As an Independent, I can say that most Democrats would likely prefer that Trump wins the Republican nomination over DeSantis.

[Ace Nova]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Democrats already assume Trump will be elected because they have started working on another impeachment.

 

[Esdraelon]

Anyone who expects an honest election going forward, is a fool. TIME TO BECOME UNGOVERNABLE!

 

[DGS49]

And this is why so many Democrat-run states have shifted to "open" primaries - so they can sabotage Republican primary elections P.S. You have to be a moron to register as "Independent." Then whine that you don't get to vote in primaries.

Trump cannot win. He may be one of only two Republicans who COULD lose to Joe Biden, the other one being Ted Cruz (one of my favorites). Rational Republicans pray that one of these bullshit prosecutions disqualifies Trump for 2024.

 

[BS Filter]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

Biden isn't going to get 81 million votes again.

 

[toobfreak]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

Meaning that you stand for nothing. Moderates are moderate only because they are so disengaged from world affairs they simply do not care.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates -

Right. The Afghan pullout disaster, killing energy production, war with Russia, massive inflation, southern invasion, crime out the roof, government spying, attacks on parents, women and children, pay for play bribery with foreign governments--- nope, nothing there that would shake a moderate pinhead to vote otherwise.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives.

And yet you say moderates prefer Trump running against Biden. Need I say more?

 

[skye]

Anyone who expects an honest election going forward, is a fool. TIME TO BECOME UNGOVERNABLE!

I know.

I hope MAGA and all decent Americans who want President Trump ....well....to be President again are dealing with all that corruption at every level.

Otherwise there is no hope.

 

[EMH]

What if RFKjr is the Dem nominee??

Trump vs. RFKjr


Neither is part of Zionist Fascism

Who will cover everything up and hide it in the closet?

Who will Chris Wray rig the election for?


America WINS if it is Trump vs. RFKjr, because both understand everything that has gone wrong in America since 1963 is the doing of Zionist Fascism.

 

[busybee01]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

DeSantis has lost his appeal to moderates. The six week abortion ban finished his chances. He is banning books, attacking diversity programs and stripping people of their rights. If he is so mart then why is he beating up Mickey Mouse? Donald Trump keeps egging him on and he keeps pulling stupid shit. If you thing he is a moderate, then you are not moderate nor independent.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

when you have the fbi, cia, doj,social media and the msn as part of the democraps party, they make it tough to win

then you need massive mail in and drop box fraud to seal the deal....that is how elections work now

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

What if RFKjr is the Dem nominee??

Trump vs. RFKjr


Neither is part of Zionist Fascism

Who will cover everything up and hide it in the closet?

Who will Chris Wray rig the election for?


America WINS if it is Trump vs. RFKjr, because both understand everything that has gone wrong in America since 1963 is the doing of Zionist Fascism.

america will never tolerate that horrific voice and his slow as hell speech..............awful to listen to him

 

[Dragonlady]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

No Democrats do not want Trump versus Biden 2.0. Nobody wants Trump to be the candidate because 2016 and 2020.

If he wins, it’s the end of the Republic. If he loses, he will try to overthrow the government again using the lessons he learned the first time.

Either way, the nation loses.

 

[busybee01]

Meaning that you stand for nothing. Moderates are moderate only because they are so disengaged from world affairs they simply do not care.


Right. The Afghan pullout disaster, killing energy production, war with Russia, massive inflation, southern invasion, crime out the roof, government spying, attacks on parents, women and children, pay for play bribery with foreign governments--- nope, nothing there that would shake a moderate pinhead to vote otherwise.


And yet you say moderates prefer Trump running against Biden. Need I say more?

Trump signed a surrender document according to TRUMP'S National Security Adviser. Energy production has not been killed. Republicans are trying to kill green energy production. Putin started the war. Greedy companies are causing inflation. There is no invasion. Crime is highest in red states. The government is not spying on anyone. It is right wing fascists who are threatening school boards and you are okay with that. Republicans are attacking women and children. Republicans admit they have no evidence of any bribery. You are the Nazi pinhead.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Anyone who expects an honest election going forward, is a fool. TIME TO BECOME UNGOVERNABLE!

Don't be a Dope Dork. Biden is going to smack Trump down so hard that he will never be a force in politics again.

 

[Ace Nova]

Meaning that you stand for nothing. Moderates are moderate only because they are so disengaged from world affairs they simply do not care.


