As the rest of Europe lives under lockdown, Sweden keeps calm and carries on

[Sun Devil 92]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

Much of the USA is fine and is winning.

Sooner or later, the virus will come into contact with all of us.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Sweden is at 81 today.

They are now 12th in mortality rate.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

In rereading your post, I have to ask....

WTF are you babbling about.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Sweden is 28th in cases per million population.

U.S.A. and other lockdown countries are way farther up on the list.

And all you pricks can say is "We don't want to be like Sweden".

You like having lots of COVID-19 cases ?

Who knew.

 

[skye]

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

 

[zaangalewa]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

Much of the USA is fine and is winning.

Optimism is a nice thing - if optimism is correlated to reality and not to senseless empty phrases.

Sooner or later, the virus will come into contact with all of us.

The virus will under no circumstances come in contact with all of us. The solvable problem is only not to let it come in contact with people, who will die on covid-19. Soon (best case in a few month - worst case in some years) will exist one or more good vaccines and one or more special medicaments against the Corona-2 virus. But you prefer to surrender? Why? And what's your price in this game? 30 silver coins?

 

[zaangalewa]

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

 

[zaangalewa]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

In rereading your post, I have to ask....

WTF are you babbling about.

About something what you do not [like to] understand?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You seem to make a lot of shit up to argue against.

From the start, I've said the vu

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

Seems to be just wrong.

According to who ? You ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

Much of the USA is fine and is winning.

Optimism is a nice thing - if optimism is correlated to reality and not to senseless empty phrases.

Sooner or later, the virus will come into contact with all of us.

The virus will under no circumstances come in contact with all of us. The solvable problem is only not to let it come in contact with people, who will die on covid-19. Soon (best case in a few month - worst case in some years) will exist one or more good vaccines and one or more special medicaments against the Corona-2 virus. But you prefer to surrender? Why? And what's your price in this game? 30 silver coins?

Surrender ?

Who are you ? And what are you talking about ?

Unless you can make a case that makes any sense, I'll start bypassing your blathering bullshit.

I have always advocated for protection of the vulnerable. The lockdown did nothing to focus on them.

We know who they are. The rest of us will be exposed in the course of time. And the lockdown strategy acknowldeges that....it was an effort to keep from overwhelming medical facilities.

 

[zaangalewa]

You seem to make a lot of shit up to argue against.

From the start, I've said the vu

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

Seems to be just wrong.

According to who ? You ?

no comment

 

[zaangalewa]

Sweden is at 2 deaths today.

See if it holds up.

Holland at 77

Belgium at 168

How's that lockdown working out for them ?

I do not count single days - this makes not a big sense.

Sweden 22 deaths per 100k
Netherlands 26 deaths per 100k
Belgium 61 deaths per 100k

Norway 3.6 deaths per 100k
Finland 3.4 deaths per 100k
Iceland 2.8 deaths per 100k
Denmark 7.2 deaths per 100k
Germany 6.8 deaths per 100k

The state Hesse in Germany reported a short time ago that they don't see an excess mortality in the death data compared with the year before Corona came. In such an information see some people for example a reason to do nothing (=alibi argument: "herd immunity"). But such a conclusion is wrong! Because of the fight against Corona also other infections cause less victims. In Germany died for example 5640 + x people because of Corona (data from 4/26/2020 0:00 o'clock, Robert Koch Institute) and no one knows how many did not die because of other infections.

In theory - it makes not a big sense to try to verify this now, because the fight against Corona is a priority ... again: In theory it is possible that in 2020 will die less people in Germany because of infections in total, although many people die on covid-19. The reason: What we do to prevent Corona helps also to prevent other viruses. In a worst case scenario in Sweden will not only die more people on Corona but also more people on other infections than in Germany. So the data of Sweden compared with Germany means under comparable conditions: while less than one German dies will die more than 3 Swedes. The reason for is only a difference in philosophy - and for only some thoughts it is a relativelly high price, which Sweden pays in the moment.

And Sun Devil 92, I doubt about that you take yourselve serios. You lie - and you know that you lie. You take only a look at the data which support your own ideas, about this, what others should do for you - even if this means others have to die for you and your ideas. From my point of view you try to block the will of the citizens of the USA to defend the country against Corona. That's not good.

