Atheists... how did evolution come into existance?

[alang1216]

It was already pointed out that Urey-Miller failed due to wrong assumptions of primal atmospheric gases. You can't just have any chemicals. It has to convert amino acids to protein. Instead, we found only living organisms can do this, so abiogenesis doesn't happen.

A god-of-the-gaps argument. We don't know exactly how it happened so God must have done it. Shakey ground to draw your line as all previous gaps have shown to be ephemeral:

A key player has been John Sutherland of the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, UK. In 2009 he demonstrated that two of the four building blocks of RNA form from simple carbon-based chemicals, if they are subjected to simple treatments like being bathed in ultraviolet radiation. He has since shown that the same starter chemicals, given subtly different treatments, can also become the building blocks of proteins, or of the fatty lipids that make up the outer membranes of cells.​

I used no God as the cause of Urey-Miller's failure. They were wrong in their assumptions of the gases in the primal universe. If I said, God wouldn't allow amino acids to happen would be a God of the gaps argument.

You complain because without a beginning to life ToE didn't happen.

Urey-Miller didn't fail. It successfully demonstrated that simple molecules can spontaneously combine to form more complex ones.

We both believe that abiogenesis happened, we just differ as to the cause, God or nature. Irrelevant to the ToE.

 

[Hollie]

It was already pointed out that Urey-Miller failed due to wrong assumptions of primal atmospheric gases. You can't just have any chemicals. It has to convert amino acids to protein. Instead, we found only living organisms can do this, so abiogenesis doesn't happen.

A god-of-the-gaps argument. We don't know exactly how it happened so God must have done it. Shakey ground to draw your line as all previous gaps have shown to be ephemeral:

A key player has been John Sutherland of the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, UK. In 2009 he demonstrated that two of the four building blocks of RNA form from simple carbon-based chemicals, if they are subjected to simple treatments like being bathed in ultraviolet radiation. He has since shown that the same starter chemicals, given subtly different treatments, can also become the building blocks of proteins, or of the fatty lipids that make up the outer membranes of cells.​

I used no God as the cause of Urey-Miller's failure. They were wrong in their assumptions of the gases in the primal universe. If I said, God wouldn't allow amino acids to happen would be a God of the gaps argument.

You complain because without a beginning to life ToE didn't happen.

While it’s possible that those fat, naked babies playing harps in heaven had something to do with this...

Meteorite That Fell in 1969 Still Revealing Secrets of the Early Solar System

A new analysis of the Murchison meteorite, which fell to Earth more than 40 years ago, reveals tens of thousands of organic compounds

www.scientificamerican.com

Fragments of a chemically primitive meteorite that landed near Murchison, Australia, in 1969 have long been known to harbor a variety of interesting compounds, including dozens of amino acids. But as analytic techniques become more sophisticated, the Murchison meteorite continues to reveal even more diversity and complexity in the early solar system, and new work by a team of European researchers is no exception.

 

[esalla]

It was already pointed out that Urey-Miller failed due to wrong assumptions of primal atmospheric gases. You can't just have any chemicals. It has to convert amino acids to protein. Instead, we found only living organisms can do this, so abiogenesis doesn't happen.

A god-of-the-gaps argument. We don't know exactly how it happened so God must have done it. Shakey ground to draw your line as all previous gaps have shown to be ephemeral:

A key player has been John Sutherland of the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, UK. In 2009 he demonstrated that two of the four building blocks of RNA form from simple carbon-based chemicals, if they are subjected to simple treatments like being bathed in ultraviolet radiation. He has since shown that the same starter chemicals, given subtly different treatments, can also become the building blocks of proteins, or of the fatty lipids that make up the outer membranes of cells.​

I used no God as the cause of Urey-Miller's failure. They were wrong in their assumptions of the gases in the primal universe. If I said, God wouldn't allow amino acids to happen would be a God of the gaps argument.

You complain because without a beginning to life ToE didn't happen.

While it’s possible that those fat, naked babies playing harps in heaven had something to do with this...

Meteorite That Fell in 1969 Still Revealing Secrets of the Early Solar System

A new analysis of the Murchison meteorite, which fell to Earth more than 40 years ago, reveals tens of thousands of organic compounds

www.scientificamerican.com

Fragments of a chemically primitive meteorite that landed near Murchison, Australia, in 1969 have long been known to harbor a variety of interesting compounds, including dozens of amino acids. But as analytic techniques become more sophisticated, the Murchison meteorite continues to reveal even more diversity and complexity in the early solar system, and new work by a team of European researchers is no exception.

