Atheism: See Spot Laugh

[Meriweather]

It fits Religion.

And I am telling you it does not. I think you might agree that by definition, "cult" either defines a small group of people--or a very narrow set of beliefs to which are strictly adhered.

 

[Meriweather]

I'd be careful about the teachings that "work". If you tried to conduct yourself per the teaching of the OT, for example, you would be quickly arrested.

I learned quite early in life that not everything is about me. In fact, very little is about me--and that includes all that is in the Bible. However, what is about me, has proven to be gold.

 

[G.T.]

It fits Religion.

And I am telling you it does not. I think you might agree that by definition, "cult" either defines a small group of people--or a very narrow set of beliefs to which are strictly adhered.

No, I don't agree. I think that's a subset of other definitions, and that the word Religion in fact APPEARS in the definition - so that appears to agree with my assertion.

cult
/kəlt/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   "the cult of St. Olaf"
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

 

[diver52]

I would have loved to see fundamentalist Christians when atheists were allowed to come in and explain why Jesus never existed and could not possibly be the son of God

In fact, it is easier to prove Jesus' existence than Socrates' existence--a truth on which atheists may wish to acknowledge. Proving the existence of Jesus from non-Biblical sources is a piece of cake. The Jews already have the best reasoning behind why Jesus cannot possibly be the son of God or one with Him, and this reasoning is more sound than any I've heard an atheist offer.

On this we do agree.

 

[Meriweather]

No classes. It began with kindergarten. You started out the day with a prayer, you had lunch with a prayer, you might be counseled by a teacher about Jesus. It was an ongoing barrage, all done with good intent. Fairly innocuous to most, but if you were Jewish.... a bit of a different story. But that was ok, because it was always in the kid's best interest. In third grade I watched as my best friend was asked, by our loving and caring teacher for whom I had something of a crush, if he wanted to go to hell. Scared the shit out of him, but it was with the best of intentions so it was fine.

So I don't trust your good intentions. I don't trust your classes. I don't trust that they won't give more attention to one religion and ignore others. I don't trust the teachers who will teach the classes. At the college level? That's fine. Now your dealing with adults. In a public school where you have children who have no choice and aren't equipped to challenge, no.

Did you go to Kindergarten understanding something like calculus? Or did higher learning come with time? it is sad that those who have lived as long as you feel that nothing has been learned over the past seventy years, and if we had elective classes, third grade teachers (haven't having learned a thing) would still tell those of the Jewish faith they are going to hell--and that it would be permitted because after all, an elective class is now being offered. I hold a belief in evolution...that humans do learn over time.

 

[BreezeWood]

You didnt ask my definition, and then felt free to state that which my definition encompasses.

Rather I read how you are applying the word cult, and that application is too broad for me. It fits everything. For example, the Physical Fitness Cult, the Vegan Cult. I myself belong to the Chinchilla Lovers cult.

.

Rather I read how you are applying the word cult, and that application is too broad for me.

everything less than the state is a cult.

that was / is the reasoning for minority rights that bible belt christians have ignored till the supreme court made it a reality - now they are the screamers - ringtone.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I don't agree. I think that's a subset of other definitions, and that the word Religion in fact APPEARS in the definition - so that appears to agree with my assertion.

cult
/kəlt/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   "the cult of St. Olaf"
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Yes. Read on to the second definition:

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

Not all people of faith belong to the cult of St. Olaf. Not all who go to the gym belong to the physical fitness cult.

 

[Hollie]

I'd be careful about the teachings that "work". If you tried to conduct yourself per the teaching of the OT, for example, you would be quickly arrested.

I learned quite early in life that not everything is about me. In fact, very little is about me--and that includes all that is in the Bible. However, what is about me, has proven to be gold.

I've seen the same with many christians. There is a great deal of picking and choosing that takes place and the theology becomes something of a haphazard collection of self-customized theism.

I've always thought that the strongest evidence against the existence of gods was first, their propensity not to be in existence, and secondly, the human authorship of the various holy texts alleging these gods with said gods never having editing rights.

 

[G.T.]

