As many as 10 dead in shooting at Batman premiere in Denver: reports

[beagle9]

Why was a 6 year old child at such a movie?????

Movie ratings can't fix stupid parents who think their job is to be their child's best friend instead of being their parents.

Yes, and the ratings control board are these hollywood extremist (wolves left gaurding the hen house), so good luck with ever getting the proper ratings anymore for these movies.

They are likened to a Sandusky, luring the children into their camp, by ratings that are set to do this (fooling them and their parents), in order to molest the childrens minds and also their parents as well in the process. They have a slick game, and it can be found out by looking back to the past, and then bringing it foward in order to see it all more clearly now. People should DEMAND better as consumers of Hollywoods products..

 

[beagle9]

To use your fire problem analogy, your solution is to take away the Fire Dept and turn off the water.

No in his analogy I think it is more like this, where as he will be adding more fire departments (taxes for more law enforcement or fire enforcement) and more water (taxes for more fire hydrants) = (more rules and law enforcing of those rules, that is equal to more water), in order to battle the fires, in which he see's as out of control assault weapons being used for violent acts.

Out of control assault weapons? You mean this happens every day? Damn! I haven't seen it in the news.

And just exactly what is an assault weapon? Black and scary looking? As I said upthread, Oswald killed JFK with a bolt action rifle.

Now, take a look at this:

Which one would you consider an assault rifle?




Actually, that's a trick question. All 4 rifles are the same rifle, they just have different stocks and, except for the 4th one, they all fire the same cartridge.

Doesn't need to happen everyday, where as when it does happen, it makes up for all the days lost, and this is due to the magnitude of these crimes when they do happen.. It is enough so that it gets people to figuring that something needs to be done, because Ameicans are not expendable at any rate or percentages given in ratio's or by multipliars in numbers of..

 

[MuadDib]

I would approve of any assault weapon or gun, to be in the hands of most people if it had some sort of smart technology on board in which I spoke of earlier within this thread. Right now we have people getting guns that are not even registering the guns or having to register them in certain states, then we have these guns falling into the hands of complete embassils/idiots who are straight out hell itself. The idle mind is the devils playhouse, and we have to many idle minds or game playing minds (X-box etc.) who have been conditioned to be able to do such things (training themslevs with these games), and then it is taken from the relm of fiction and on into the relm of reality, in which is another area to explore concerning these newly created kooks that are now living in this nation we have today, who are making use of our freedoms & theirs, but making use of them in the wrong ways.

Your smart technology idea is like a lot of Liberal ideas: they sound great in theory, but work poorly in practicality.

You do realize that technology can be defeated, don't you? If some guy can walk past you on the street with a device that steals your credit card numbers and your cell phone's info, what makes you think that they won't be able to do the same thing to your pistol, rifle or shotgun? How long will it be until some guy makes a device that he can carry in his pocket that simply turns your smart gun off while he robs or assaults you?

The drones that the military and CIA are flying over Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc., are some of the most cutting edge technology on the planet. Yet, Iran somehow managed to make one land. Some college students recently managed to spoof a drone's GPS system.

Identity theft happens all the time. People's email accounts get hacked. Bank servers get hacked. What makes you think that a smart gun can't get hacked or disabled?

Goes back to getting tougher on crime then, by re-instilling the fear into a criminals mind, that if he gets caught doing these things in which you say that he could do, will do, and already has done, then they will face dire consequences for their actions, like never seeing the light of day again etc. These crimes in which people are doing now, in which is upsetting the apple cart so terribly, and to the point of creating a wild west society again, needs hanging judges, hangings and electric chairs to return in order to meet the needs & challenges again, and this in order to get a society back in step and back on track once again. Going soft on crime like the liberals have done, is what has cost this country it's freedoms and liberty's. Of course the liberals want to claim everytime that their man is innocent, and that he is locked up for nothing and/or no reason at all, then if that don't work, they work tirelessly to make sure that he lives a good easy life in prison as best that he can. Just look at the accusations or charges against this nation in which they have claimed or made, and then look at the works by them over the years that has caused the nation to go soft on crime and the criminals who commit these heinus crimes... It is my take in which I may be wrong somewhat of my charges levied against them, but not wrong by much I don't figure looking back upon it all now. We can still have comprehensive reform of these things, and work on the smart technology as well just the same so no problem. I am glad you are thinking in ways to counter me, because it makes for progress in ones thinking about the next hump we all need to get over, so it is good.

There's nothing wrong with guns as they are. They work just fine.

But you're starting to get it. Punish the criminals and leave law abiding citizens alone. Make the punishment fit the crime and stop pussyfooting around with them. Why are convicted cold-blooded murderers being allowed to sit on Death Row for 15-20 years? Conduct their original trials and give them 2 appeals to give them a fair chance to make certain that they are not wrongly convicted, and then execute them. Hang them. Fry them. Firing squad. Guillotine. Do it publicly so that it becomes a deterrent to potential future criminals.

