At what point the USA will launch nukes?

[AZrailwhale]

Actually, nothing is 100% guaranteed. Who knows, may be Americans have some sophisticated plan how to disable Russian C3I system by some sort of sabotage, and then eliminate significant part of Russian nukes? Of course, it's gambling, but who knows, if Russia is too provocative (like sending forces in California and Texas, or deploying IRBMs on Cuba) it will be a lesser evil. I mean, it might be better to lose 20 mlns of Americans in the war, but save rest of them.


Russia didn't lost yet. Russia still have bases in Alavitostan. And Kurds are now Turkish problem.


No. US population have a lot of light firearms, but very little of heavy equipment.


In our game, it is Chinese hand that feeds them. And there are almost 700 mln of Latinos in both Americas.

700 million, poor, nearly starving and ill armed and trained civilians who hate their governments more than they hate the USA. They all want to come here and BE Americans. You can't show any reasonable scenario in the real world where the USA and NATO are defeated so you resort to fantasy where YOU can make the rules.

 

[AZrailwhale]

1. I have no clue what clandestine operations that the CIA (or GRU) are working on. The Space Force does things we don't know about, probably/hopefully defending the US from CMPs and space based weapons. Suffice it to say that war plans sooner or later turn to garbage. Look at what happened to Putin's 3-day war as an example. Nuclear wars are to be avoided, no one can say how many would be killed, 20m is nonsense, you know how many warheads are available to both sides and allies.

RT-2PM2 Topol-M - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. No clue what "Alavitostan" is, its not in wiki or google.

3. Getting "heavy equipment" across the globe into the US is a heavy lift, even with Ukrainian Antonov heavy lift jets.

The Russians destroyed the one and only Antonov giant.

 

[AZrailwhale]

That's what I just said: "You can call it a Ukrainian Antonov if you want as long as you don't kid yourself". It is not a Ukrainian airplane.

Antonov is a UKRANIAN company. It's one of the reasons Russian aviation declined so rapidly after the breakup of the USSR.

 

[GLASNOST]

You are insane.

Insane how? Because I post the truth?

Yeah sure, that's it.

 

[The Duke]

And when is the perfect time? "When yesterday was too early, and tomorrow will be too late"?
If you use nukes too early against non-nuclear enemy - it means the end of non-proliferation treaty, and the little privileged nuclear club becomes not that little and not that privileged.
If you use nukes too late against a nuclear state (and not against its nuclear forces) - it will be able to retaliate and kill millions of your citizens.

Am I correct?

No. Because we will hunt you all down and kill you to the last man personally.
That's the fucking factor you fucking forgot or never knew.
STFU.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Ukraine attacked DPR and LPR, allies of Russian Federation. It is equal to direct attack against Russian Federation itself.


Of course, only Russian opinion matters.


F#ck the world. And no, NATO is not the whole world. Actually, world's majority is supporting Russia.


It never fought a defensive war. And Ukraine is not a part of it (at least formally).


Yes. The war will continue until all Ukrainian (European) nazies are eliminated and NATO returned at least to 1997 borders.




Its Russian understanding of the term.

Thats the point where your facilitation becomes participation.


NATO countries attacked Russia, therefore Russia [deniably] attacked NATO countries.


Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Kosovo is occupied by NATO countries.



Ukraine (backed by NATO) attacked Russia.

WWIII may be a lesser evil.


And you didn't know the word "taiga"? Where are you from?


A kind of a manager. Why?



I'm as far from nationalism as it possible.


Forget it. As I said - no more rules.

Here is the UN vote against Russiaan invasion if Ukraine:

Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea, Mali, Russia and Syria were the only members of the UN to support the Russian invasion. China didn't even support it.

 

[kyzr]

mid-level manager song

Here is a Russian song, the title is apparently "A Cuckoo", she sings beautifully...no clue what she is saying.

 

[Zavulon]

I call BULLSHIT !!

UN General Assembly demands Russian Federation withdraw all military forces from the territory of Ukraine

On 2 March, the UN General Assembly adopted — by an overwhelming majority of 141 against 5 — a resolution rejecting the Russian Federation's brutal invasion of Ukraine and demanding that Russia immediately withdraw its forces and abide by international law. The resolution was prepared by the...

www.eeas.europa.eu

UN General Assembly demands Russian Federation withdraw all military forces from the territory of Ukraine

the UN General Assembly adopted — by an overwhelming majority of 141 against 5 — a resolution rejecting the Russian Federation's brutal invasion of Ukraine and demanding that Russia immediately withdraw its forces and abide by international law.