No, I don't agree. I think that's a subset of other definitions, and that the word Religion in fact APPEARS in the definition - so that appears to agree with my assertion.

cult
/kəlt/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   "the cult of St. Olaf"
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Yes. Read on to the second definition:

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

Not all people of faith belong to the cult of St. Olaf. Not all who go to the gym belong to the physical fitness cult.

I'm not invoking the second definition when I'm calling a Religion a Cult - I'm invoking the 1st, and physical fitness =/= Religion, in the sense I'm using it.

You're free to use the word however you see fit, Meri - but you're not free to tell me how I'm using it and what I mean by what I'm saying. You're free to ask, not build strawmen based on that which you've not even bothered to ask. This has been a gigantic waste of time, this aside.

 

[Ringtone]

I think of it as a burden shifting. I'm not the one arguing that there is any particular God or Gods - it's up to the one proposing an argument to define what they're arguing... and to sit in complaint that the cross examiner isn't making the definition is almost like having a discussion with a 3 year old.

Atheist slogan speak about burden of proof. The typical new atheist claims God doesn't exist, but can't or won't define what supposedly doesn't exist. Who but drooling retards or fools walk around denying the existence of things they can't define or don't understand?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I learned quite early in life that not everything is about me. In fact, very little is about me--and that includes all that is in the Bible. However, what is about me, has proven to be gold.

This is because your morality and ethics generally stem from where and when you were born. You then retro fit them to the parts of the bible which suit them, while discarding the parts that dont. And, voila! The illusion of prescience and prescription.

 

[Hollie]

I think of it as a burden shifting. I'm not the one arguing that there is any particular God or Gods - it's up to the one proposing an argument to define what they're arguing... and to sit in complaint that the cross examiner isn't making the definition is almost like having a discussion with a 3 year old.

Atheist slogan speak about burden of proof. The typical new atheist claims God doesn't exist, but can't or won't define what supposedly doesn't exist. Who but drooling retards or fools walk around denying the existence of things they can't define or don't understand?

Typical drooling religious extremist who expects others to disprove his versions of the gods.

Well, here ya' go. I have proof your gods don't exist.

Prove I don't.

 

[G.T.]

I think of it as a burden shifting. I'm not the one arguing that there is any particular God or Gods - it's up to the one proposing an argument to define what they're arguing... and to sit in complaint that the cross examiner isn't making the definition is almost like having a discussion with a 3 year old.

Atheist slogan speak about burden of proof. The typical new atheist claims God doesn't exist, but can't or won't define what supposedly doesn't exist. Who but drooling retards or fools walk around denying the existence of things they can't define or don't understand?

I don't claim God or Gods don't exist - I merely point out that you're asserting bad arguments to claim that they do.

You're far too ******* stupid to grasp that nuance, there...far too ******* stupid.

 

[diver52]

No classes. It began with kindergarten. You started out the day with a prayer, you had lunch with a prayer, you might be counseled by a teacher about Jesus. It was an ongoing barrage, all done with good intent. Fairly innocuous to most, but if you were Jewish.... a bit of a different story. But that was ok, because it was always in the kid's best interest. In third grade I watched as my best friend was asked, by our loving and caring teacher for whom I had something of a crush, if he wanted to go to hell. Scared the shit out of him, but it was with the best of intentions so it was fine.

So I don't trust your good intentions. I don't trust your classes. I don't trust that they won't give more attention to one religion and ignore others. I don't trust the teachers who will teach the classes. At the college level? That's fine. Now your dealing with adults. In a public school where you have children who have no choice and aren't equipped to challenge, no.

Did you go to Kindergarten understanding something like calculus? Or did higher learning come with time? it is sad that those who have lived as long as you feel that nothing has been learned over the past seventy years, and if we had elective classes, third grade teachers (haven't having learned a thing) would still tell those of the Jewish faith they are going to hell--and that it would be permitted because after all, an elective class is now being offered. I hold a belief in evolution...that humans do learn over time.

Offered on what? Teaching what? Are you going to only have teachers who have no faith of their own to make sure there is no bias? How do you do that without violating that teacher's rights? Who will develop the curriculum and what are their agendas? What is the attitude of the school board? Sorry. Too many people with too many good intentions. Too many people trying to get their noses under the tent.

