’t combine into molecules, or the stars wouldn’t form heavier elements, or the universe would collapse before life could develop, and so on…” - Stephen Hawking, considered the best known scientist since Albert Einstein, Austin American-Statesmen, October 19, 1997

Pointing out the verifiable observations, such as the Anthropic Principle is not the "argument from incredulity" but rather Empirical Reality.
(empirical -adjective: verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic)

Finally, the ultimate irony of the Argument From Incredulity is the one posed by atheists themselves, viz. that God does not exist because they "cannot personally understand how it could happen."
___________________

“The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advance of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble.” – Adolf Hitler

"...indoctrinating them (scholars) with materialism, atheism, and the theory of evolution - the Chinese Communist Party systematically brainwashed a new generation of students, instilling hatred toward traditional culture. ... the CCP promoted atheism and launched ideological attacks against the belief in god.... using methods of violence and high pressure to suppress, persecute and, eliminate religions including the murder of religious practitioners." - The Epoch Times, July 29, 2019

Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins became atheists after long and exhaustive rational inquiries into the existence of God, both at the age of nine. - The Irrational Atheist, by Vox Day, page 243


The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined. – The Irrational Atheist, by Vox Day, page 240

Irrational Atheism​

Atheists always claim to be more rational and more intelligent than Christians. They do not provide evidence of their arrogant, pretentious claim, but even if they did, it does not begin to prove their claim that God does not exist. Implied but not stated is the presumption that BECAUSE atheists are much smarter than you are, THEY must be right, and YOU must be wrong. That does not logically follow, and is a clear Fallacy of the Argument From Authority. So the statement of intellectual superiority itself is irrational.


Atheists claim that "there is no proof" of God. They seem blissfully ignorant of the fact that proof only exists in mathematics. So says mathematics professor John Lennox, of Oxford University.

His remark is echoed by the late Carl Sagan, a militant agnostic and Leftist, who said, "Nothing is known for certain except in pure mathematics." Atheists seem to dispute even their beloved Carl Sagan as they insist that they know for certain that Darwin was indisputably right, though it is not known "for certain," according to Sagan, and therefore, what need for God? Atheists Stalin and Hitler agreed wholeheartedly.

_____________________________________

"Nothing will prevent me from eradicating totally, root and branch, all Christianity in Germany." - Adolf Hitler, April 7, 1933

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. We commence hostilities against the so-called Ten Commandments: the tablets from Sinai are no longer in force." - Adolf Hitler


“When I began my career as a cosmologist… I was a convinced atheist. I never imagined that I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true …. straightforward deductions of the laws of physics… I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics.” – Frank Tipler, professor of mathematical physics

“If you believe in evolution and naturalism then you have a reason not to think your faculties are reliable.” - Alvin Plantinga

"An atheist is a man who looks through a telescope and tries to explain what he can't see...." - Power to Influence People, by O.A. Battista

"The atheists are for the most part imprudent and misguided scholars who reason badly, who not being able to understand the Creation, the origin of evil and other difficulties have recourse to the hypothesis the eternity of things and of inevitability...." - Voltaire: Philosophical Dictionary
"Atheists put on false courage in the midst of their darkness and misapprehensions like children who when they fear to go in the dark will sing or whistle to keep their courage...." - Alexander Pope




“Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. - Vox Day
“I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how he could look up into the heavens and say there is no God.” -Abraham Lincoln

To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge." - Ravi Zacharias


Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. - C.S. Lewis, atheist turned Christian
“It is hard to see how a great man can be an atheist. Without the sustaining influence of faith in a divine power we could have little faith in ourselves. We need to feel that behind us is intelligence and love. Doubters do not achieve; skeptics do not contribute; cynics do not create. Faith is the great motive power, and no man realizes his full possibilities unless he has the deep conviction that life is eternally important, and that his work, well done, is a part of an unending plan. ” - Calvin Coolidge, speech, Jul. 25, 1924



La nature a des perfections pour montrer qu’elle est l’image de Dieu, et des défauts pour montrer qu’elle n’en est que l’image. Nature has some perfections to show that she is the image of God, and some defects to show that she is only His image. (Blaise Pascal, 1623–1662)



You cannot have rationality in a universe that is purely and solely material -matter. Matter is not rational, it doesn’t think, has, no consciousness and no will.



