Atheism; An Intellectual Dead End

[ding]

Sure I do. Maybe just not you think I do. No one is asking you to have these beliefs. I believe that anyone who actively seeks to know God will ever be intellectually dead.

Pssst!

If you are not already with God and if God is not already with you, you are already dead.

Then I must certainly be alive.

Is that your way of saying that God is with you? Don't be shy.

Do you like to gamble? Stand up for the home team?

Why not call on your God for a divine demonstration of supernatural power over reality, something that bears the seal of the living God, something easy like turning water into wine?

Then, when nothing happens, I'll give it a go...

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me. It is written do not put the Lord your God to the test. Be my guest though.

Can't cop out that easy ding.

Its not about putting God to the test, its about putting you to the test. It is exactly what scripture requires.

Care to continue?

It's not a cop out. I don't believe you understand how it works.

 

[Mudda]

.
you have the deaths of innocent people as the reality of your agenda disguised as a religion.


According to you ...

that is according to bing ... the righteous 4th century inquisitor.

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever, Isaiah 40.8

Did god talk in English?

We speak in Italian.

So you don't know. Got it.

To be fair, I don't speak it very well, so don't blame Him.

So I'm going to grovel and kiss bible butt my whole life just to get somewhere where I don't understand the language and resembles Italy? No thanks, been there, it stinks.

 

[Mudda]

God as in the god of the bible who was so pooped after 6 days that he needed a day off?

Creating is so much fun that sometimes you have to force yourself to take a break from it.

Does god have a long white beard too?

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

I thought you knew all the unprovable stuff?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

You learn that in catechism?

 

[ding]

Creating is so much fun that sometimes you have to force yourself to take a break from it.

Does god have a long white beard too?

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

I thought you knew all the unprovable stuff?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

You learn that in catechism?

No. Nuns.

 

[ding]

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever, Isaiah 40.8

Did god talk in English?

We speak in Italian.

So you don't know. Got it.

To be fair, I don't speak it very well, so don't blame Him.

So I'm going to grovel and kiss bible butt my whole life just to get somewhere where I don't understand the language and resembles Italy? No thanks, been there, it stinks.

I don't care what you do. Do whatever you want.

 

[Czernobog]

I dispute the existence of a "supernatural" being. Nature is all-encompassing. As such, it is not possible for something to exist outside of everything.

Dispute all you want. I have good reason for my belief. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

Good for you. You have your beliefs. They are entirely unproven proven, but you have your beliefs. Just quit stating your beliefs as if they are facts. They aren't.

Your belief that there is no god isn't proven either. So cut it out as well.

*Sigh* I swear you are like a broken record. God does not exist is not a fact. It is a negative assertion. It is the rational presumption in the absence of objective evidence to the contrary. Nothing more, nothing less. If you, or Ding, or anyone else would like to move me off of this default null position, all they have to do is present objective evidence to the existence of God, at which I time I will say, "Based on the evidence, God exists," Until then, I will continue to maintain my rational null presumption.

You've built yourself a strawman position that your assumptions don't have to be proven. You could say that given the lack of evidence, that god has not yet been proven, but to say that there is no god period is like saying before the discovery of gravity, that there is no gravity.
Now, I'm not agnostic on every question you're going to ask, but it seem seems to me that at this point in time, it is illogical to discount an external force (at least influencing or helping) in the creation of the universe.

That was the position. It was, in fact, a hotly debated topic, at the time of Newton. "Gravity is not a thing,". That did not make it a fact. It was simply the default position of the day. Then Newton's evidence was tested, and the position was discarded.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

 

[ding]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

 

[ding]

Yes, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

 

[ding]

By your own admission it can't be proven one way or the other, so your point is moot. Besides, I do have good reason for my belief. The universe had a beginning. What started it is beyond science. What happened after it can be studied. Matter evolved from subatomic particles into beings that know and create. The universe became self aware. The potential for this existed at the beginning. It occurred as a result of the laws of nature. Those laws of nature came into existence when space and time were created. Intelligence is the pinnacle of the evolution of matter. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence. The 1st Cause is required. The attribute of the first cause must be eternal. God is just as good as an answer to the first cause as anything else.

I didn't say that it can't be proven, but rather that it hasn't been proven.

And what started the universe is only beyond science at this point in time.

And why must the attribute of the first cause be eternal? Because you say so?

No, you said it can't be proven and that's why you are agnostic.

Are you changing your mind? How exactly can a supernatural being be proven?