One thing I have learned over time is that humans seldom learn over time. I believe it was Churchill who said the one thing history teaches us is that history teaches us nothing.

 

[Ringtone]

I think you have outlined a part of the problem. The bible was written by men (some of the writers are unknown), who never met the alleged Jesus.

False/misleading.

The accounts of his life were written long after his death.

False.

Those accounts are taken with varying degrees of reliance by various sects / subsects of Christianity in this case. I would offer this is a part of the reason why Christianity has splintered into so many subsects.

False/misleading.

We also must realize that study of the cultures which invented these gods are cultures that believed many gods existed and that it was the hand of those gods who were the Universe Winders who opened every flower, moved the planets and affected the ebb and flow of life.

Atheist slogan speak sans a definition of God.

 

[Hollie]

I think you have outlined a part of the problem. The bible was written by men (some of the writers are unknown), who never met the alleged Jesus.

False/misleading.

The accounts of his life were written long after his death.

False.

Those accounts are taken with varying degrees of reliance by various sects / subsects of Christianity in this case. I would offer this is a part of the reason why Christianity has splintered into so many subsects.

False/misleading.

We also must realize that study of the cultures which invented these gods are cultures that believed many gods existed and that it was the hand of those gods who were the Universe Winders who opened every flower, moved the planets and affected the ebb and flow of life.

Atheist slogan speak sans a definition of God.

It's always the case that religious extremists are left stuttering and mumbling when their sacred cows are sent out to pasture.

 

[Meriweather]

I've seen the same with many christians. There is a great deal of picking and choosing that takes place and the theology becomes something of a haphazard collection of self-customized theism.

Not to mention seeing it around the Thanksgiving Dinner table. What individual comes in and eats the entire feast, thinking every bite is meant for him? So much cherry picking! White meat or dark? A small serving or a large one.

Jesus was once asked about the greatest commandment. He replied love God, love one's fellow man. A Rabbi, when asked about scripture had pretty much the same (well-known) response. I like how he put it even better. Love God, love your fellowman. The rest is just commentary.

So...no building Arks for me, no sacrificing my child, no going forth and telling Nineveh to repent, no spending three days in the belly of a big fish. Likewise, today, when asked to teach a class, I do not arrive at school intending to teach all classes being held at school that day.

Yes, what a cherry-picker! I'm quite good at it, wouldn't you say. (By the way, white meat and a second large serving of cranberries). However, I do come to the feast of loving God with all that is in me and remembering (perhaps not always succeeding) in loving my fellow man as I love myself (whom I also don't always love). Catholics are allowed to cherry pick quite a lot as long as we believe the essentials. Some Catholics take Genesis literally; some do not. We have many Catholic Saints who heartily disagreed with each other.

Love God. Love one another. God is with us/among us. Most of the rest...cherry picking. Go pick the best.

 

[Meriweather]

I've always thought that the strongest evidence against the existence of gods was first, their propensity not to be in existence, and secondly, the human authorship of the various holy texts alleging these gods with said gods never having editing rights.

The strongest evidence for God: Personal experiences.

 

[Ringtone]

I think you have outlined a part of the problem. The bible was written by men (some of the writers are unknown), who never met the alleged Jesus. The accounts of his life were written long after his death.

Yes. This was taught to us back in elementary school. You see, early Christians were convinced Jesus was returning in their own lifetime. It wasn't until the generation of Jesus were dying off that convinced the following generation(s) that they needed to record what was being said/taught.

Your counter is misleading. We know for a fact that Christ's sayings and works were recorded during his lifetime from a voluminous body of historical, textual criticism. The Gospels themselves were written within the First Century, merely a few decades after his resurrection, and the earliest epistle was written in 50 AD, less than two decades after his resurrection from which we know for a fact that Christ's divinity was an established doctrine within the Christian community less than a year after his resurrection.

 

[G.T.]

Love God. Love one another. God is with us/among us. Most of the rest...cherry picking. Go pick the best.

Those are merely assertions, that's the issue at hand.