“The mind of God we believe is cosmic music, the music of strings, resonating through eleven dimensions of hyperspace. That is the mind of God.” – Michio Kaku, www.scienceworldreport.com, June 13, 2016



“As to the first cause of the universe, in the context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but our picture is incomplete without Him.” – British Theorist Edward Milne in his treatise on the theory of relativity



“If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million , the universe would have re-collapsed before it ever reached its present size.” - Physicist Stephen Hawking
“The universe and the laws of physics seem to have been designed specifically for us.” – Stephen Hawking

“It would be very difficult to explain why the universe should have begun in just this way except as the result of a God who intended to create beings like us.” – Stephen Hawking

“It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life.” – Arthur L. Schawlow, Professor of Physics, Stanford University, Nobel Laureate

“I believe I came from God and you believe you came from a monkey and you’ve convinced me you’re right.” – Dr. Ben Carson, neurosurgeon


“I believe in God because of a personal faith, a faith that is consistent with what I know about science.” – William Phillips



“Both religion and science need for their activities a belief in God, and moreover, God stands for the former in the beginning, and for the latter at the end of the whole thinking. For the former, God represents the basis, for the latter – the crown of any reasoning concerning the world-view.” – Max Planck



“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you.” – Werner Heisenberg



“The more thoroughly I conduct research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism.” – Lord Kelvin



“Science brings man closer to God.” “The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. Into his tiniest creatures, God has placed extraordinary properties….” – Louis Pasteur, pasteurization, immunology, confirmed the germ theory of disease




“I’m afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures and engraving them in the heart of youth.” – Martin Luther (1483 – 1546)

______________________________​

“Four Big Bangs” That Kill Atheism
October 15, 2018 Daniel Currier
In a recent conversation with an atheist, I challenged him with four major topics his worldview can’t explain. I remembered them by using Frank Pastore's nice mental hook, the “four big bangs” that materialism can’t explain.
1. The “Cosmological Big Bang”
2. The “Biological Big Bang”
3. The “Psychological Big Bang”
4. The “Moral Big Bang”
When atheists try to explain these away, there seems to be much hand waving and “just so” stories. I love lines like, “sure, we don’t know, but at least we’re humble because we admit we don’t know” or “at least we don’t believe in the God of the gaps.”
But I digress, each of these four items are predicated upon something, almost magically, the popping into existence of things when the wheel of time is spun.
1) The “Cosmological Big Bang”
This is the most fundamental issue the materialists struggle to explain. I want to be clear, I’m not talking about when the universe started to exist, rather that it did start to exist. Things are much more likely not to exist than to exist. They can’t explain why.
This “just so story” sounds like this: the universe popped into existence, like “poof”, and then expanded through eons of time. Sometimes the claim is that there was nothing and that nothing turned into everything, as in “no thing” or “not anything” caused it all. Nothing is actually what rocks think about. That radical view takes much faith, more than I can muster. Really, are you afraid a pink elephant just appeared in your fridge and now is eating your salad?
Others say “nothing” means “something.” Don’t worry if this misnomer confuses you, the rest of us are confused too. If it’s “something,” please stop calling it “nothing,” right? They say this “nothing” was a singularity, or “all the matter in the universe smashed into an incredibly hot, infinitely dense speck of matter.” Or was this “nothing” some sort of quantum vacuum?
The problem becomes exponentially worse when we understand that the universe is finely tuned. To explain what I mean by fine tuning, think of the International Space Station, or even your car, mower, vacuum or microwave. Even the simplest of these are finely tuned. Many things need to be just right or else the machine does not work. There are many more ways for machines not to work than to work.
The universe is no different, except for it is exponentially more finely tuned, the most complex structure known. So many constants need to be just right. If not, the universe, all the elements, our solar system, our sun and our earth would not exist. In addition, life on earth would not exist if these constraints were not tuned to be just right.
Examples of some of these constants include things like the strength of the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, the electromagnetic force and the gravitational constant.
Scientist and agnostic Robert Jastrow, says this in “The Enchanted Loom”:
“Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the Biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and Biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.”
We may disagree with some of his thoughts, but his main point is true; the evidence points to the biblical God. Simply put, from our experience, nothing ever makes something. Everything that begins to exist had a prior cause. Also, the fine tuning of the universe, like carburetors, cars and chainsaws, points to a fine tuner. Finely tuned things ultimately have an intelligent cause.