Right. The Afghan pullout disaster, killing energy production, war with Russia, massive inflation, southern invasion, crime out the roof, government spying, attacks on parents, women and children, pay for play bribery with foreign governments--- nope, nothing there that would shake a moderate pinhead to vote otherwise.


And yet you say moderates prefer Trump running against Biden. Need I say more?

Stand for nothing? Quite the opposite. I stand for what I believe in.

What I don't do is follow a certain party when I may only agree with 40% of what the party's platforms are. I consider people who blindly follow a certain party victims of "mob mentality/group think" and anyone who knows and/or understands history would know how dangerous that can become.

I am "Non Partisan" first and foremost - not part of any political party. I sometimes use the term independent or moderate so folks that do not understand politics very well may get a better understanding but the reality is that I am 100% non-partisan.

- Afghan pullout disaster: Most people not blindly aligned with Trump understand that the Afghan situation began months (and years, tbh) before Biden was even president. Trump is the one who ordered troops to be pulled out and made the agreement with the Taliban - NOT Biden.

Biden had two choices: Either send more troops in; because slowly pulling them out was creating vacuums of control and feuding between the Taliban and other regional warlords - which escalated tensions, creating a much more dangerous situation for the troops that remained. OR - continue with what Trump had ordered, which was the pullout of all troops.

What happened at the airport was a tragedy. But the fact is that is exactly what would have happened (eventually) had we not sent in more troops to stabilize the region. The terrorists that attacked at the airport were fighting for control of the region - against us AND the Taliban - who had already brokered a "deal" with Trump. We were down to a "skeleton crew" of troops by that point and everyone knew it - they saw our "weakness" and launched at the opportunity to take control once they knew that we were leaving and would no longer be a "threat" to them.

Personally, I didn't agree with any of it. The Afghan war was only a "war" in theory by this point. 96.5% of the casualties of the war in Afghanistan occurred between 2001 and 2015. Between 2016 and 2021 the casualty rate dropped significantly. The total amount of casualties for the final 6 years of the war were less than 3.5% of the total casualties.

No one wants to see one single US troop perish in a foreign war. That said, there's a reason we were still there after 20 years - and it was to maintain stability in the region - which we did successfully between 2016 and 2021. Everyone saw the disaster Iraq became after we pulled our troops. It drained the region of stability and dozens of terrorist groups formed. These groups ended up creating hundreds and even thousands of casualties in the region - many US contractors, citizens, etc. We learned that you cannot simply, "pull out all troops" from a region like that because in the end, it will end up hurting, killing, destroying even more than if we were to stay - and many times we need to go back, send more troops back, etc etc.

I was against the Iraq War and only favored the Afghan war because Bin Laden had not yet been caught and intelligence said that Afghanistan was either his hiding place or a region where he could continue to harvest his terroristic intentions. Once Bin Laden was taken care of, there was little reason to continue the war in Afghanistan - other than to provide stability for the region. Yes, I was against the wars for the most part but my view became, "We made our bed, now we need to lie in it." To simply "force" a massive pullout could lead to disastrous results - the same way it led to disastrous results in Iraq.

Unfortunately, Trump used the war to gain political support - it's easy to run a platform saying, "I will get all our troops home in the longest war in American History" etc. What's not easy is to create a plan that will get those troops home without the risk of taking casualties. Trump decided to broker a deal with the Taliban (who were previously our enemies) because he felt they must have been "the lesser of evils". Apparently they promised better human rights, better treatment of women, etc etc. I'm guessing the thinking was along the lines of, "It's better to have the Taliban take over, even though they are against most American beliefs, especially against the beliefs of Trump supporters, then it would be to not fulfill a campaign promise and lose the election because of it".

So at the end of the day, it was a poorly planned decision, initiated by the Trump Administration, which fell into the laps of the Biden Administration.

Inflation - inflation is an issue and yes, I agree, causes concern among most people. What happens over the course of the next 12 - 18 months will decided whether or not Biden will lose support. If it slows down to a reasonable rate (less than 3%) then I think any support Biden may have lost initially because of inflation could get regained - since he was "able to fix" the issue that was created under his admin.

Crime? Crime spiked in 2020 during Trump's administration. Was that because of Trump? No, it was because of the pandemic. It's been gradually decreasing since then but is still higher than pre-pandemic numbers. So do you blame Trump for the increase in crime since it happened under his watch? If not, why would you blame Biden?

