At this point, we know the differences are irreconcilable between libs and conservatives

[Ray From Cleveland]

Since you know something about this, what's to Russia from selling to other oil countries at less than market and then they ship to the US.

I don't know if I understand your question correctly. Why would another country buy oil only to sell to us at no profit? Russia can sell to whoever they desire and we can't stop that, but it seems a lot of countries are cutting down on their interactions with the country. Outside of China, who wants to deal with the tyrant?

 

[Flopper]

No, it just furthers my point we have too many stupid people voting and that's why you should have to take a very simple test, perhaps between 10 and 20 questions before being allowed to vote. You must pass the test by at least 80% or you don't get to vote that year.. The fact of the matter is many people who vote don't even know WTF they're voting on.

The Democrat party performed two impeachments without an impeachable offense. They are holding people in jail, some in solitary confinement for over a year for trespassing and not giving them the ability to see a judge or pay bail. They are telling people they must get a shot, or lose their job and not even allowed to collect unemployment; take the shot or you and your family can die of starvation. They were forcing people to buy a medical plan they didn't want or need. The current President used our federal agencies to get warrants to search the homes of people he thought may have his daughters stolen diary, like they were his own private security force. But these people are not Communists or Nazi's, right?

What you are proposing is epistocracy. While democracies give every citizen an equal right to vote, epistocracies apportion political power, by law, according to knowledge or competence.

One of the problems with epistocracy is determining who has knowledge needed to vote on an issue or candidate because ever candidate is different and every issue is different and every voter is different. You propose to have 20 simple questions that qualify a person to vote for what? A president. There is probably nothing we vote on more complex than determining who should be president because there are so many issues to understand to be qualified. To really qualify a person to vote for president, you would disenfranchise most voters.

Aside from determining who is worthy of the vote, there is an even more serious issue. People who have no say in who and how they are governed feel no obligation to support their rulers nor their laws. And when government forces them to obey those laws pay taxes to support that government, they rebellion as when this nation was formed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Times were hard in Canada too during the periods of time being suggested.

But Canada had at least a social security net that kept people alive at least. My parents saw that as a good thing.

Canada has long since emerged above those times but far too many Americans haven't. Maybe we can acknowledge that at least.

I'm hearing a lot about how many Americans are lazy and only want to rely on government handouts. I'm accepting that is true. There has to be some reason for America's dismal statistics.

There is actually, it's called vote buying. Look at Dementia. He increased food stamps to the highest level it's ever been increased since the program started. This encourages people to stay on the program as long as possible. He also increased the child tax credit encouraging women to stay home with their kids.

I'll offer a true story here: I had an unmarried couple I was renting an apartment to. They had two children, two dogs and a few cats. When they started to get behind on rent I called them over to my apartment to discuss the problem.

He was hell bent on not working one hour over 40 per week. She stayed home supposedly to home school the kids even though she was as dumb as F herself. So I suggested that while he's home on the weekends, he could watch the kids and she could go out to get a part-time job somewhere like Walmart. They would have nothing to do with it. She got $280.00 in food stamps because as far as the government was concerned, she's a single mother with two children and no income.

Long story short I had to evict them. Afterwards I sued him in court for back rent and some minor damages plus moving their crap out of the apartment they didn't take with them. So they lost a really good rent because government was basically paying her not to work. I had his wages garnished for over a year to recover my losses.

 

[Flopper]

I don't know if I understand your question correctly. Why would another country buy oil only to sell to us at no profit? Russia can sell to whoever they desire and we can't stop that, but it seems a lot of countries are cutting down on their interactions with the country. Outside of China, who wants to deal with the tyrant?

For example. The price of oil, ignoring transportation cost is $100 a barrel. Russia sells oil to companies in a number of oil rich countries such in the Middle East for say $85 a barrel who turn around and sell it to US companies for $100 a barrel. Russia escapes the US embargo against their oil for $15 a barrel loss. The Russian oil get to US through a different route. In other words it's black market oil.

 

[Foolardi]

After just a little over one year we are living the reality of a completely failed president and his party. Whatever could go wrong has gone wrong and continues to go worse and there is no sign of it letting up. Still, while one side is saying - See? Just look around and listen to our president try and talk!, the other side is finding ways to defend this shit show. If the media was even a little bit honest, some of these people would realize how bad it is, but I think most would still cling to some alternate lib reality any way they could.