 

[MuadDib]

No in his analogy I think it is more like this, where as he will be adding more fire departments (taxes for more law enforcement or fire enforcement) and more water (taxes for more fire hydrants) = (more rules and law enforcing of those rules, that is equal to more water), in order to battle the fires, in which he see's as out of control assault weapons being used for violent acts.

Out of control assault weapons? You mean this happens every day? Damn! I haven't seen it in the news.

And just exactly what is an assault weapon? Black and scary looking? As I said upthread, Oswald killed JFK with a bolt action rifle.

Now, take a look at this:

Which one would you consider an assault rifle?




Actually, that's a trick question. All 4 rifles are the same rifle, they just have different stocks and, except for the 4th one, they all fire the same cartridge.

Doesn't need to happen everyday, where as when it does happen, it makes up for all the days lost, and this is due to the magnitude of these crimes when they do happen.. It is enough so that it gets people to figuring that something needs to be done, because Ameicans are not expendable at any rate or percentages given in ratio's or by multipliars in numbers of..

Like I posted upthread, if Holmes was determined to do this and didn't have access to guns, he could have done it some other way. Two or three Molotov cocktails thrown into that theater would have been far cheaper and easier to obtain and had a far more horrific result.

Punish the criminals, deter the crime by making the punishment fit it, and leave law abiding citizens alone.

 

[Cowman]

Why was a 6 year old child at such a movie?????

Why not?

Because a 6 year old should be in bed at such a time.

Why? School is out... they were with their parent(s). Stop fucking projecting your parenting values on them. There was nothing wrong with their parents taking them to see batman.

 

[Ariux]

Like I posted upthread, if Holmes was determined to do this and didn't have access to guns, he could have done it some other way. Two or three Molotov cocktails thrown into that theater would have been far cheaper and easier to obtain and had a far more horrific result.

Exactly. And, going the oil+gas or bomb route, Holmes would have had a better chance of getting away.

 

[Katzndogz]

Anyone who made over 30 grenades himself is not going to be deterred from mass murder by gun control laws.

This isn't a failure of gun control, but sanity control. The whole idea that we can save lives by keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people is simply ridiculous. Don't get rid of the guns. Get rid of the crazy people.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Does anybody believe that 1+ other people shooting at the perp and possibly each other would have improved things?

Uh yeah. Return fire suppresses assaults. Only a moron fuckwad fails to grasp this.

Perp has ballistic protection and there are that many bullets in the air in a confusing and chaotic situation.

If a few of those bullets were flying at him, he would have to hunker down or might even be killed.

Jeezus, you can't be this fucking stupid, can you?

 

[Artevelde]

Why not?

Because a 6 year old should be in bed at such a time.

Why? School is out... they were with their parent(s). Stop fucking projecting your parenting values on them. There was nothing wrong with their parents taking them to see batman.

Yes, I know certain people are offended by the very concept that there are such things as values.

 

[MuadDib]

Anyone who made over 30 grenades himself is not going to be deterred from mass murder by gun control laws.

This isn't a failure of gun control, but sanity control. The whole idea that we can save lives by keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people is simply ridiculous. Don't get rid of the guns. Get rid of the crazy people.

 

[Uncensored2008]

When has our right to keep and bear arms ever been removed in America?

NY City, Washington DC, the California ammunition ban, etc.

How can we have a long history of oppression each time it is removed when it has never been removed?

You're an idiot, which is why you're a leftist. The British routinely disarmed the populace, which is why the second amendment was written. Abraham Lincoln suspended the right to bear arms and deemed it treason for those in contested (Southern) areas.

The USA and Australia have very similar roots as English colonies.

Not really.

The USA was a loosely held series of colonies that were interacting with French, Spanish and Austrian (Prussian) competitors, guided by Locke, Payne, Adam Smith, and other intellectuals, it was a breeding ground for liberty.

Australia was a penal colony. Rather than the best and brightest seeking to employ the ideas and ideal of liberty, these were convicts accepting of the deprivation of civil liberties. Institutionalism is a foundational part of Aussie culture.

They have a parliamentary democracy that is neither oppressive or pacifistic. I don't know where you get the notion that Australians are cowardly, sheep fucking, pacifists who roll over at the slightest threat.

The Australian government isn't pacifistic, but the culture is one of obedience rather than liberty.

Unless the government interferes with their sheep shagging....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Like I posted upthread, if Holmes was determined to do this and didn't have access to guns, he could have done it some other way. Two or three Molotov cocktails thrown into that theater would have been far cheaper and easier to obtain and had a far more horrific result.

Punish the criminals, deter the crime by making the punishment fit it, and leave law abiding citizens alone.