Government Spying? The single most "invasive" law that was ever passed in the history of the United States was the Patriot Act. Guess who passed it? George W Bush with Bi Partisan support in 2001. Blaming one side or the other for "government spying" is laughable. Everyone seemed to agree to it just fine 22 years ago. Most law abiding citizens back then said, "If you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about." So what's changed since then?

As far as the rest of your concerns, you'll need to be more specific but I don't see how most moderates would blame Biden for it.

Moderates prefer Trump running against Biden? Uhm probably not. Most leftist/democrats likely prefer Trump running against Biden.

Most moderates prefer the best candidates on either side to run against each other - moderates want to see clean, level headed debates - and many may not even choose who they are voting for until weeks, sometimes days, before the election.

 

[munkle]

Thanks for letting us know that the Deep State is afraid of DeSantis.

 

[skye]

Thanks for letting us know that the Deep State is afraid of DeSantis.

I don't thin the Deep State is afraid of DeSantis! not at all....on the contrary

but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ace Nova]

DeSantis has lost his appeal to moderates. The six week abortion ban finished his chances. He is banning books, attacking diversity programs and stripping people of their rights. If he is so mart then why is he beating up Mickey Mouse? Donald Trump keeps egging him on and he keeps pulling stupid shit. If you thing he is a moderate, then you are not moderate nor independent.

I live in Florida so maybe I have the advantage of seeing what truly is happening here vs. click bait newsfeeds, tweets, etc.

Banning books? Nope. Every single adult in the state of Florida can still access and/or purchase any book available to the rest of the country.

What they can't do is force certain controversial books and/or the teaching of controversial subjects, to be required reading for grade school aged children. Do you honestly not see the difference between what you're implying and the truth?

Any parent, can without question, still read and teach their children those subjects - and quite frankly, certain subjects SHOULD be taught by parents - and not by a random school teacher who may have their own opinion on the matter.

Do you want your grade school aged child learning very personal (sometimes sexual) and controversial subjects by a teacher you may have only met for a few moments here or there - or would you, as a responsible parent, prefer to do it yourself?

As far as the Disney situation goes - I tend to agree that's one area where he should back off. It wasn't a very good idea to begin with and quite frankly, it goes against core Republican principles to interfere and attempt to dictate how a business in the private sector should be run.

And no, I don't think that DeSantis is a "moderate" in terms of "overall" ideology. He is a conservative but he is a level headed, modern thinking conservative who (for the most part) raises valid points. He's not perfect (and like the Disney situation) can make mistakes.
I think the jury is still out on him to an extent but if he slows down on "us vs them" rhetoric and begins to show that (at least some) conservative approaches can be beneficial for all Americans, including progressives; he could potentially gain a good amount of support from most right leaning moderates/centrists and from some on the middle/left as well.

 

[Lakhota]

I am 100% politically non-partisan/independent/moderate.

From what I see, most people on the left would prefer Trump vs Biden 2.0 in the general election over DeSantis vs Biden.

Why?

-Biden has already beaten Trump once in the general election and has the support among most moderates to beat him again. The general election is no longer about "who has the strongest, most radical followers" - it's about who is more appealing to MODERATES. Moderates/Independents decide who wins the general election in almost all elections.

- Trump has done a great job rallying his followers but not so good of a job rallying moderates.

-Biden, on the other hand, has remained relatively low-key but hasn't done anything major to lose the support of most moderates - at least nothing grave enough to turn them into Trump voters.

- DeSantis has come across as being very appealing to most moderates on the right - he's a level headed, well spoken, polished conservative who is also a highly educated military veteran. He checks off most boxes for the vast majority of moderate conservatives. Any other year (or time) he would be the hands on favorite. The only thing slowing him down is the loyalty of Trump supporters to Trump.

Thoughts?

I agree. We want the fight for the life of democracy to be against Trump.

 

[Ace Nova]

No Democrats do not want Trump versus Biden 2.0. Nobody wants Trump to be the candidate because 2016 and 2020.

If he wins, it’s the end of the Republic. If he loses, he will try to overthrow the government again using the lessons he learned the first time.

Either way, the nation loses.

I think you missed my main point - which was implying that DeSantis has a better chance of beating Biden in the general election. Like you said, Trump remains (at least optically) to still be a very divisive candidate to most people on the left and middle - meaning that Biden could likely beat him again because a good portion of the country (whether justified or not) are scared of him becoming president again.