Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

[abu afak]

Compared with Trump, previous presidents extracted more concessions from N. Korea, experts say
Compared with Trump, previous presidents extracted more concessions from N. Korea, experts say
By John Hudson - June 12 WaPost

When President Bill Clinton struck a landmark deal with North Korea in 1994, the isolated nation agreed to take a variety of specific steps that included freezing and later dismantling its nuclear program, as well as opening its facilities to international inspectors.

When President George W. Bush forged a deal in 2005, North Korea promised to abandon all of its nuclear weapons programs and return to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

On Tuesday, when President Trump unveiled his agreement, he excoriated past presidents for failing to make the issue a “priority” and hailed his own document as “very, very comprehensive.”

But scholars say the joint statement signed by Trump and Kim Jong Un Reduces North Korea’s commitments to just ONE sentence: a pledge to “work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

“It is the most Watered-down joint statement concerning these two nations Ever,” said Sung-Yoon Lee, a North Korea expert at Tufts University......

`​

 

[jc456]

Compared with Trump, previous presidents extracted more concessions from N. Korea, experts say
Compared with Trump, previous presidents extracted more concessions from N. Korea, experts say
By John Hudson - June 12 WaPost

When President Bill Clinton struck a landmark deal with North Korea in 1994, the isolated nation agreed to take a variety of specific steps that included freezing and later dismantling its nuclear program, as well as opening its facilities to international inspectors.

When President George W. Bush forged a deal in 2005, North Korea promised to abandon all of its nuclear weapons programs and return to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

On Tuesday, when President Trump unveiled his agreement, he excoriated past presidents for failing to make the issue a “priority” and hailed his own document as “very, very comprehensive.”

But scholars say the joint statement signed by Trump and Kim Jong Un Reduces North Korea’s commitments to just ONE sentence: a pledge to “work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

“It is the most Watered-down joint statement concerning these two nations Ever,” said Sung-Yoon Lee, a North Korea expert at Tufts University......

​

so explain if Clinton got this...

When President Bill Clinton struck a landmark deal with North Korea in 1994, the isolated nation agreed to take a variety of specific steps that included freezing and later dismantling its nuclear program, as well as opening its facilities to international inspectors.

Why is Trump working on denuclearization? Why the banter about red buttons? Some stuff you just can't make up. what a bunch of sad individual americans and humans. Cause this affects more than americans. when your heads up your ass I guess you see the same thing daily. How much cash did it cost the US as well?

No, Bill Clinton did not give North Korea $3 billion

"The United States provided energy funds of $549.7 million in two chunks to North Korea, one between 1995 and 2003, another between 2007 and 2009. From the context of his remark, it seems Trump was talking about the first stream under Clinton."

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have to laugh that righties are promoting a Trump photo op with Kim that spent millions of American tax dollars for nothing.

Kim has give no solid indication he intends to give up his nukes.

He has bamboozled Trump and his followers.

 

[abu afak]

You have to laugh that righties are promoting a Trump photo op with Kim that spent millions of American tax dollars for nothing.

Kim has give no solid indication he intends to give up his nukes.

He has bamboozled Trump and his followers.

The deal was a Joke/Photo OP for Trumpov
No more.
He just likes the attention.
`

 

[jc456]

You have to laugh that righties are promoting a Trump photo op with Kim that spent millions of American tax dollars for nothing.

Kim has give no solid indication he intends to give up his nukes.

He has bamboozled Trump and his followers.