It's not about how they vote. It's about how many of them continue business and how many are actually ready to die in the vain attempt to defend Kievan regime.

Are you ready to die to defend the right of Kievan regime discriminate, abuse and genocide Russian part of their population?

 

[22lcidw]

The Progressive Communist liar as press secretary needs to be put into a slave labor camp and then used as a whore during the off hours. Murderers they are.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It's not about how they vote. It's about how many of them continue business and how many are actually ready to die in the vain attempt to defend Kievan regime.

Are you ready to die to defend the right of Kievan regime discriminate, abuse and genocide Russian part of their population?

It's EXACATLY how they voted. Ninety five percent of the countries of the UN DEMANDED that Russia cease its invasion and evacuate to the pre-Russian Federation borders of Ukraine. A handful of countries continue to trade with Russia but only on terms that benefit them and harm Russia.

 

[Zavulon]

700 million, poor, nearly starving and ill armed and trained civilians who hate their governments more than they hate the USA. They all want to come here and BE Americans. You can't show any reasonable scenario in the real world where the USA and NATO are defeated so you resort to fantasy where YOU can make the rules.

I don't tell you about "real world" (not even about CNN-verse). It's alternative history. You know, like China make deal with the USSR, not USA in 1970s. In 1980s and 1990s - America suffered Greater Depression. NATO finished its existence in 1985. There were no Islamic terrorism and Soviet invasion in Afghanistan. But there is a Roman Catholic extremism and a lot of Neo-Paganic Cults in South America. In 1999 Soviet Union invaded the debries of former United Kingdom and supported independence of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and some other territories. In 2003 China invaded Venezuela. The global currency is Chinese Yuan, and America is relatively poor. It has its positive and negative sides, of course. Positive side is that you are not that attractive to legal or illegal migrants or drug-dealers. You have no a lot of lawyers, prostitutes, welfare-earners and other parasites. You can't just print money and buy whatever you want. US population is only 200 mln, but 84% of them are more or less hard-working Rednecks and 70% are Republicans. Trump is the President since 2000 (after fall of England you do understand that the war with Russia is inevitable and you need a "strong hand"). You don't think that nukes is a "dangerous relic of the Cold War". You do realise that it is the only thing that stays between you and the fate of England.

In this alternative reality there are 800 mln of Latinoamericans. Most if they quite radicalised. Some of them cosplay old Inks and Maya's Empires (including demonstrative human sacrifices with cutting the hearts of "infidels"), some - play Catholic Crusaders (and burn Protestans alive), many of them are radical communists (and shoot Capitalists in their heads), some - just hate Gringo's and want to kill you and take your property. You just call them all "Indians" for simplification.

So, in this hypothetical reality they are numerous (four times more numerous than you), they are well equipped (coz they are backed by China and Russia) and highly motivated. They want to kill you all, and, if you are not ready to use nukes - they'll do it, because borders of 1820 is just the first step in their planned "decolonisation" of North America.

 

[Zavulon]

It's EXACATLY how they voted. Ninety five percent of the countries of the UN DEMANDED that Russia cease its invasion and evacuate to the pre-Russian Federation borders of Ukraine. A handful of countries continue to trade with Russia but only on terms that benefit them and harm Russia.

Words are cheap. Voting in UN is even cheaper. And our trade still allow us to produce more tanks in a month than all NATO countries combined produce in a year.

Anyway, we simply don't care. We are going to defend Russian people, whatever it takes, with, or without our dear trade parthners.

 

[ESay]

Here is a Russian song, the title is apparently "A Cuckoo", she sings beautifully...no clue what she is saying.

A Cuckoo is a song of Victor Zoi, the leader of a rock-band Kino. Who was very prominent in the late 1980-s, and is quite popular even now.



There are a number of interpretations about what this song means (that is true maybe for anyone of Zoi's songs). For me, this song is about a person who has his own way and 'stands his ground' dealing with the system.

The Gagarina's performance with this song was used by Russian propaganda to raise Russian nationalistic sentiments at the time of the Donbas war and to gain support for the Putin regime. In other words, the goal was quite opposite to the initial meaning of the song.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Words are cheap. Voting in UN is even cheaper. And our trade still allow us to produce more tanks in a month than all NATO countries combined produce in a year.

Anyway, we simply don't care. We are going to defend Russian people, whatever it takes, with, or without our dear trade parthners.

