Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

good and evil are not subjective.
Other than this, we share the same notions.

I have tried to phrase an objective moral tenet and have found only one item that might always be applicable.

Do not kill when you can cure.

All other tenets on good and evil are subjective to me.
 
Compare that to inquisitions and jihads.

Early Christians ot the type Constantine bought along with the church, could not explain their supernatural take and thus turned to pure evil and violence against those with better explanations, like Gnostic Christians.
Inquisitions were atheists who used religion for power. Same with Jihadists. They use a cult for power.

You can point at people all day, doesn’t change the fact that in order for good and evil to exist there must be a God.
 
Maybe. But he thought he was doing good.
He was wrong. His morality failed. Real morality supports life and the success of all humanity. If it doesn't, it fails - because its followers die off. Morality is an evolved trait, not a pronouncement from on high.
 
Morality is an evolved trait of human societies. It promotes survival of the species. While religion has often been used to promote specific visions of morality, it is not the source.
What is the source?

Answer that and you show where good and evil come from, naturally, or who decides from a supernatural realm.

Carefullllllll
 
CS Lewis on his conversion to Christianity. He says in Mere Christianity:

But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea
of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was
bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself
in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water
animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was
nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—
for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen
to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words,
that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my
idea of justice—was full of sense.
I'd say that it is religion that offers "No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust". Actually it is even worse than that, religion offers many different Ideas of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust. Like a buffet, you can pick and choose what you want and be justified in your choice.
 
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the source of correct morality. Not the masses or the majority.
This is completely untrue.

The Jews follow their Oral Torah and in that tradition, man is above God and can contradict him. Jesus exemplifies this with his, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

I have not.

Have you?
 
He was wrong. His morality failed. Real morality supports life and the success of all humanity. If it doesn't, it fails - because its followers die off. Morality is an evolved trait, not a pronouncement from on high.
It’s your opinion he was wrong. Tens of millions think he was right and good.
 
I'd say that it is religion that offers "No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust". Actually it is even worse than that, religion offers many different Ideas of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust. Like a buffet, you can pick and choose what you want and be justified in your choice.
The God of Jacob has specifically documented what is good and evil.
 
It’s your opinion he was wrong. Tens of millions think he was right and good.
I don't trust your numbers, or much of anything else you say, but "tens of millions" is a tiny fraction of the world population. Hitler's vision of morality lost.
 
I am glad you found your source for morality. But that is certainly not the only source.
I think it is the best in the world, as it teaches great morals, as is proven by the numbers leaving the religion.

Have you not noticed how Christian apologists of the right wing variety have disappeared.

They are starting to dislike genocidal and homophobic God who are presently breaking up families with their vile anti-LGBTQ+ stance.

Yahweh is becoming an atheists best friend in saving the lost believers.
 
This is completely untrue.

The Jews follow their Oral Torah and in that tradition, man is above God and can contradict him. Jesus exemplifies this with his, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

I have not.

Have you?
That is not how Jews view their position with God. Where did you get that from? The Oral Torah were statutes and legal interpretations that were not recorded in the Five Books of Moses. It entails many things God also gave to Moses for a code of conduct, ordinances, laws and other directives by God to Moses. It was passed down from generation to generation orally until it was written down after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. It is called the Mishnah. Then, there is a series of commentaries and debates concerning the Mishnah called the Gemara. Together, the two books formed the Talmud. Never does it say man is above God.

To your second point. Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 saying that "Ye are gods, and children of the Most High." Meaning, we will always have our God whom we are never going to be above. We will always be His children. Even when we have our own universe for eternal increase and joy in our posterity.
 

Forum List

Back
Top