Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[Foxfyre]

CS Lewis on his conversion to Christianity. He says in Mere Christianity:

But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea
of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was
bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself
in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water
animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was
nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—
for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen
to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words,
that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my
idea of justice—was full of sense.​

As a C.S. Lewis fan, I have struggled myself to articulate my belief that without JudeoChristianity, there is no sense of just or unjust but simply whatever the powers that be want to be the law will be the law arbitrarily enforced as the power that be choose to enforce them. God does make a difference.

I cannot think of one single nation in which Atheism is the only acceptable 'religion' that is not totalitarian and hostile to, even often lethal to any who oppose those in power or the policies they require the people to accept. Just or unjust. In the eye of the beholder.

 

[GreatestIam]

for good and evil to exist there must be a God.

Quite the unqualified statement.

 

[ding]

And you illogically apply that to ALL people who don't believe in your god.

No. Just the people who only believe the only thing that exists is the material world. It would not apply to anyone who believes they are more than just matter. So it is not limited to just people who practice the same religion as me.

 

[ding]

Being an atheist doesn't make you bad person just like being a Christian doesn't make you a good person.

Correct. And the same thing applies to Democrats and Republicans.

 

[GreatestIam]

Even when we have our own universe

Fairy tales can come true is your young at heart.

 

[Moonglow]

Unless yer into Confucianism.

 

[alang1216]

Is it? It seems to me that all religions teach that there are right and wrong ways of existing. That they all teach the value of being virtuous. Why don't you believe the desire for good over evil is innate? And if you do, how does that not negate what you just wrote?

Everyone believes in the value of being virtuous, even is they are not at times, and they know the difference between good and evil. The reality is that everyone's definition of good and evil is different. I think it is evil to let children go hungry because his parents can't or won't provide for them, others may think it is evil to force them to pay for those children.

 

[ding]

Everyone believes in the value of being virtuous, even is they are not at times, and they know the difference between good and evil. The reality is that everyone's definition of good and evil is different. I think it is evil to let children go hungry because his parents can't or won't provide for them, others may think it is evil to force them to pay for those children.

But their idea of what is good and evil are not diametrically opposite. For example some might believe that one wife is good and others might believe that multiple wives are good but no one is saying that you can take any woman you want. Now before you argue there was a time that that did happen, let me remind you that even back then there were those who knew better and didn't believe in that.

 

[alang1216]

But their idea of what is good and evil are not diametrically opposite. For example some might believe that one wife is good and others might believe that multiple wives are good but no one is saying that you can take any woman you want. Now before you argue there was a time that that did happen, let me remind you that even back then there were those who knew better and didn't believe in that.

No need to remind me since you only prove my point. In America 200 years ago, there were devout Christians who thought slavery was good and devout Christians who thought slavery was evil. The OP is "Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust". It seems Christianity likewise Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust. Christianity is a human invention so it is no better or worse than any other human invention.

 

[Cougarbear]

Fairy tales can come true is your young at heart.

Don’t be left out.

 

[Blues Man]

No. Just the people who only believe the only thing that exists is the material world. It would not apply to anyone who believes they are more than just matter. So it is not limited to just people who practice the same religion as me.

Yeah and they are ALL Marxists.

Right

So when people pain ALL Christians with a broad brush you can't complain

 

[Blues Man]

As a C.S. Lewis fan, I have struggled myself to articulate my belief that without JudeoChristianity, there is no sense of just or unjust but simply whatever the powers that be want to be the law will be the law arbitrarily enforced as the power that be choose to enforce them. God does make a difference.

I cannot think of one single nation in which Atheism is the only acceptable 'religion' that is not totalitarian and hostile to, even often lethal to any who oppose those in power or the policies they require the people to accept. Just or unjust. In the eye of the beholder.

The more secular the country the more just it is.

Secular humanism is the source of the most reasoned and just morals.

None of you Christians actually want all the moral laws that are in the bible. If you did you would want to stone to death any woman who was not a virgin on her wedding night. But none of you do that.

Why don't you do that? Because you know your moral code is better than the one in the bible. So when you cherry pick and ignore the word of your god in the bible when it conflicts with modern morality , like it or not you are choosing secular humanism

Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies

Which societies fare the best in today's world, the highly religious or the highly secular?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Blues Man]

That’s called discernment.
God will never ask you do something you think is evil.

And don’t try to draw parallels. You had no idea of thoughts of others.

I think worshipping a god is evil. Especially when that god murders people who piss him off.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The good of the many outweigh the good of the few

The rights of the minority outweigh the demands of the mob

 

[ding]

No need to remind me since you only prove my point. In America 200 years ago, there were devout Christians who thought slavery was good and devout Christians who thought slavery was evil. The OP is "Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust". It seems Christianity likewise Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust. Christianity is a human invention so it is no better or worse than any other human invention.

No, you are confusing the subjectivity of people with the objectivity of reality. All religions teach civility, morality and virtue.

 

[ding]

Yeah and they are ALL Marxists.

Right

So when people pain ALL Christians with a broad brush you can't complain

No, not all atheists are Marxists. But you can keep broad brushing Christians all you want. It only harms you.

 

[Blues Man]

No, not all atheists are Marxists. But you can keep broad brushing Christians all you want. It only harms you.

I don't broad brush anyone that's your thing

 

[ding]

I don't broad brush anyone that's your thing

Textbook Dunning effect.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I think worshipping a god is evil. Especially when that god murders people who piss him off.

Why are you still around?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Your morality is biased on the book you just happened to be raised with. Pure chance. If you were born in India you'd likely be just as religious and moral but your morality would be totally different. Random.

Took me 42 years to become a Christian.

Nice lie to try to bolster your delusions.