Russia is actually producing a handful of new tanks, about two hundred and forty a year. Everything else is refurbed obsolete tanks or rehabbed battlefield casualties. And Russia is operating under wartime conditions. Russia can't build the modern electronics for modern tanks, so the T-90s are the "chimp models" with very reduced capabilities that it used to export that weren't even as "good" as standard Russian tanks. Read the following article.

Let's separate russian real production capacities from with the declared statistics with signs of cherry-picking manipulations​

Sergey Chemezov, the Head of the russian Rostec state arms corporation, announced that in 2023, the russian defense industry increased tank production sevenfold, according to news media, controlled by the russian government.
Based on these claims, russian military "expert" Viktor Murakhovsky calculated that the country's defense industry supplied the russian army with a staggering 2,100 tanks of various types in 2023, ranging from T-54/55 and T-62 to the latest T-90M Proryv.

Read more: russian Troops are Actively Preparing to Advance on the Eastern Front, Constantly Conducting Assault Actions

Production of tanks at Uralvagonzavod / Open source illustrative photo
The leap in rates of production comes unexpected, since the earlier open data suggested that russians could make only about 200 new tanks per year, namely those of the T-90M Proryv type.
A closer look at the data provided by Murakhovsky reveals the following:

• the russian army received 210 new tanks in 2023, compared to only 30 units in 2020;
• the number of T-72B3s delivered to the russian army in 2023 is 840 vehicles, compared to 120 units in 2020;
• also, the "taken from storage" category amounts to 840 vehicles, including T-80, T-72, T-62, and T-55/54 tank types.

However, when cross-referencing these calculations with other sources, a different picture emerges. The Swedish research institute FOI, in its report on the military potential of russia after 1.5 years of war against Ukraine, estimates a much smaller annual tank production of around 520 new vehicles per year:

• 62 tanks, type T-90M Proryv, and 62 more of types T-90/T-90A;
• 80 tanks, type T-80BVM;
• 140 tanks, type T-72B3, and 140 more of T-72B3M modification.

The potential of the russian federation to restore its armored potential in the conditions of the war against Ukraine / Source: Swedish Defence Research Agency (FOI)
Worth noting, those are the most "pessimistic" estimates taking into account that there might be up to 2,000 tanks of type T-64 in various modifications, and up to 2,800 tanks of T-55/54 types.
Another factor that the FOI report considers is that by February 2024, the russian army could still have at least 2.5 to 3 thousand tanks in service, even considering current losses in Ukraine.

The potential of the russian federation to restore its armored potential in the conditions of the war against Ukraine / Source: Swedish Defence Research Agency (FOI)
The conclusion here is that the figure of 2,100 tanks claimed by Chemezov and Murakhovsky may include literally all of the tanks, even those taken out of storage and minimally refurbished at armor repair plants.
This could potentially explain the perceived "inefficiency" which is evident in the actions of the russian invasion forces in terms of equipment losses they suffer in repeated assaults on Ukrainian positions. The russian military leadership might believe they have an unlimited supply of tanks in storage and can easily replace any losses.

 

[Zavulon]

Russia is actually producing a handful of new tanks, about two hundred and forty a year. Everything else is refurbed obsolete tanks or rehabbed battlefield casualties. And Russia is operating under wartime conditions. Russia can't build the modern electronics for modern tanks, so the T-90s are the "chimp models" with very reduced capabilities that it used to export that weren't even as "good" as standard Russian tanks. Read the following article.

Let's separate russian real production capacities from with the declared statistics with signs of cherry-picking manipulations​

Sergey Chemezov, the Head of the russian Rostec state arms corporation, announced that in 2023, the russian defense industry increased tank production sevenfold, according to news media, controlled by the russian government.
Based on these claims, russian military "expert" Viktor Murakhovsky calculated that the country's defense industry supplied the russian army with a staggering 2,100 tanks of various types in 2023, ranging from T-54/55 and T-62 to the latest T-90M Proryv.

Production of tanks at Uralvagonzavod / Open source illustrative photo
The leap in rates of production comes unexpected, since the earlier open data suggested that russians could make only about 200 new tanks per year, namely those of the T-90M Proryv type.
A closer look at the data provided by Murakhovsky reveals the following:

• the russian army received 210 new tanks in 2023, compared to only 30 units in 2020;
• the number of T-72B3s delivered to the russian army in 2023 is 840 vehicles, compared to 120 units in 2020;
• also, the "taken from storage" category amounts to 840 vehicles, including T-80, T-72, T-62, and T-55/54 tank types.