I realize the answer is sometimes ... Ok What do we { as Americans } DO ABOUT IT ?
Obviously tolerating this kind of Unamericanism and driven lies is making things
worse.Using middle of the road device like waiting for Elections can be very
manipulating.Relying on the Press to act like concerned citizens is now almost
a forgone conclusion.They Won't.They Can't.They are too intricately involved.
Plus they may not have it in them.They have been effectively bought and
had their psyches twisted.A form of Brainwashing.
Playing nice does not work.Following orders only emboldens the bullies.
Exposing the legion of lies and unamerican attitudes is The Best Offer.
But in that Movie - The Best Offer - { 2013 } a riveting,well-acted movie,
things end up topsy-turvy.From the charms in the Art world of Romanticism to
the sheer evils of conniving and theft that would have a healthy Alfred Hitchcock
scratch his head.

 

[Lisa558]

There is actually, it's called vote buying. Look at Dementia. He increased food stamps to the highest level it's ever been increased since the program started. This encourages people to stay on the program as long as possible. He also increased the child tax credit encouraging women to stay home with their kids.

I'll offer a true story here: I had an unmarried couple I was renting an apartment to. They had two children, two dogs and a few cats. When they started to get behind on rent I called them over to my apartment to discuss the problem.

He was hell bent on not working one hour over 40 per week. She stayed home supposedly to home school the kids even though she was as dumb as F herself. So I suggested that while he's home on the weekends, he could watch the kids and she could go out to get a part-time job somewhere like Walmart. They would have nothing to do with it. She got $280.00 in food stamps because as far as the government was concerned, she's a single mother with two children and no income.

Long story short I had to evict them. Afterwards I sued him in court for back rent and some minor damages plus moving their crap out of the apartment they didn't take with them. So they lost a really good rent because government was basically paying her not to work. I had his wages garnished for over a year to recover my losses.

Omg. I know a young woman in the identical situation - right down to the pets and the home-schooling! She also refuses to work weekends. But they get food stamps, subsidized rent, Medicaid, and a “tax credit” even though she pays no tax.

 

[Burgermeister]

What you are proposing is epistocracy. While democracies give every citizen an equal right to vote, epistocracies apportion political power, by law, according to knowledge or competence.

One of the problems with aristocracy is determining who has knowledge needed to vote on an issue or candidate because ever candidate is different and every issue is different and every voter is different. You propose to have 20 simple questions that qualify a person to vote for what? A president. There is probably nothing we vote on more complex than determining who should be president because there are so many issues to understand to be qualified. To really qualify a person to vote for president, you would disenfranchise most voters.

Aside from determining who is worthy of the vote, there is an even more serious issue. People who have no say in who and how they are governed feel no obligation to support their rulers nor their laws. And when government forces them to obey those laws pay taxes to support that government, they rebellion as when this nation was formed.

Epistocracy sounds good in theory but in practice we'd end up with a Department of Voter Competence dominated by the left and it would end up making things worse.

 

[Flopper]

Me either. Ever since I've been out of work I fill up about once every month and a half, and my Toyota Camry gets fantastic mileage plus I usually only put in about 12 to 13 gallons per fill up. However other people have to get to work, tend to children, and use a hell of a lot more than I do.

We are both correct here. Russia would be paying the price if we stopped all Russian imports, however I am right when I say we could replace that oil with US oil and help bring the price down for everybody across the globe including us.

Third option: The US moves to a four day work week. Everybody who works 5 days a week will work 4 ten hour days instead. That's one less day and afternoon of rush hour, schools would be closed on Monday or Friday, working people would have a three day weekend every week, most all government facilities closed that day. It would save families money and lower our consumption thus bringing down the price. It's a win-win. For people who work six days a week, the same for them. They get cut back to 10 hour five days a week. And......it won't cost anybody a dime. The best part is it would make the enviro-kooks happy as all hell.

Your proposals would make sense it this is an extended period of high oil prices.