Grow up kid, no one knows where any meteorite came from.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society", through its chosen representative here, declares:

It is a scientifically verifiable fact that a random chance process, which forms a chiral product, can only be a 50/50 mixture of the two optical isomers. There are no exceptions. Chirality is a property that only a few scientists would even recognize as a problem. The fact that chirality was missing in those amino acids is not just a problem to be debated, it points to a catastrophic failure that "life" cannot come from chemicals by natural processes."

So much melodrama.. Notice how the "random chance" processes presumed at first inexplicably morph into being the "natural processes" presumed at the end.

What this topic really needs is more films sporting scary Jehovah's Witness Tract cartoons..

 

[Hollie]

Here is the argument for abiogenesis from the website I use for evolution -- https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/side_0_0/origsoflife_02.

That said, it didn't happen that way. The evidence is no other life in our solar system and likely the universe. The fine tuning facts were discovered by the atheist scientists. Evolution tries to explain that away by saying okay, we are fine tuned and admit life is rare. If life is so rare as to Earth being the only planet to have it, then it favors creationism.

Why cite a source and then immediately reject that source?

Evolution does not say ''we are fine tuned''. Do your gods approve of such dishonesty?

Because the source does not really discuss fine tuning as the reason for no abiogenesis or alien life, not even a microbe. Instead, it just states Earth is fine tuned. You should've been able to deduce that life is rare and that we are it. To their credit, they do admit life is rare.

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

NASA - Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

Evidence that there is more than one way to make some components of life increases the likelihood that life emerged elsewhere in the Universe.

www.nasa.gov

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
03.09.12


Creating some of life's building blocks in space may be a bit like making a sandwich – you can make them cold or hot, according to new NASA research. This evidence that there is more than one way to make crucial components of life increases the likelihood that life emerged elsewhere in the Universe, according to the research team, and gives support to the theory that a "kit" of ready-made parts created in space and delivered to Earth by impacts from meteorites and comets assisted the origin of life.

In the study, scientists with the Astrobiology Analytical Laboratory at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., analyzed samples from fourteen carbon-rich meteorites with minerals that indicated they had experienced high temperatures – in some cases, over 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. They found amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins, used by life to speed up chemical reactions and build structures like hair, skin, and nails.

 

[JoeB131]

You are wrong as Urey-Miller has been relegated to history. Also, they didn't create proteins.

I never said proteins, I said amino acids. The point is, they could be created artificially in a lab environment, there's no reason why, over billions of years, they couldn't have formed under the same conditions.

But, no, it was all a plan by a Magic Sky Fairy so he could knock up a virgin and become his own father.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I mean, just imagine you were the lone Magic Sky Fairy.
Then the odds absolutely favor you getting horny one day and knocking up a young virgin, right?
I mean, why waste your single-use, immaculate wad on just any old hamster?
Then what?
I mean, what are you most likely to do now for an encore?
Obviously, yeah. Become your own offspring plus a ghost.
It all fits together so logically! Abiogenesis? Pshaw!

What??

 

[Grumblenuts]

I said I get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir
So that every mouth can be fed
Poor me Meteorites
I said my wife and my kids, they are packed up and leave me
Darling, she said, I was yours to be seen
Poor me Meteorites
Look me shirts them a-tear up, trousers are gone
I don't want to end up like Bonnie and Clyde
Poor me Meteorites
After a storm there must be a calm
They catch me in the farm
You sound your alarm
Poor me Meteorites
Poor me Meteorites, poor me Meteorites, poor me Meteorites

 

[james bond]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

 

[james bond]

You are wrong as Urey-Miller has been relegated to history. Also, they didn't create proteins.

I never said proteins, I said amino acids. The point is, they could be created artificially in a lab environment, there's no reason why, over billions of years, they couldn't have formed under the same conditions.

But, no, it was all a plan by a Magic Sky Fairy so he could knock up a virgin and become his own father.

I know what you meant, but I countered with chirality and that is why the amino acids could not form proteins even with a legitimate experiment (which Urey-Miller was not).

Furthermore, your amino acids would be dissolved by water if it comes into contact with water nearby. Thus, your atheist scientists are in a dilemma in that they need water for life, but the very nature of having it around would dissolve any amino acids that came into contact with the water. That is demonstrable by the scientific method.

 

[esalla]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

Why do you keep arguing with Hollie, she believes that she is pond scum and she might just be that

 

[james bond]

I mean, just imagine you were the lone Magic Sky Fairy.

God may be alone, but wasn't lonely. He's God so doesn't experience loneliness or horniness like humans. It is said that God made humans for his pleasure.

