atheism and its follower are not bright

[Syriusly]

[. I am not saying that is proof of God. I am saying that has to be proof this could never have happened by chance without any intelligent force or designer..

That isn't proof of anything- except maybe your lack of understanding of what proof is.

That is your opinion. Your unsubstantiated opinion.

Now my opinion is that the modern theory of evolution is broadly correct, based upon the evidence that supports that theory. In my opinion we don't really know how the first life on earth came into being- but it is my opinion that all current life on earth is evolved from earlier life forms.

My opinion is based upon various evidence.

And none of that is required for me to be an atheist.

 

[JakeStarkey]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

 

[turzovka]

[. I am not saying that is proof of God. I am saying that has to be proof this could never have happened by chance without any intelligent force or designer..

That isn't proof of anything- except maybe your lack of understanding of what proof is.

That is your opinion. Your unsubstantiated opinion.

Now my opinion is that the modern theory of evolution is broadly correct, based upon the evidence that supports that theory. In my opinion we don't really know how the first life on earth came into being- but it is my opinion that all current life on earth is evolved from earlier life forms.

My opinion is based upon various evidence.

And none of that is required for me to be an atheist.
View attachment 80755

Ok, I get it.

But to believe that life just came to be and evolved without any intelligent force guiding it is a colossal leap of faith!!

So you and Penn Gillette can share your faith and be comforted.

And I do not care that atheism is not a religion, I agree. But it most certainly is a belief system and to me it is bizarre.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tres bizarre!

 

[HenryBHough]

That isn't proof of anything- except maybe your lack of understanding of what proof is.

That is your opinion. Your unsubstantiated opinion.

Now my opinion is that the modern theory of evolution is broadly correct, based upon the evidence that supports that theory. In my opinion we don't really know how the first life on earth came into being- but it is my opinion that all current life on earth is evolved from earlier life forms.

My opinion is based upon various evidence.

And none of that is required for me to be an atheist.

But are you really an atheist?

I ask because many consider me to be an atheist and I reject the concept. I understand the "science" that, if correct, points to a reality that goes back millions of years with lots of change along the way. But do I believe it? Fact is I really don't care. It seems logical but of no importance. As to various things I call "religious mythology"....I have no quarrel with anyone believing any of it. But, to me, of no importance. At times these opposing views are matters of curiosity for a short while but then along comes something that needs to be done and the bubble doesn't even burst....just shrinks away.

So what's that? Agnosticism? Or does one have to give a shit about whether there might or not be something about which to give a shit to "earn" even that title?

 

[Syriusly]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

 

[Syriusly]

[. I am not saying that is proof of God. I am saying that has to be proof this could never have happened by chance without any intelligent force or designer..

That isn't proof of anything- except maybe your lack of understanding of what proof is.

That is your opinion. Your unsubstantiated opinion.

Now my opinion is that the modern theory of evolution is broadly correct, based upon the evidence that supports that theory. In my opinion we don't really know how the first life on earth came into being- but it is my opinion that all current life on earth is evolved from earlier life forms.

My opinion is based upon various evidence.

And none of that is required for me to be an atheist.
View attachment 80755

Ok, I get it.

But to believe that life just came to be and evolved without any intelligent force guiding it is a colossal leap of faith!!

So you and Penn Gillette can share your faith and be comforted.

And I do not care that atheism is not a religion, I agree. But it most certainly is a belief system and to me it is bizarre.

I don't know how I can explain myself any more simply or slower for you.

I don't know how life came to be- I have an opinion on how life on Earth evolved to be what it is now.

Neither of those is fundamental or necessary for me to not believe in your fairy tales.

Imagine I am standing at the mouth of the Mississippi River on the Gulf Coast- and I see all of that water flowing out. I know that all of that water flowing past me came from further up the river, but I don't have to know where each drop of water started from to know that the water I am seeing started further up the river.

I also don't have to believe in that because there is a river, that means a River God must exist.

 

[Syriusly]

That isn't proof of anything- except maybe your lack of understanding of what proof is.

That is your opinion. Your unsubstantiated opinion.

Now my opinion is that the modern theory of evolution is broadly correct, based upon the evidence that supports that theory. In my opinion we don't really know how the first life on earth came into being- but it is my opinion that all current life on earth is evolved from earlier life forms.

My opinion is based upon various evidence.

And none of that is required for me to be an atheist.

But are you really an atheist?