From my experience leasing mineral rights over the years, I have never seen an oil well that does not pump as much oil as circumstances allow. You can't just pump as much oil as want out of well. Geological factors such oil pressure and the geological formation determines how much oil you take out in a day. Plus there are storage tank capacities, transportation issues, and most states have limits on how much oil can be taken per day. The bottom line is you don't change this overnight nor do you increase the number producing wells. It takes time, months and years. Going to a 4 day work can reduce oil consumption but that doesn't happen overnight. It probably has less effect today because so many people work from home or they are already working 4 day weeks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you are proposing is epistocracy. While democracies give every citizen an equal right to vote, epistocracies apportion political power, by law, according to knowledge or competence.

One of the problems with aristocracy is determining who has knowledge needed to vote on an issue or candidate because ever candidate is different and every issue is different and every voter is different. You propose to have 20 simple questions that qualify a person to vote for what? A president. There is probably nothing we vote on more complex than determining who should be president because there are so many issues to understand to be qualified. To really qualify a person to vote for president, you would disenfranchise most voters.

Aside from determining who is worthy of the vote, there is an even more serious issue. People who have no say in who and how they are governed feel no obligation to support their rulers nor their laws. And when government forces them to obey those laws pay taxes to support that government, they rebellion as when this nation was formed.

Let me ask you, do you think our current voting system is any less fair? I mean, let's say we all got to vote whether or not we take Flopper's money on USMB, would you call that fair if we could?

Of course not. You would be the minority of course and have no control over your very own money. That's what we have today in our voting system, we have people voting money out of other people's pockets, some not even born yet.

That's one thing, but the other are the ignorant voters. We seen the videos of the Obama money or Obama phone people. It not only reveals the ignorance of our electorate, but supports my point of voting for other people's money to give to them.

As far as a test is concerned, it would be totally unbiased and non-partisan. No questions about Democrat or Republican issues, just to insure people have the very least understanding of our government to vote. Some sample questions would be: Who is the Speaker of the House? What party do they represent? Who is the Vice President? What party does he represent? Is the United States in debt? If so, by how much?

These are basic things people need to know in order to properly vote. It can be multiple choice with five possible answers, and none of the questions directed at any particular party or issue.

Would you object to that? Of course you would. Why? Because the Democrat party has the ignorant voter base secure; people with the extent of political knowledge Republicans are for the rich people and Democrats for the poor and working. Even though untruthful, that's all they understand about this country and I think we would do much better in our government by weeding those people out so they can't vote.

 

[Flopper]

I spend that a week, and the extra $80 a month is still OK with me. But that amount, added to the Biden inflation at the grocery store, has created hardship for those in the lower and lower-middle brackets.

Perhaps now would be a good time to cut some pork from our government spending and temporarily lower taxes. The amount of waste in government is beyond atrocious.

My experience with cutting government spending and lower taxes is we lower taxes today and cut government spending tomorrow which becomes next year, and then next year. By then party control has change, priorities has changed and no one remembers the promise to cut spending.

 

[Foolardi]

Epistocracy sounds good in theory but in practice we'd end up with a Department of Voter Competence dominated by the left and it would end up making things worse.

I'm not very famaliar with this Epistocracy term or concept.
But it's as clear as the eye can see that what Masters of Talk Radio
Like Rushbo Limbaugh kept preaching was spot-on.
His use and originating the term - Low Information Voter - referring
specifically as not to overtly offend as Obama Voters.Stereotypically from the
Poorer black neighborhoods.The ones that Black Liar and Bigot Joe Madison
try to influence.With aggravated use of propaganda and CRT.
Plus his Moniker - The Black Eagle -.
More like an Evil Black Crow.Who talks { crows incessantly }
Always wrong or half wrong and trying like the dickens to make sure
Blacks hold the thin black line of Big Brother Dependence.
But Blacks are being overtaken by Hispanics as the New Minority majority.

 

[Foolardi]

Your proposals would make sense it this is an extended period of high oil prices.