2) The “Biological Big Bang”​

First dead matter, then alive matter, that’s the problem. Am I just to believe that a “poof,” composed of eons of time, created life? We could talk about the debunked “spontaneous generation” hypothesis from history to the modern “abiogenesis” version, but both have the same issue, lacking evidence.
Paul Davies, a well-known Astrobiologist, says this, “One of the great mysteries of life is how it began. What physical process transformed a nonliving mix of chemicals into something as complex as a living cell?” In a conversation on the Unbelievable radio show, he said we have no naturalistic theory for the origin of life. Anyone who has studied the origin of life will tell you the same. Life always comes from life. Life from non-life is a dead end, pardon the pun.
Also, you remember the fine tuning of the universe, right? Well, life too is finely tuned. From finely tuned cells, to finely tuned molecular machines, to finely tuned DNA code, to finely tuned molecules and all way to the finely tuned elements, life and its building blocks are finely tuned! Again, fine tuned things have an intelligent cause.
In addition, life’s microscopic machines are real machines, not metaphors. In biology, we find gears and motors, turbines and generators. These types of machines, from our experience, are always designed.
We must not forget the information contained in the cells. Again, from our universal experience, meaningful and functional information like this always comes from minds.

3) The “Psychological Big Bang”​

The question is simple, how did consciousness arise? From a bacteria like cell, to a blob brain, to a mind?
Somehow we acquired the capacity for creativity and consciousness, design and beauty, self-awareness and self-reflection. From proverbs to poems, to meaning and methods, to emotions and economics.
We have mental abilities, and complementary physical abilities that other organisms don’t have. We love beauty, love the arts and love music. In addition to beauty appreciation, we can make it too.
We can do complex mathematics, we have a complex language and we have the ability to create complex technology.
Our technology, as a whole, not only needs intelligent minds to dream and design, but also proper bodies to create. But there is another level too, that is the topic of fire. Most of our technology requires fire in manufacturing. Very few things, if any, were created without the help of fire.
Here is the interesting part, we are the only creatures on earth that can use fire. Not only do our minds have the ability, but we also have the proper body to make and interact with fire.
Greased with the ingredient of eons of time, this all seems so much like a fairy-tale for grownups!

4) The “Morality Big Bang”​

Let me get this straight, we were some type of amoral animals, and through another poof of evolutionary generations, we now possess moral sensibilities? Why is it wrong for one Bag-O-Chemicals to bump off another Bag-O-Chemicals? Why is it wrong to torture babies for the fun of it, and right to treat them kindly?
If our main purpose on earth is to just pass down our genes to the next generation, as many Darwinists say, why the “me too” movement and why is rape so wrong? Oh, am I not supposed to bring up that conundrum? Why do we know those things are bad, wrong and evil? Why is it more wrong for one to try to trip someone maliciously and fail than for one to accidentally trip another? Who cares?
In an atheistic universe, there is no ultimate morality, except for pragmatic reasons. The only reason we do what is “right” is because it helps us. But that does not make things good or evil! And the “it just helps me” line seems quite selfish, so why would that be good?
And why is it a good thing to pass on our genes to the next generation? First, who cares if our genetics are passed on or not passed on? Second, the point seems quite circular. It’s good because it’s good. We are reusing moral language to explain the existence of morality.

The Monstrous Mountain to Climb​

Again, each of these four “big bangs” point to God. They are a monstrous mountain to climb, and when the atheist scientist scales them…well, let me quote Robert Jastrow again from his work God and the Astronomers.

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

Sin corrupts. Sin rebels. Sin destroys. Sin deceives. Sin kills.

Physics dances to the tune of mathematics. This was elegantly demonstrated when Father Georges Lemaitre proposed his theory of the "primordial atom" to Albert Einstein, based on Einstein's equations. Said Einstein, who wanted there to be no beginning, "Your mathematics is correct but your physics is abominable." Oops! It took years for Einstein and other top physicists to see that the Priest was right and so was the First Sentence of the Holy Bible: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." You see, scientists did not want that to be correct, and they still don't.
How much more does Darwin's Tautology dance to the tune of mathematics when the probability of original polypeptide synthesis is insuperable. Titin, with 33,450 amino acid residues could only have been the result of 1/20 to the 33,450th power. And it is only 1 of over 5,000 proteins in humans that didn't make themselves.​

​

 

[Hollie]

Jerry Coyne, When science meets religion in the classroom p275

Rather, advocates of ID pretend to use scientific methods to support their religious preconceptions. It has no more place in the biology classroom than geocentrism has in the astronomy curriculum.