Yes.

But thank you for a real post, expressing a real opinion.

It was refreshing

 

[JakeStarkey]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

And, yes, Henry's post was refreshing in its honesty.

 

[Syriusly]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense..

From the beginning I have been very clear- I don't believe in a god- any god.

There is nothing pseudo intellectual about it- I don't have to spend time pondering why I don't believe the fairy tales that you or others believe in- any more than I have to ponder why I don't collect stamps, like millions of Americans do.

I just don't.

And I don't go around calling you stupid because you happen to believe in your fairy tales.

Matter of fact, except for when people insist on telling me that I am stupid for not believing in those fairy tales, or that I or others should be living our lives according to their interpretation of those fairy tales- I am very respectful of people of faith. Believe what you will believe.

 

[turzovka]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense..

From the beginning I have been very clear- I don't believe in a god- any god.

There is nothing pseudo intellectual about it- I don't have to spend time pondering why I don't believe the fairy tales that you or others believe in- any more than I have to ponder why I don't collect stamps, like millions of Americans do.

I just don't.

And I don't go around calling you stupid because you happen to believe in your fairy tales.

Matter of fact, except for when people insist on telling me that I am stupid for not believing in those fairy tales, or that I or others should be living our lives according to their interpretation of those fairy tales- I am very respectful of people of faith. Believe what you will believe.

I do not think Jake is asking you to believe in any particular God. (He’s not exactly popular himself around here.)

I think he did call you pseudo-intellectual and that probably refers to the fact you either ignore the fact that rocks cannot become human beings, given enough time water and sunlight ---- or you simply think there are natural processes that could make that possible.

And for us, this is so anti-science and anti-logical and without sane reasoning we find it utterly absurd.

To take that further, we find it also a very cheap way of those who say there is no evidence for a supreme being or intelligence of trying to hold their ground by pretending evolution could happen on its own in the darkness of pure chance. To us, it is a miserable logical failure.

But you will not accept the origin of life as evidence for the supernatural, so be it. Still we hold our ground, you or yours make no logical sense to us.

 

[Syriusly]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense..

From the beginning I have been very clear- I don't believe in a god- any god.

There is nothing pseudo intellectual about it- I don't have to spend time pondering why I don't believe the fairy tales that you or others believe in- any more than I have to ponder why I don't collect stamps, like millions of Americans do.

I just don't.

And I don't go around calling you stupid because you happen to believe in your fairy tales.

Matter of fact, except for when people insist on telling me that I am stupid for not believing in those fairy tales, or that I or others should be living our lives according to their interpretation of those fairy tales- I am very respectful of people of faith. Believe what you will believe.

I do not think Jake is asking you to believe in any particular God. (He’s not exactly popular himself around here.)

I think he did call you pseudo-intellectual and that probably refers to the fact you either ignore the fact that rocks cannot become human beings, given enough time water and sunlight ---- or you simply think there are natural processes that could make that possible.

And for us, this is so anti-science and anti-logical and without sane reasoning we find it utterly absurd..

Well I think Jake can explain himself what he means.

I have explained myself to you three times now- and each time you don't understand what I have said and continue to portray my statements differently than what I have said. Not much point in explaining to you a fourth time.

I find your beliefs to be utterly absurd and irrational.
But I don't care that you believe something I find utterly absurd and irrational so long as you don't insist on attacking me for not believing what you believe.

 

[JakeStarkey]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense..

From the beginning I have been very clear- I don't believe in a god- any god.

There is nothing pseudo intellectual about it- I don't have to spend time pondering why I don't believe the fairy tales that you or others believe in- any more than I have to ponder why I don't collect stamps, like millions of Americans do.

I just don't.

And I don't go around calling you stupid because you happen to believe in your fairy tales.

Matter of fact, except for when people insist on telling me that I am stupid for not believing in those fairy tales, or that I or others should be living our lives according to their interpretation of those fairy tales- I am very respectful of people of faith. Believe what you will believe.

My advice to you then is to not knock theists when you get the chance. We are far more numerous and very capable and outing pseudo-intellectual atheist nonsense.

Yes, let's each believe that which we want and support each other's right to do so.

 

[JakeStarkey]

syriusly has neither the language or the logic to disprove the existence of God.

For instance: not collecting stamps has no faith implication, none; atheism is loaded with faith implication, completely,

Why would I have any need to disprove the existence of God, Thor, Bigfoot or Atlantis?