From my experience leasing mineral rights over the years, I have never seen an oil well that does not pump as much oil as circumstances allow. You can't just pump as much oil as want out of well. Geological factors such oil pressure and the geological formation determines how much oil you take out in a day. Plus there are storage tank capacities, transportation issues, and most states have limits on how much oil can be taken per day. The bottom line is you don't change this overnight nor do you increase the number producing wells. It takes time, months and years. Going to a 4 day work can reduce oil consumption but that doesn't happen overnight. It probably has less effect today because so many people work from home or they are already working 4 day weeks.

Maybe.But years ago { many movies about } Drilling for Oil was a real
chore and gamble.Not nearly the same as today.Oil is much easier located
due to high tech devices and machinery.
Plus Fracking.Less Trucking.Less back braking hours on some oil rig.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your proposals would make sense it this is an extended period of high oil prices.

From my experience leasing mineral rights over the years, I have never seen an oil well that does not pump as much oil as circumstances allow. You can't just pump as much oil as want out of well. Geological factors such oil pressure and the geological formation determines how much oil you take out in a day. Plus there are storage tank capacities, transportation issues, and most states have limits on how much oil can be taken per day. The bottom line is you don't change this overnight nor do you increase the number producing wells. It takes time, months and years. Going to a 4 day work can reduce oil consumption but that doesn't happen overnight. It probably has less effect today because so many people work from home or they are already working 4 day weeks.

Converting the country to a four day work week would take less than a month. Start with government including schools. Parents would need to be home with their kids on that one extra day off. Then offer companies a minor tax incentive for participating in this change. You would have a lot of support from the middle-class blue collar workers, government workers, environmentalists, and there would be few in opposition with the exception of those who really enjoy working.

I went past my gas station again today. It's over $4.09 a gallon now and predicted to go higher. This was just on the word of Dementia who stated we will no longer be importing Russian oil. This will take a week or so to actually do, but look at how the market responded nearly the minute Biden made this announcement. That's how this market works.

 

[Lisa558]

We can’t actually have an intelligence or knowledge test to vote, but we accomplish something similar by requiring in-person voting (in addition to protecting the integrity of the vote). Particularly in cities, where polling places are fairly close, the only reasons that someone does not bother to get themselves to the polls are either incompetence or disinterest in politics. People with these qualities do more harm than good if someone comes to their door to harvest their ballot.

 

[Flopper]

Let me ask you, do you think our current voting system is any less fair? I mean, let's say we all got to vote whether or not we take Flopper's money on USMB, would you call that fair if we could?

Of course not. You would be the minority of course and have no control over your very own money. That's what we have today in our voting system, we have people voting money out of other people's pockets, some not even born yet.

That's one thing, but the other are the ignorant voters. We seen the videos of the Obama money or Obama phone people. It not only reveals the ignorance of our electorate, but supports my point of voting for other people's money to give to them.

As far as a test is concerned, it would be totally unbiased and non-partisan. No questions about Democrat or Republican issues, just to insure people have the very least understanding of our government to vote. Some sample questions would be: Who is the Speaker of the House? What party do they represent? Who is the Vice President? What party does he represent? Is the United States in debt? If so, by how much?

These are basic things people need to know in order to properly vote. It can be multiple choice with five possible answers, and none of the questions directed at any particular party or issue.

Would you object to that? Of course you would. Why? Because the Democrat party has the ignorant voter base secure; people with the extent of political knowledge Republicans are for the rich people and Democrats for the poor and working. Even though untruthful, that's all they understand about this country and I think we would do much better in our government by weeding those people out so they can't vote.

There is no guarantee that your system would eliminate the voters you want to eliminate. In fact your whole idea that eliminating these less intelligent voters would somehow shift government policy, I don't believe is valid. Stupidity knows no party lines nor is it concentrated in any economic segment. A very simple test as you proposed would probably only eliminated those who would not be voting.

 

[Flopper]

Converting the country to a four day work week would take less than a month. Start with government including schools. Parents would need to be home with their kids on that one extra day off. Then offer companies a minor tax incentive for participating in this change. You would have a lot of support from the middle-class blue collar workers, government workers, environmentalists, and there would be few in opposition with the exception of those who really enjoy working.

I went past my gas station again today. It's over $4.09 a gallon now and predicted to go higher. This was just on the word of Dementia who stated we will no longer be importing Russian oil. This will take a week or so to actually do, but look at how the market responded nearly the minute Biden made this announcement. That's how this market works.