However, when cross-referencing these calculations with other sources, a different picture emerges. The Swedish research institute FOI, in its report on the military potential of russia after 1.5 years of war against Ukraine, estimates a much smaller annual tank production of around 520 new vehicles per year:

• 62 tanks, type T-90M Proryv, and 62 more of types T-90/T-90A;
• 80 tanks, type T-80BVM;
• 140 tanks, type T-72B3, and 140 more of T-72B3M modification.

The potential of the russian federation to restore its armored potential in the conditions of the war against Ukraine / Source: Swedish Defence Research Agency (FOI)
Worth noting, those are the most "pessimistic" estimates taking into account that there might be up to 2,000 tanks of type T-64 in various modifications, and up to 2,800 tanks of T-55/54 types.
Another factor that the FOI report considers is that by February 2024, the russian army could still have at least 2.5 to 3 thousand tanks in service, even considering current losses in Ukraine.

The potential of the russian federation to restore its armored potential in the conditions of the war against Ukraine / Source: Swedish Defence Research Agency (FOI)
The conclusion here is that the figure of 2,100 tanks claimed by Chemezov and Murakhovsky may include literally all of the tanks, even those taken out of storage and minimally refurbished at armor repair plants.
This could potentially explain the perceived "inefficiency" which is evident in the actions of the russian invasion forces in terms of equipment losses they suffer in repeated assaults on Ukrainian positions. The russian military leadership might believe they have an unlimited supply of tanks in storage and can easily replace any losses.

But NATO countries don't produce new, from scratch, tanks at all. And even number of restored tanks is pretty limited? How many tanks did the USA made in 2024? Twenty, thirty?
That's the difference in the real economy.
When it comes to a war it doesn't really matter how many lawyers, prostitutes or welfare-earners economy can support. Actual production of weapons and equipment is what really matters.

 

[AZrailwhale]

But NATO countries don't produce new, from scratch, tanks at all. And even number of restored tanks is pretty limited? How many tanks did the USA made in 2024? Twenty, thirty?
That's the difference in the real economy.
When it comes to a war it doesn't really matter how many lawyers, prostitutes or welfare-earners economy can support. Actual production of weapons and equipment is what really matters.

And Russia can’t produce a single modern tank that can compare to any current generation western tank,

 

[luiza]

But NATO countries don't produce new, from scratch, tanks at all. And even number of restored tanks is pretty limited? How many tanks did the USA made in 2024? Twenty, thirty?
That's the difference in the real economy.
When it comes to a war it doesn't really matter how many lawyers, prostitutes or welfare-earners economy can support. Actual production of weapons and equipment is what really matters.

In case you need reminding / informing about .
These stumbling critics are old men who still think and behave in Soviet - US Cold War terms .
Truth be told, they are badly informed , haven't travelled to east Europe , let alone the Federation , and probably have no experience of high level business, either private or military/intelligence associated .
They are not types that you would ever choose to associate with outside a Chat Site and my short hand label for them is the Silly Hilly Billy Boys .

They chatter like old ,lonely people and are unsurprisingly what you mainly find on Chat sites. Their Cognitive Rigidity is around the 100% mark, so it really is a waste of time and effort trying to change their perceptions of the world .

 

[Zavulon]

And Russia can’t produce a single modern tank that can compare to any current generation western tank,

Actually, even modernized T-64 are better than all that obsolete crap NATO had utilized in Ukraine.

 

[Zavulon]

In case you need reminding / informing about .
These stumbling critics are old men who still think and behave in Soviet - US Cold War terms .
Truth be told, they are badly informed , haven't travelled to east Europe , let alone the Federation , and probably have no experience of high level business, either private or military/intelligence associated .
They are not types that you would ever choose to associate with outside a Chat Site and my short hand label for them is the Silly Hilly Billy Boys .

They chatter like old ,lonely people and are unsurprisingly what you mainly find on Chat sites. Their Cognitive Rigidity is around the 100% mark, so it really is a waste of time and effort trying to change their perceptions of the world .

May be. May be not. Anyway, what are we losing, exept some time?

 

[luiza]

May be. May be not. Anyway, what are we losing, exept some time?

Very un-Russian .
OK ,if you are relaxed about it, but why are you so polite to the half wits ?

BTW, I had a friendly wager over ten years ago that Nikolai Patrushev would succeed Uncle Pooty at the appropriate time . Any opinion ? Is he now too old ?