You are full of shit.

ts ts ts ts ts

Your accusation is a base projection of your own desires.

Nevertheless I'm sure you lie and you know this.

Your conclusion isn't rooted in anything more than a bulk statistic.

Exactly. I compared the numbers of most countries around Sweden (except GB).

And while others are want to use those same statistics to prove their point, they'll make all kinds of excuses for the fact that if 3 Swedes die for every German, than 9 Belgiums will die for every German.

"For" means "in relation". And I am by the way not satisfied with Germany, when I take a look at the data of Norway. We could be better.

That is from the data you listed above.

I have only recently stated that I like what Sweden did and is doing.

I do not think you know a lot about Sweden. Do you know Carl Michael Bellmann for example? Don't worry: He did not die on covid-19 - he died on tubercolosis in 1795 AD. If I would be a Swede, then Carl Michael would be a reason for me not to be satisfied with the current situation in Sweden.

Anyway: What you like is something else. You fight for the idea "herd immunity" - or with other words a careless politics of many autocrats in the world - including Trump (USA) and Johnson (UK). This darwinistic idea ("do nothing - nature will select"!) is fascinating for lots of people in the world because it is the most easy way ...(indeed it is no way at all but only a result) ... as long as they are not a member of a risk group on their own. But Sweden is not a good example for the success of this "method" (="do nothing") - specially because they do not use this method. It's more complex what Sweden is doing. But herd immunity is part of this concept and as far as I can see in the moment it is an astonishing sad concept. Could be much more better.

By the way: Yesterday died a German on covid-19 after weeks of intensive care. 26 years old with not any pre-existing disease. A tragedy ... and this was not the only tragedy yesterday. I remember in this context also the death of a 97 years old man - he died long years ago on cancer, but was not ready to die. It makes no difference: Who is not ready to die, is not ready to die. Not with 26 years and not with 97 years. Death is bullshit.

Up until then, it was simply looking at the data.

As for your final statement, I have only pointed out from the start that people have not been following the lockdown (including the people of New York) therefor any conclusions drawn from the idea that the lockdown is doing something is somewhat suspect. Whole sections of the country are going about business (not as ususal), with many of the same day to day routines.

Get a grip.

I have the feeling you try to say to me with this words, because the USA is helpless and has not any chance to win a war against this virus, it's better to surrender. Perhaps you are right. Who fights will often be wounded. But I am a German with Jewish roots. I do not live now because anyone gave up. One day I will give up - better to say I will go home - but this day is not today.

Much of the USA is fine and is winning.

Optimism is a nice thing - if optimism is correlated to reality and not to senseless empty phrases.

Sooner or later, the virus will come into contact with all of us.

The virus will under no circumstances come in contact with all of us. The solvable problem is only not to let it come in contact with people, who will die on covid-19. Soon (best case in a few month - worst case in some years) will exist one or more good vaccines and one or more special medicaments against the Corona-2 virus. But you prefer to surrender? Why? And what's your price in this game? 30 silver coins?

Surrender ?

Who are you ? And what are you talking about ?

Unless you can make a case that makes any sense, I'll start bypassing your blathering bullshit.

I have always advocated for protection of the vulnerable. The lockdown did nothing to focus on them.

We know who they are. The rest of us will be exposed in the course of time. And the lockdown strategy acknowldeges that....it was an effort to keep from overwhelming medical facilities.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

U.S.A. total deaths so far today 4/29.....

12,500.

NY/NJ/Penn leading the charge to the graveyard ==> 750

New York and NJ are still 1/2 of the total deaths in the U.S.A.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

WHO Praises Sweden For Resisting COVID-19 Lockdown

Sweden isn't resorting to enforcing social distancing or mandatory lockdown of the economy to stem the onslaught of COVID-19.

www.ibtimes.com

Even though the WHO is a Chinese POS, it was interesting they would go out on this limb.

 

[xyz]

This is the oddest chart I've seen for any country. I wonder if it is a reporting issue.


View attachment 328274

Yes, it's weird.

2 possible explanations:

1. I read somewhere that deaths at home in the UK and other countries are reported later, and something like not on a weekend. Could be something similar.

2. Swedes tend to go drinking exclusively on weekends. Like they don't drink at all during the week and get totally smashed on the weekends.