If Biden ordered a 4 day work, 15 republicans states would claim it was unconstitutional and would block it and congress would debate the issue for at least 3 months. By the time it was implemented the war would be over and possibly the oil embargo.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is no guarantee that your system would eliminate the voters you want to eliminate. In fact your whole idea that eliminating these less intelligent voters would somehow shift government policy, I don't believe is valid. Stupidity knows no party lines nor is it concentrated in any economic segment. A very simple test as you proposed would probably only eliminated those who would not be voting.

I don't want to get in a partisan debate with you, but how do you suppose Biden got to be President; not only President, but by a record amount of voters?

Sure, Democrats will always support the Democrat candidate and Republicans the same. But let's face facts here, the guy has been in federal government most of his adult life and never accomplished much. While running for President, his son was under an FBI investigation for matters he was involved in. He campaigned out of his basement in fear. He's been wrong on every international issue he's made. He's responsible for making his family rich off his positions in government. And yet he beat a guy who gave us the best economy in 50 years, greatly slowed down illegal crossings into the country, lowered taxes on most working Americans? I mean, come on now.

Everybody here is a political junkie, but the fact of the matter is most Americans are not. They do other things for entertainment like music, sports, movies. I don't have to tell you the study of politics and country is very time consuming, time many who vote are not willing to spare.

 

[Flopper]

I'm not very famaliar with this Epistocracy term or concept.
But it's as clear as the eye can see that what Masters of Talk Radio
Like Rushbo Limbaugh kept preaching was spot-on.
His use and originating the term - Low Information Voter - referring
specifically as not to overtly offend as Obama Voters.Stereotypically from the
Poorer black neighborhoods.The ones that Black Liar and Bigot Joe Madison
try to influence.With aggravated use of propaganda and CRT.
Plus his Moniker - The Black Eagle -.
More like an Evil Black Crow.Who talks { crows incessantly }
Always wrong or half wrong and trying like the dickens to make sure
Blacks hold the thin black line of Big Brother Dependence.
But Blacks are being overtaken by Hispanics as the New Minority majority.

Low information voters are not necessary black. In fact I would say most are not since Blacks are in the minority in the country. Most of those that really low information voters don't vote. Here's the low information voters I know and they are all white middle class, my granddaughter whose graduating this year in nursing who pays no attention to politics at all. I doubt she knows the name of the governor. My neighbor who teaches philosophy at local college. My wife's best friend who teaches kindergarten. She was voting for Biden because she didn't want Trump to be president again. My maid is Black/Hispanic and I would bet she would pass any voter test given.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Low information voters are not necessary black. In fact I would say most are not since Blacks are in the minority in the country. Most of those that really low information voters don't vote. Here's the low information voters I know and they are all white middle class, my granddaughter whose graduating this year in nursing who pays no attention to politics at all. I doubt she knows the name of the governor. My neighbor who teaches philosophy at local college. My wife's best friend who teaches kindergarten. She was voting for Biden because she didn't want Trump to be president again. My maid is Black/Hispanic and I would bet she would pass any voter test given.

I believe every word you say. That's why when I made the suggestion, I clearly stated it was not an education thing, but an interest thing.

Much of my landlord years my father greatly helped me out, especially after he retired at the age of 62. Yes, he needed a project to keep him busy, but him doing things helped me greatly because my father has built houses from the ground up. He knew the answers to questions I would have had doing those projects myself. I'm just a high school graduate, but my father dropped out in 9th grade to help support his family.

it wouldn't surprise me the least if I learned that some high school dropouts knew more about politics and issues than college graduates.

 

[Rigby5]

Putin invades Ukraine....rightwingers respond by blaming United States government.

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots? Did Putin's trolls get into all of your facebook feeds? What the hell is going on?

No I am far more left of you, and Putin is the good guy in this particular situation.
The Donetsk, Crimea, etc., do not really belong to the Ukraine, but Khrushchev gave them to the Ukraine in some secret deal in 1955, that never made sense or was a good fit. They speak different languages even.
The Ukraine is also far more corrupt then even Russia, stealing oil, trying to get NATO nukes, etc.