What makes you think he's the Magic Sky Fairy, i.e. make believe? We couldn't have what we have without the supernatural. Why do you think it's all natural? Oh yeah, some racist and immoral atheist from the past convinced you that you can be as immoral as you want to be short of breaking human laws. That genocide (Planned Parenthood and killing of poor minority babies) and abortion are legal.

 

[Hollie]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

Why would I question evilutionism when there is such a overwhelming body of evidence supporting it?

You dwell in a world where you denigrate everyone who is not a christian who accepts a strictly literal interpretation of the bible.

Being ''saved'' is a priority to you, because you believe that you need to be. That is through indoctrination in one set of ancient tales and fables from just one of hundreds of superstitious ideologies, otherwise called religions. You can be as wary as you want about "evilutionist atheist" doctrines. But are you suggesting that scientists should abandon their studies because it infringes on holy scripture? Should they halt their pursuit of knowledge because it conflicts with your religion-- even if your religion was held by 99% of the population? I think, sadly, that you are suggesting this.

Nothing is more dangerous than the man who thinks he has the god-ordained truth. In the words of Ingersoll:
"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God holds other people in contempt. Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God, there is in that man no spirit of compromise. He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature; he has the arrogance of theological certainty."

Perhaps you should consider that there are others who wish to exercise their rights of freedom of belief, even if it is in opposition to your own. Your supernaturally based descriptions of existence mean something to you because you believe in one partisan doctrine, but what has that got do to with science?


The charlatans you call "creation scientists" invent what they "bring up" only if it confoems to the "Statement of Faith" they agree to as a part of the creationer cult. If you have any new scientific data on creationism, you should come forward with it. Everything so far submitted by creationers has been completely lacking in evidence and totally unsubstantiated. Science is the process of learning and discovery, not reiterating theology. Have you ever stopped to consider that knowledge derives from inescapable conclusions drawn from the physical evidence that life has descended through millions of years from a common ancestor? Rational people accept biological evolution because that's what the evidence unambiguously tells us, and for no other reason.

 

[james bond]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

Why do you keep arguing with Hollie, she believes that she is pond scum and she might just be that

It's no just her, but she tries to make points using scientific atheism such as from the talk origins website and belittling the Bible, Christianity, and Intelligent Design. I don't argue ID, but like pointing out how the Bible answers her pov and explains how we are here without evolution or abiogenesis. The evidence is on the creation science side. Some Christians also believe in some evolution happening after the Big Bang. They are wrong, too, and I think they'll be misled.

I am trying to find Christians who believe in evolution as well as finding what other Christian faiths look like. I'm Methodist, so there's a lot of other Christian faiths that I am not aware of. It seems the Christians (no Catholicism) who believe in evolution are being misled. From polls, it appears there are about 33% Christians who believe in God's creation, but that evolution took over after that and disregard Book of Genesis.

 

[esalla]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

Why do you keep arguing with Hollie, she believes that she is pond scum and she might just be that

It's no just her, but she tries to make points using scientific atheism such as from the talk origins website and belittling the Bible, Christianity, and Intelligent Design. I don't argue ID, but like pointing out how the Bible answers her pov and explains how we are here without evolution or abiogenesis. The evidence is on the creation science side. Some Christians also believe in some evolution happening after the Big Bang. They are wrong, too, and I think they'll be misled.

I am trying to find Christians who believe in evolution as well as finding what other Christian faiths look like. I'm Methodist, so there's a lot of other Christian faiths that I am not aware of. It seems the Christians (no Catholicism) who believe in evolution are being misled. From polls, it appears there are about 33% Christians who believe in God's creation, but that evolution took over after that and disregard Book of Genesis.

She wants to believe that she is alone in the Universe. Not sure why, however science in general is now coming around to the fact that the simplest DNA is millions of times too complicated to write itself because nothing had nothing better to do

 

[Hollie]

I should point out that everyone should presume the following is false because it comes from those evilutionist atheist scientists who are only hoping to ‘pray’ on those who are weak of faith.

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

That goes against fine tuning and chriality, but that isn't mentioned in such articles.

Since you brought it up, some creation scientists have brought up that other planets could have a microbe from microbes traveling there via panspermia. Thus, a microbe there isn't a deal breaker. The atheist scientists would have to verify that it wasn't panspermia. I suppose this would be due to find one under the surface or showing there was no meteorite or large space rock nearby. Finding an intelligent alien would be a deal breaker tho and would cause great consternation among the Christians.

Why do you keep arguing with Hollie, she believes that she is pond scum and she might just be that

It's no just her, but she tries to make points using scientific atheism such as from the talk origins website and belittling the Bible, Christianity, and Intelligent Design. I don't argue ID, but like pointing out how the Bible answers her pov and explains how we are here without evolution or abiogenesis. The evidence is on the creation science side. Some Christians also believe in some evolution happening after the Big Bang. They are wrong, too, and I think they'll be misled.