No, because logic says so. The only thing that doesn't need a cause is something that is eternal.

Because you can't prove something, it's eternal? That's not even logical, let alone totally made up.

And I've always said that atheists can't prove that a god is not possible. Are you drinking midweek again?

No, because the only way to break the cause and effect cycle is something that did not need a cause because it had no beginning (i.e. it was eternal).

Is midweek a new liquor?

You have always said that atheists can't prove that a god is not possible? And you accused me of drinking, lol? Re-read that and get back to me.

Your eternal being is a somewhat plausible theory, but like I've always said, you just need some proof. And because you can't find proof, it's eternal. The simpleton's circular convenience.

Of course it is plausible. It is plausible because it is logical and it explains what we have observed. There's your proof.

 

[BreezeWood]

What is that supposed to mean, "I can do all things in Christ"?

Exactly what powers does your belief give you? Concrete examples, something measurable in the real world.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

 

[ding]

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

.

Peace through storms, the power of objectivity, the power of confession, the power of forgiveness, the power of thankfulness, etc.

the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the power to understand the brutal history of the desert religions to alter their disproportionate appeal to the reality of their distorted objectives.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

 

[ding]

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

they chose a better way than yours, it is by nature they are afraid to see the full light to gain their freedom.

 

[Czernobog]

.
those who live in denial of the desert religions history of oppression are themselves the stewards of their religions history. only by educating enough people to not be entrapped by their false teachings will the injustices be resolved and the true religion be set free.

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

You get that none of those divisions of Christianity are really all that diverse, right? Christianity is Christianity. Except for Catholicism (which is really different from just about every other denomination in its dogma), all of those denominations basically "broke off" over relatively minor questions of interpretations, like "What does baptize really mean?" So, yeah, you trying to hold out those different denominations as examples of "diversity of thought" really is stretching the concept. In fact, those flavours of Christianity that are truly diverse in their thoughts - Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, for example - most of you other Christians pretty universally dismiss as cults, and not really included in "The Body of Christ". So, yeah...you guys really aren't that interested in "diversity of thought".

 

[WillReadmore]

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

You get that none of those divisions of Christianity are really all that diverse, right? Christianity is Christianity. Except for Catholicism (which is really different from just about every other denomination in its dogma), all of those denominations basically "broke off" over relatively minor questions of interpretations, like "What does baptize really mean?" So, yeah, you trying to hold out those different denominations as examples of "diversity of thought" really is stretching the concept. In fact, those flavours of Christianity that are truly diverse in their thoughts - Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, for example - most of you other Christians pretty universally dismiss as cults, and not really included in "The Body of Christ". So, yeah...you guys really aren't that interested in "diversity of thought".

The divisions are large, because Christians believe they are unforgivable, non-negotiable absolutes.

 

[ding]

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

You get that none of those divisions of Christianity are really all that diverse, right? Christianity is Christianity. Except for Catholicism (which is really different from just about every other denomination in its dogma), all of those denominations basically "broke off" over relatively minor questions of interpretations, like "What does baptize really mean?" So, yeah, you trying to hold out those different denominations as examples of "diversity of thought" really is stretching the concept. In fact, those flavours of Christianity that are truly diverse in their thoughts - Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, for example - most of you other Christians pretty universally dismiss as cults, and not really included in "The Body of Christ". So, yeah...you guys really aren't that interested in "diversity of thought".

I don't see a huge difference in any of them even Catholicism, but then again I see similarities between all major religions too. No one said diversity myst be diametrically opposed to make it diverse, Diversity is what it is. There is a distribution.

 

[ding]

What true religion would that be? Is it a secret or something?

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

D’ Souza vs. Shermer: Is Religion a Force for Good or Evil?

Letter to a cadet: How Christianity sparked Western civilization - Centennial Institute

Reasons To Believe : How Christianity Shaped Western Civilization

.

There is no denial. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good.

every denomination is a denial against the legitimacy of 4th century christianity and its history of oppression - they just need the OP as a cheerleader to take the final step. the other desert religions included.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

.

No thanks. They are my brothers too.

they left your church for good reasons, your just the last to know.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

.

I don't see it that way. Diversity of thought is a good thing. It is how nature works.

they chose a better way than yours, it is by nature they are afraid to see the full light to gain their freedom.

I am happy enough for each person to walk his or her own path. I'm not like you. I have chosen the better portion and it will not be taken away from me. What others do or don't do is up to them.