I have yet to see anyone have the language or the logic to prove the existence of a god- ANY god- out of the thousands and thousands of gods humans worship- or have worshiped.

Not believing in your fairy tales has no more faith implications than not collecting stamps has hobby implications.

If you have no need, then you are comfortable in your faith, which is fine. Just don't sugar coat with pseudo-intellectual nonsense..

From the beginning I have been very clear- I don't believe in a god- any god.

There is nothing pseudo intellectual about it- I don't have to spend time pondering why I don't believe the fairy tales that you or others believe in- any more than I have to ponder why I don't collect stamps, like millions of Americans do.

I just don't.

And I don't go around calling you stupid because you happen to believe in your fairy tales.

Matter of fact, except for when people insist on telling me that I am stupid for not believing in those fairy tales, or that I or others should be living our lives according to their interpretation of those fairy tales- I am very respectful of people of faith. Believe what you will believe.

I do not think Jake is asking you to believe in any particular God. (He’s not exactly popular himself around here.)

I think he did call you pseudo-intellectual and that probably refers to the fact you either ignore the fact that rocks cannot become human beings, given enough time water and sunlight ---- or you simply think there are natural processes that could make that possible.

And for us, this is so anti-science and anti-logical and without sane reasoning we find it utterly absurd..

Well I think Jake can explain himself what he means.

I have explained myself to you three times now- and each time you don't understand what I have said and continue to portray my statements differently than what I have said. Not much point in explaining to you a fourth time.

I find your beliefs to be utterly absurd and irrational.
But I don't care that you believe something I find utterly absurd and irrational so long as you don't insist on attacking me for not believing what you believe.

And the grounds for your belief are equally silly. That's the point. None of us have the logic or the language to "prove" either or. Accept that. I am not popular with Turzovka because he believes the RC is the "it" church and I have fun with that.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Just a simple fact.

You guys are not the logic queens you believe you are. Sorry: you are not very sharp,

Yes, it really is that simple.

And the only comeback (of sorts) they have is then "well then who made God?"

Which has no bearing on the subject, because it does not matter or change anything. The fact remains, without God or an intelligent designer and creator, we could never be. Something did not come from nothing, and then from that that mass of inanimate inorganic sludge or rocks could NEVER assemble itself into complex organic orderly life by chance! So get over yourselves and quit pretending you are being reasonable.

Actually me not knowing how everything came into being has no bearing on my lack of belief in any of your fairy tales.

The Big Bang theory is an interesting theory- but has nothing to do with my lack of belief in any fairy tales. I don't believe in your fairy tales because I don't believe in your fairy tales. There is no evidence that any of your fairy tales are true.

I don't believe in your fairy tales just as I don't collect stamps.

Actually, you saying "you not knowing" is tantamount to saying “I am afraid to confront a reasonable question that should have a reasonable answer.”

And that reasonable answer is this >>> No way in the world could a rock turn into organic life and no way in the world could the most rudimentary forms of life assemble eyes, ears, organs, spines. Et al. by chance!!

But you cannot get yourself to admit to that so you pretend this all could have happened without an outside intelligent force or designer.

We are not asking you to say it was the God of the Bible who was the Creator. We have not come close to that discussion. But you jump ahead because you are afraid to address the first part of the logical proposition.

First of all by stating the current hypotheses for angiogenesis as "rock turns into organic life" is a misrepresentation and a straw man fallacy.

Secondly, that you're incredulous about the theory of common descent and the processes of evolution is not a good argument and is also an argument from incredulity fallacy.

Thirdly, that no one knows the processes from which reality comes or how life formed is not an argument for a creator but is god-of-the-gaps fallacy.

Lastly, even if one acknowledges that the universe is apparently designed, it does not mean the universe is actually designed because that cannot be known with any real confidence (it is an unfalsifiable hypothesis) nor does it mean the designer is the God of the Bible or even a deity at all.

The best argument, in my opinion, based on evidence for a "god" is the fine-tuning argument and it in no way supports only that the God of the Bible designed the Universe that way, that any deity is responsible for the fine-tuning, or that the fine-tuning is even intentional.

 

[turzovka]

Just a simple fact.

You guys are not the logic queens you believe you are. Sorry: you are not very sharp,

Yes, it really is that simple.

And the only comeback (of sorts) they have is then "well then who made God?"