 

[eagle1462010]

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

Only in round one...................tell me who is still standing in round 12.............You don't win the War in one battle...................Sweden is fighting it up front...................

We'll see how your numbers are at the end of the War.........doubt it will look good.

 

[zaangalewa]

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

Only in round one...................tell me who is still standing in round 12.............You don't win the War in one battle...................Sweden is fighting it up front...................

We'll see how your numbers are at the end of the War.........doubt it will look good.

What an unbelievable bullshit. The whole world lost, is losing and will lose in a war against a virus and you speak about the triumph of will to be as irreal and as lazy as possible and to do less than nothing to help to win this war.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

May be Sweden is thinking it was a mistake to let all those immigrants in

May be Sweden wants to see what happens to them now

Sweden had nearly the same politics in case of refugees than Germany still has. In Germany died 5913+x people because of Corona (compared with Sweden it would had died 720+x people in Sweden with the German system - but it died in reality about three times more people: 2274+x).

And the fight against Corona in Germany saved an unkown number of people who had normally died on other infections, because the fight against Corona helps also in case of other viruses and bacteria. So it die in Germany (data from Hesse generalized) in total not significant more people. As far as I can see GB and Sweden ignore more cases of deaths because of covid-19 as Germany is doing. In GB die about two times as many people as normally die there - and it could be this is the same in Sweden. The effect of dark numbers is not clear, the situation is still very intransparent: nevertheless your anti-immigrant statement seems to be just simple wrong. I guess "education" (and/or perhaps "money" too) are the key words and not "ancestry".

Only in round one...................tell me who is still standing in round 12.............You don't win the War in one battle...................Sweden is fighting it up front...................

We'll see how your numbers are at the end of the War.........doubt it will look good.

What an unbelievable bullshit. The whole world lost, is losing and will lose in a war against a virus and you speak about the triumph of will to be as irreal and as lazy as possible and to do less than nothing to help to win this war.

Good grief.

Go hide in your mother's basement and let the rest of us alone.

You and your ilk of fucking chicken littles.....can shove this whole charade up your asses.

We've increased the global death rate by 3%.

Big....really big fucking whoop.

 

[Markle]

As the rest of Europe lives under lockdown, Sweden keeps calm and carries on

All its neighbours have shut up shop to beat coronavirus but the Swedes insist ‘we are not in quarantine’. Is that the right approach?

www.theguardian.com

Very interesting.

It has only been in the past couple of days that the death toll has started to increase significantly, rising by a third in a single day on Thursday and Friday, with 92 people now dead and 209 in intensive care. As he announced the tighter restrictions on Friday, the prime minister, Stefan Löfven, warned that the coming weeks and months would be tough.

But he defended the decision not to implement the tighter restrictions seen in Denmark, France and the UK. “We all, as individuals, have to take responsibility. We can’t legislate and ban everything,” he said. “It is also a question of commonsense behaviour.”

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist, believes it is counterproductive to bring in the tightest restrictions at too early a stage. “As long as the Swedish epidemic development stays at this level,” he tells the Observer, “I don’t see any big reason to take measures that you can only keep up for a very limited amount of time.”

*****************************

It's always good to see another take on the experiment.

I think Italy, France, Spain are in lockdown and their cases are going way way up.....If they turn soon...great.

We'll know something.

But unless Sweden gets really sick...we'll know something else.

Sweden is run by a King, not by NWO bitches like Merkel, Putin, Erdogan, Macron & Co

No, Sweden is not run by a king. King Carl XVI Gustaf is a figurehead. Sweden is a Democracy.

 

[zaangalewa]

WHO Praises Sweden For Resisting COVID-19 Lockdown

Sweden isn't resorting to enforcing social distancing or mandatory lockdown of the economy to stem the onslaught of COVID-19.

www.ibtimes.com

Even though the WHO is a Chinese POS, it was interesting they would go out on this limb.

Trump made nearly everything wrong what he was able to do wrong in context Corona-2 virus and pandemic and what is he doing now? He attacks China and the WHO. Who has still not enough trouble worldwide, needs just simple more trouble worldwide, isn't it? Is anyone or anything existing in this world, who or which Trump did not attack in the last few years - except the Corona-virus and the criminal in the third generation of criminals Kim Jong-Un?