The deal was a Joke/Photo OP for Trumpov
No more.
He just likes the attention.
`

and still got more done in one day than any previous president without giving any money to them. LOL

 

[PredFan]

We even had an OP today saying - paraphrase - "Gee, Trump must got something we don't know about".. "It can't be as bad as it looks.
Maybe true, but not for the USA, for Trumpov.
Such as him saving ZTE in exchange for Chinese buddies financing his $500 Mil Indonesia Project.
And the Chinese were the absent Elephant in the Room.
So Trumpov got the HUGE attention he wanted, and eventually perhaps the 'Trump Pyongyang Hotel and Golf Club.'
Otherwise it's still 2-0 Kim.
Legitimacy they wanted for 30 years, and ending war games.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea
The Singapore statement pales even in comparison with the interim, preliminary Iran deal signed by the U.S. and other world powers in 2013.
BORZOU DARAGAHI - 06.12.18 - 2:13 PM ET
The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

ISTANBUL — One was the result of 12 years of painstaking negotiations over two U.S. presidential administrations and three changes of government on the other side, with the U.N. Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and leaders from the capitals of half a dozen countries actively involved.
The other was hammered out by two beefy guys with bad hair during the equivalent of a long layover in Singapore.
[......]
But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader."..."​

Iran Deal Comparisons Cloud Trump's North Korea Summit
Trump's proclamations of historic success at his unprecedented summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un have drawn unflattering comparisons to his rejection of the Iran nuclear deal.
June 13, 2018 - BY MATTHEW LE - AP Diplomatic Writer
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...l-comparisons-cloud-trumps-north-korea-summit

(AP) President Donald Trump's triumphant assertions about the success of the unprecedented Singapore summit are being met with skepticism and outright derision from critics seizing on the contradiction between his withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and his willingness to accept vague pledges from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
[......]
"While I am glad the president and Kim Jong Un were able to meet, it is difficult to determine what of concrete nature has occurred," said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said he wanted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will lead the follow-on negotiations, to explain details of what the administration has in mind.

The top Democrat on that panel, Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who also opposed the Iran deal, took issue with Trump's zeal as well as his announcement of the suspension of U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
"In exchange for Selfies in Singapore, we have Undermined our maximum pressure policy and sanctions," Menendez said.

For Iran deal proponents, though, the Singapore summit was evidence of Trump's Lack of preparedness and poor negotiating skills. Iran deal opponents, meanwhile, seemed willing to wait and see."...​

`

Reality never ever agrees with you morons.

 

[jc456]

We even had an OP today saying - paraphrase - "Gee, Trump must got something we don't know about".. "It can't be as bad as it looks.
Maybe true, but not for the USA, for Trumpov.
Such as him saving ZTE in exchange for Chinese buddies financing his $500 Mil Indonesia Project.
And the Chinese were the absent Elephant in the Room.
So Trumpov got the HUGE attention he wanted, and eventually perhaps the 'Trump Pyongyang Hotel and Golf Club.'
Otherwise it's still 2-0 Kim.
Legitimacy they wanted for 30 years, and ending war games.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea
The Singapore statement pales even in comparison with the interim, preliminary Iran deal signed by the U.S. and other world powers in 2013.
BORZOU DARAGAHI - 06.12.18 - 2:13 PM ET
The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

ISTANBUL — One was the result of 12 years of painstaking negotiations over two U.S. presidential administrations and three changes of government on the other side, with the U.N. Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and leaders from the capitals of half a dozen countries actively involved.
The other was hammered out by two beefy guys with bad hair during the equivalent of a long layover in Singapore.
[......]
But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader."..."​

Iran Deal Comparisons Cloud Trump's North Korea Summit
Trump's proclamations of historic success at his unprecedented summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un have drawn unflattering comparisons to his rejection of the Iran nuclear deal.
June 13, 2018 - BY MATTHEW LE - AP Diplomatic Writer
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...l-comparisons-cloud-trumps-north-korea-summit

(AP) President Donald Trump's triumphant assertions about the success of the unprecedented Singapore summit are being met with skepticism and outright derision from critics seizing on the contradiction between his withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and his willingness to accept vague pledges from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
[......]
"While I am glad the president and Kim Jong Un were able to meet, it is difficult to determine what of concrete nature has occurred," said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said he wanted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will lead the follow-on negotiations, to explain details of what the administration has in mind.