Which has no bearing on the subject, because it does not matter or change anything. The fact remains, without God or an intelligent designer and creator, we could never be. Something did not come from nothing, and then from that that mass of inanimate inorganic sludge or rocks could NEVER assemble itself into complex organic orderly life by chance! So get over yourselves and quit pretending you are being reasonable.

Actually me not knowing how everything came into being has no bearing on my lack of belief in any of your fairy tales.

The Big Bang theory is an interesting theory- but has nothing to do with my lack of belief in any fairy tales. I don't believe in your fairy tales because I don't believe in your fairy tales. There is no evidence that any of your fairy tales are true.

I don't believe in your fairy tales just as I don't collect stamps.

Actually, you saying "you not knowing" is tantamount to saying “I am afraid to confront a reasonable question that should have a reasonable answer.”

And that reasonable answer is this >>> No way in the world could a rock turn into organic life and no way in the world could the most rudimentary forms of life assemble eyes, ears, organs, spines. Et al. by chance!!

But you cannot get yourself to admit to that so you pretend this all could have happened without an outside intelligent force or designer.

We are not asking you to say it was the God of the Bible who was the Creator. We have not come close to that discussion. But you jump ahead because you are afraid to address the first part of the logical proposition.

First of all by stating the current hypotheses for angiogenesis as "rock turns into organic life" is a misrepresentation and a straw man fallacy.

Secondly, that you're incredulous about the theory of common descent and the processes of evolution is not a good argument and is also an argument from incredulity fallacy.

Thirdly, that no one knows the processes from which reality comes or how life formed is not an argument for a creator but is god-of-the-gaps fallacy.

Lastly, even if one acknowledges that the universe is apparently designed, it does not mean the universe is actually designed because that cannot be known with any real confidence (it is an unfalsifiable hypothesis) nor does it mean the designer is the God of the Bible or even a deity at all.

The best argument, in my opinion, based on evidence for a "god" is the fine-tuning argument and it in no way supports only that the God of the Bible designed the Universe that way, that any deity is responsible for the fine-tuning, or that the fine-tuning is even intentional.

To think the argument for God is dependent on the need to prove evolution needed an intelligent designer would be a major fallacy. God can be proven in a myriad of ways via empirical evidence.

Secondly, the argument from incredulity, and I do not care what the wanting science body wants to argue, is a heavily and strongly reasoned argument. For anyone to think that eyeballs and brains can just happen is absurd. And yet that is what atheism argues and Richard Dawkins. No will, no intelligence, no plan, just the illusion of design. And they want to throw incredulity in our face?

Back to God. Once evidence for Him can be shown in other ways, then it stands to reason God would have had a fundamental part in creation. God of the gaps, yes, absolutely. Science is a great benefit to man and a great harm unto itself. Just because science has uncovered many answers about life and the universe in no way shape or form does should it think it has the answers to that which up until now they are in total darkness. Of course, if science and atheism were not so filled with pride and foolishness it would recognize all of the signs and wonders God has provided over history. Including life after death experiences in the thousands to give man a glimpse of life after death. Major miracles prophesied by very young children that came true on the exact day it was predicted such as at FAtima. The Virgin Mary appearing to 250,000 Egyptians over the course of 20 evenings in 1968, all forgotten by those who do not want to believe. Weeping statues with no scientific explanation. The Shroud of Turin with qualities on that cloth that would be totally impossible for some medieval forger to dream up, much less make happen. Science today cannot even duplicate those qualities. But man is too proud or man is too full of himself where he wants to have his pleasures and not be accountable to any Creator who is telling Him something He does not want to hear.

 

[edthecynic]

Just a simple fact.

You guys are not the logic queens you believe you are. Sorry: you are not very sharp,

So typical of dishonest Creationists to try to pass off Creationism as Atheism or science!

According to Creationists God is not a thing and everything comes from the nothing that is God. Whereas science has proven that energy, which is something since it can be measured, can neither be created nor destroyed, therefore there never was no energy and there never will be no energy so there never was nothing and there never will be nothing.

 

[edthecynic]

I have no trouble with atheism if its proponents are being honest.

Your OP was not honest, so why do you demand from others the honesty you lack?

 

[edthecynic]

God can be proven in a myriad of ways via empirical evidence.

Hogwash!

 

[edthecynic]

Something did not come from nothing

Well, what THING is GOD?
And if God is not a thing, then it is Creationism that believes everything came from nothing!!!!!