This was a guy who was working on a doctorate at 24, who made teargas grenades that worked, who booby-trapped 5 rooms with trip wires and intrusion defeat systems. This was a VERY smart guy. He EASILY could have made Sarine or Ricin grenades and killed everyone in the building, not just the one theater, but all 18, the offices and the lobby. Keeping such a person from guns would not lower the body count, and may have increased it exponentially.

 

[Katzndogz]

Laws punishing criminals would not have stopped this mass murder, nor will it stop the next one, or the one after that.

Laws are totally ineffective against this kind of insanity.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oh please accept my apology all you poor folk who feel threatened by "people like me". I am soooo sorry for hurting your feelings with my gun disapproval. Poor petals. Aww, what can I do to make you feel better... Sweep it under the carpet?? Please, how can I ever make YOU feel better about the gun in YOUR pocket that makes YOU feel secure..

The article you posted is nothing but an irrational whine by someone overshelmed by his emotions, brought about by a tragic event. There's not an ounce of logic or reason or thought in any of it - not an ounce.

This is, of course, the liberal way.

Whatever you say, "M14 Shooter"

Refusing to accept the truth is another common facet of liberalsm

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'd like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday's victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.

More hysterical nonsense.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Amazing how the Left pays so much attention to "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state", but jumps through more hoops than a circus dog to ignore "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

They refuse to accept the fact that the individual v collective right issue is settled law, and their point of view lost out.

 

[Againsheila]

To use your fire problem analogy, your solution is to take away the Fire Dept and turn off the water.

Wait. You mean the GOVERNMENT EMPLOYED AND TRAINED AND LICENSED AND CONSTANTLY TESTED FIRE DEPT??? Great analogy! You're right! people wanting to own guns should be required to go through proper training, have to get a license, be employed and Well Regulated by the government etc... Wow! You're more radical than I am!

Fire Depts weren't always government employed and trained. Most used to be and some still are volunteers. Concerned citizens who cared about and wanted to protect their communities.

Sort of like a militia.

I think our Fire Department was better when they were 99% volunteers....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'd like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday's victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.

This morning, I made a comment about how I do not understand people who support public ownership of assault style weapons like the AR-15 used in the Colorado massacre. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

That comment, has of course, inspired a lot of feedback. There have been many tweets of agreement and sympathy but many, many more that have been challenging at the least, hostile and vitriolic at the worst.

Clearly, the angry, threatened and threatening, hostile comments are coming from gun owners and gun advocates. Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence - these people see no value to even considering some kind of control as to what kinds of weapons are put in civilian hands.

Many of them cite patriotism as their reason - true patriots support the Constitution adamantly and wholly. Constitution says citizens have the right to bear arms in order to maintain organized militias. I'm no constitutional scholar so here it is from the document itself:

As passed by the Congress:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

So the patriots are correct, gun ownership is in the constitution - if you're in a well-regulated militia. Let's see what no less a statesman than Alexander Hamilton had to say about a militia:

"A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss."

Or from Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of MILITIA
1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

The advocates of guns who claim patriotism and the rights of the 2nd Amendment - are they in well-regulated militias? For the vast majority - the answer is no.

Then I get messages from seemingly decent and intelligent people who offer things like: @BrooklynAvi: Guns should only be banned if violent crimes committed with tomatoes means we should ban tomatoes. OR @nysportsguys1: Drunk drivers kill, should we ban fast cars?

I'm hoping that right after they hit send, they take a deep breath and realize that those arguments are completely specious. I believe tomatoes and cars have purposes other than killing. What purpose does an AR-15 serve to a sportsman that a more standard hunting rifle does not serve? Let's see - does it fire more rounds without reload? Yes. Does it fire farther and more accurately? Yes. Does it accommodate a more lethal payload? Yes. So basically, the purpose of an assault style weapon is to kill more stuff, more fully, faster and from further away. To achieve maximum lethality. Hardly the primary purpose of tomatoes and sports cars.

Then there are the tweets from the extreme right - these are the folk who believe our government has been corrupted and stolen and that the forces of evil are at play, planning to take over this nation and these folk are going to fight back and take a stand. And any moron like me who doesn't see it should...
a. be labeled a moron
b. shut the fuck up
c. be removed

And amazingly, I have some minor agreement with these folks. I believe there are evil forces at play in our government. But I call them corporatists. I call them absolutists. I call them the kind of ideologues from both sides, but mostly from the far right who swear allegiance to unelected officials that regardless of national need or global conditions, are never to levy a tax. That they are never to compromise or seek solutions with the other side. That are to obstruct every possible act of governance, even the ones they support or initiate. Whose political and social goal is to marginalize the other side, vilify and isolate them with the hope that they will surrender, go away or die out.