I am trying to find Christians who believe in evolution as well as finding what other Christian faiths look like. I'm Methodist, so there's a lot of other Christian faiths that I am not aware of. It seems the Christians (no Catholicism) who believe in evolution are being misled. From polls, it appears there are about 33% Christians who believe in God's creation, but that evolution took over after that and disregard Book of Genesis.

If you can’t trust the guy with the big, funny hat, who can you trust?


Elsewhere in his speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope said:
“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

BTW, the Bible explains how we are here only if you accept magic and supernaturalism.

 

[Hollie]

Such sarcasm unless you finally saw the light and are now questioning evilution because it doesn't have falsification for the origins be. I have posted my evolution website's article for rare Earth a few times.

I’ve made the point before that I will offer creationers the method to falsify biological evolution. One way to falsify both biological evolution and common descent would be to prove that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Not surprisingly, creationers insist that to be true but fall short of any demonstration. ID’iot creationers could also falsify evolution by showing that the various forms of life have not changed significantly over time. Finding strong evidence that humans coexisted with dinosaurs or produce organisms that are currently known to have gone extinct millions of years ago should be a simple matter for the creationers to perform, but cannot.

 

[james bond]

Why would I question evilutionism when there is such a overwhelming body of evidence supporting it?

That's microevolution or natural selection which Alfred Russel Wallace wrote about. Not that Origin of Species writer who could not help but express his racism and sexism in the follow up book The Descent of Man.

Being ''saved'' is a priority to you, because you believe that you need to be.

While the rapture is important, it is not all there is with being born again.

The Bible guides us and tells us how to be. One needs to have faith in God first before the Holy Spirit comes and reveals himself and enters our body. Next, we learn about Jesus and what God did for us and the remembrance of Jesus as Son of Man and Son of God enters our heart like those who lovef us and we loved them, but are gone now. Then we will rise above the clouds to meet Jesus when he comes again instead of having our dead bodies be together with our spirit again and remain on Earth.

Today, the science of atheism has taken over our schools and media to the point that even Christians are swayed into believing in evolution and evolutionary thinking. What this means is that they could be misled before Jesus comes again. Satan masquerades as the light. We know that Jesus will come again soon and will have to be ready for him in our lifetimes.

 

[james bond]

No, abiogenesis is just make believe hypotheses for the atheists. There is no explanation of how it happens and you popping do not explain it like the others already being crucified for not explaining it like @Grumblenuts and @Hollie.

If it was scientific, then someone would have pointed it out by now. We've gone around 9 pages with no scientific hypotesis, i.e. explanation. for it.

Actually, the Miller-Uray Experiment demonstrated how it would be possible for chemicals to combine to create organic compounds.

Miller–Urey experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Stop it. You believe in miracles in science or lies of science. You can easily discard Urey-Miller as the experiment didn't show anything and was not a valid experiment to show abiogenesis or continue to believe what you want to believe of fake science. Notice not one microbe has been shown to have been created through these types of experiments. We haven't had one protein.

 

[Hollie]

Why would I question evilutionism when there is such a overwhelming body of evidence supporting it?

View attachment 416187

That's microevolution or natural selection which Alfred Russel Wallace wrote about. Not that Origin of Species writer who could not help but express his racism and sexism in the follow up book The Descent of Man.

Being ''saved'' is a priority to you, because you believe that you need to be.

While the rapture is important, it is not all there is with being born again.

The Bible guides us and tells us how to be. One needs to have faith in God first before the Holy Spirit comes and reveals himself and enters our body. Next, we learn about Jesus and what God did for us and the remembrance of Jesus as Son of Man and Son of God enters our heart like those who lovef us and we loved them, but are gone now. Then we will rise above the clouds to meet Jesus when he comes again instead of having our dead bodies be together with our spirit again and remain on Earth.

Today, the science of atheism has taken over our schools and media to the point that even Christians are swayed into believing in evolution and evolutionary thinking. What this means is that they could be misled before Jesus comes again. Satan masquerades as the light. We know that Jesus will come again soon and will have to be ready for him in our lifetimes.

You might want to consider updating your knowledge base. A great deal has been learned about chemistry, biology, physics and the physical sciences since the mid 1850’s.

You seem unable to get past the definitions of evilution your fed on ID’iot creationer websites. Whatever it is you believe separates evilution from the creationer versions of micro, mini or macro evolution have little to do with the relevant sciences.

If, as you believe, Christians have been misled into believing in evilutionary thinking, well, who are you to question the will of the gods?