David Leaf, Teaching about ID helps students see its flaws p275

Although it seems to have been resurrected for religious or cultural agendas, ID's proponents have made empirical claims that can be examined. Many college students are curious about ID but have little knowledge of the claims made for it. In my experience, upper-level biology students with the appropriate background in molecular biology, genetics, developmental biology and evolution are capable of distinguishing the scientific merits of evolutionist and ID claims — to the great disadvantage of ID.

Students who themselves determine that ID does not cut the scientific mustard will be more effective in their support of teaching mainstream science. Students who remain creationists or fence-sitters will at least have a better understanding of why ID has not been widely accepted in the scientific community.

It may seem contradictory to offer a course on ID and evolution in colleges and oppose teaching ID in high schools. But high-school students are just learning the basics of science. To expect them to make a well-reasoned judgement about the status of any scientific theory, including evolution, is unrealistic.

Chris Miller, Evolution is a short-order cook, not a watchmaker p275

A terrific argument against ID came to me recently after two consecutive talks, one on the Wnt signalling pathway, the next on G-protein crosstalk in control of cellular calcium. Just look at the details, and you'll immediately abandon all thoughts that biological systems were designed with any intelligence whatsoever.

Douglas W. Yu, Seeking evidence of God's work undermines faith p275

The Bible throughout teaches that faith is more valuable when expressed in the absence of evidence. For a Christian, when science is allowed to be neutral on the subject of God, science can only bolster faith. In contrast, and I imagine without realizing it, ID proponents have become professional Doubting Thomases, funded by Doubting Thomas Institutes. When advocates of ID use the vocabulary of science to argue for God's presence in cellular machinery or in the fossil record, they too poke their fingers through Jesus' hands. In so doing, ID vitiates faith.

Rustum Roy, Leave well alone and stick to teaching what you know p276

There are some very skilled experts on the topic of how to deal with different cultures or belief systems. Their advice, from experience, would be: leave well alone. Act like a scientist, confident in your own — always tentative, always open to change — axioms and laws. Read the literature, for God's (or Darwin's) sake. It will prove to you that even graduates of MIT and Harvard do not know simple scientific facts that are irrelevant to their work, such as why the Earth experiences winter and summer, despite having been explicitly taught such facts several times during their education. This amazing ignorance does not affect their performance as scientists. I do not know a single materials scientist or engineer whose technical work would be affected by their beliefs about evolution/ID. My advice: relax. It can do very little harm. Ham-fisted efforts will simply alienate much larger numbers of people from the rest of science

Michael Lynch, Intelligent design or intellectual laziness? p276

Less widely appreciated is that evolution has long been the most quantitative field of biology, well grounded in the general principles of transmission genetics. Yet few students at university, and almost none at high school, are exposed to the mathematical underpinnings of evolutionary theory. The teaching of evolution purely as history, with little consideration given to the underlying mechanisms, reinforces the false view that evolution is one of the softer areas of science.

Dan Graur, Solidarity with the oppressed flat-Earthers p276

was disturbed by your News Feature "Who has designs on your students' minds?" (Nature 434, 1062−1065; 2005), in which the proponents of ID are mostly portrayed as a persecuted minority. They are said to be afraid to reveal their identity and to be frequently censured into silence by anti-democratic scientists and administrators.

Your reporter clearly does not realize that 'intelligent designers' are not the only minority bullied into submission by the scientific establishment. The vast majority of flat-Earthers, tea-leaf readers, astrologers, geocentrists and phlogiston theorists cannot publish their studies in respectable journals. It is rumoured that Nature has rejected without review a study showing that storks bring babies into the world. I have even heard of a physician who was fired from a university hospital for trying to cure his patients by altering the ratio of blood to yellow bile and phlegm to black bile.

Thanks to your News Feature, I am now convinced that by replacing "small, medium and large" with "tall, grande and venti" — as in my local coffee-shop — the disreputable theory of biblical creationism can be turned into a respectable scientific discipline called 'intelligent design'.

 

[Grumblenuts]

LOL. Spam, spam, spam, spam!

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Fallacy of Science vs. Religion

OP changes the subject by introducing a fallacious "Fallacy"

Scientific Faith Is Different From Religious Faith

Not all beliefs are equal.

www.theatlantic.com