These people believe that the US government is eventually going to go street by street and enslave our citizens. Now as long as that is only happening to liberals, homosexuals and democrats - no problem. But if they try it with anyone else - it's going to be arms-ageddon and these committed, God-fearing, brave souls will then use their military-esque arsenal to show the forces of our corrupt government whats-what. These people think they meet the definition of a "militia". They don't. At least not the constitutional one. And, if it should actually come to such an unthinkable reality, these people believe they would win. That's why they have to "take our country back". From who? From anyone who doesn't think like them or see the world like them. They hold the only truth, everyone else is dangerous. Ever meet a terrorist that doesn't believe that? Just asking.

Then there are the folks who write that if everyone in Colorado had a weapon, this maniac would have been stopped. Perhaps. But I do believe that the element of surprise, tear gas and head to toe kevlar protection might have given him a distinct edge. Not only that, but a crowd of people firing away in a chaotic arena without training or planning - I tend to think that scenario could produce even more victims.

Lastly, there are these well-intended realists that say that people like this evil animal would get these weapons even if we regulated them. And they may be right. But he wouldn't have strolled down the road to Kmart and picked them up. Regulated, he would have had to go to illegal sources - sources that could possibly be traced, watched, overseen. Or he would have to go deeper online and those transactions could be monitored. "Hm, some guy in Aurora is buying guns, tons of ammo and kevlar - plus bomb-making ingredients and tear gas. Maybe we should check that out."

But that won't happen as long as all that activity is legal and unrestricted.

I have been reading on and off as advocates for these weapons make their excuses all day long. Guns don't kill - people do. Well if that's correct, I go with @BrooklynAvi, let them kill with tomatoes. Let them bring baseball bats, knives, even machetes --- a mob can deal with that.

There is no excuse for the propagation of these weapons. They are not guaranteed or protected by our constitution. If they were, then we could all run out and purchase a tank, a grenade launcher, a bazooka, a SCUD missile and a nuclear warhead. We could stockpile napalm and chemical weapons and bomb-making materials in our cellars under our guise of being a militia.

These weapons are military weapons. They belong in accountable hands, controlled hands and trained hands. They should not be in the hands of private citizens to be used against police, neighborhood intruders or people who don't agree with you. These are the weapons that maniacs acquire to wreak murder and mayhem on innocents. They are not the same as handguns to help homeowners protect themselves from intruders. They are not the same as hunting rifles or sporting rifles. These weapons are designed for harm and death on big scales.

SO WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM? WHY DO YOU NOT, AT LEAST, AGREE TO SIT WITH REASONABLE PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES AND ASK HARD QUESTIONS AND LOOK AT HARD STATISTICS AND POSSIBLY MAKE SOME COMPROMISES FOR THE GREATER GOOD? SO THAT MOTHERS AND FATHERS AND CHILDREN ARE NOT SLAUGHTERED QUITE SO EASILY BY THESE MONSTERS? HOW CAN IT HURT TO STOP DEFENDING THESE THINGS AND AT LEAST CONSIDER HOW WE CAN ALL WORK TO TRY TO PREVENT ANOTHER DAY LIKE YESTERDAY?

We will not prevent every tragedy. We cannot stop every maniac. But we certainly have done ourselves no good by allowing these particular weapons to be acquired freely by just about anyone.

I'll say it plainly - if someone wants these weapons, they intend to use them. And if they are willing to force others to "pry it from my cold, dead hand", then they are probably planning on using them on people.

So, sorry those of you who tell me I'm an actor, or a has-been or an idiot or a commie or a liberal and that I should shut up. You can not watch my stuff, you can unfollow and you can call me all the names you like. I may even share some of them with my global audience so everyone can get a little taste of who you are.

But this is not the time for reasonable people, on both sides of this issue, to be silent. We owe it to the people whose lives were ended and ruined yesterday to insist on a real discussion and hopefully on some real action.

In conclusion, whoever you are and wherever you stand on this issue, I hope you have the joy of family with you today. Hold onto them and love them as best you can. Tell them what they mean to you. Yesterday, a whole bunch of them went to the movies and tonight their families are without them. Every day is precious. Every life is precious. Take care. Be well. Be safe. God bless.

Jason Alexander

Clearly, the angry, threatened and threatening, hostile comments are coming from gun owners and gun advocates. Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence - these people see no value to even considering some kind of control as to what kinds of weapons are put in civilian hands.

Dumb ass when you can start to be honest there will be a discussion. 100,000 Americans die every year due to gun violence? OMG WTF? You god damn lying sack of shit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'd like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday's victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.

More hysterical nonsense.

Did you see how many American die due to gun violence every year according to him?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'd like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday's victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.

More hysterical nonsense.

Did you see how many American die due to gun violence every year according to him?

Yes. Nonsense. Posts like his deserve nothing more than a dismissive rsponse.