The top Democrat on that panel, Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who also opposed the Iran deal, took issue with Trump's zeal as well as his announcement of the suspension of U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
"In exchange for Selfies in Singapore, we have Undermined our maximum pressure policy and sanctions," Menendez said.

For Iran deal proponents, though, the Singapore summit was evidence of Trump's Lack of preparedness and poor negotiating skills. Iran deal opponents, meanwhile, seemed willing to wait and see."...​

`

Reality never ever agrees with you morons.

they don't agree with reality. that's how girls can be boys and boys can be girls. cause they don't believe in science.

 

[abu afak]

Reality never ever agrees with you morons.

How so TROLL?
You understand how message board's work?
You put up REBUTTAL or STFU.

ie, my post on this top of this page.
ANYTHING Asshole?
`

 

[jc456]

Reality never ever agrees with you morons.

How so TROLL?
You understand how message board's work?
You put up REBUTTAL or STFU.

ie, my post on this top of this page.
ANYTHING Asshole?
`

I did, you didn't respond. why not?

 

[abu afak]

I did, you didn't respond. why not?

What was the point of that confused/confusing/stupid post?
The pointS of mine were this was THE most watered down/Non-committal pledge FROM NK that any President ever got.

AND that the other Presidents wouldn't even give Kim him the Legitimacy meeting his family has wanted for 30 years despite getting more from Kim.
Trump just likes the limelight and so gave it away. The biggest item.
Got it now goofy?
`

 

[jc456]

I did, you didn't respond. why not?

What was the point of that confused/confusing/stupid post?
The pointS of mine were this was THE most watered down/Non-committal pledge FROM NK that any President ever got.

AND that the other Presidents wouldn't even give Kim him the Legimacy meeting his family has wanted for 30 years despite getting more from Kim.
Trump just likes the limelight and so gave it away. The biggest item.
Got it now goofy?
`

you posted that Clinton got rid of nukes in NK. no he didn't. you didn't understand that? wow. you posted it. you should understand what you post before you post it then. just some friendly advice.

 

[abu afak]

you posted that Clinton got rid of nukes in NK. no he didn't. you didn't understand that? wow. you posted it. you should understand what you post before you post it then. just some friendly advice.

NO I did not
Nor did my article you IDIOT.
Kim committed to Clinton to do so.. and still didn't get the Legitimacy meeting he wanted despite pledging more to him than to Trumpov.

You are another 12 IQ Moron who is impossible to debate.
`

 

[LordBrownTrout]

We even had an OP today saying - paraphrase - "Gee, Trump must got something we don't know about".. "It can't be as bad as it looks.
Maybe true, but not for the USA, for Trumpov.
Such as him saving ZTE in exchange for Chinese buddies financing his $500 Mil Indonesia Project.
And the Chinese were the absent Elephant in the Room.
So Trumpov got the HUGE attention he wanted, and eventually perhaps the 'Trump Pyongyang Hotel and Golf Club.'
Otherwise it's still 2-0 Kim.
Legitimacy they wanted for 30 years, and ending war games.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea
The Singapore statement pales even in comparison with the interim, preliminary Iran deal signed by the U.S. and other world powers in 2013.
BORZOU DARAGAHI - 06.12.18 - 2:13 PM ET
The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

ISTANBUL — One was the result of 12 years of painstaking negotiations over two U.S. presidential administrations and three changes of government on the other side, with the U.N. Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and leaders from the capitals of half a dozen countries actively involved.
The other was hammered out by two beefy guys with bad hair during the equivalent of a long layover in Singapore.
[......]
But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader."..."​

Iran Deal Comparisons Cloud Trump's North Korea Summit
Trump's proclamations of historic success at his unprecedented summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un have drawn unflattering comparisons to his rejection of the Iran nuclear deal.
June 13, 2018 - BY MATTHEW LE - AP Diplomatic Writer
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...l-comparisons-cloud-trumps-north-korea-summit

(AP) President Donald Trump's triumphant assertions about the success of the unprecedented Singapore summit are being met with skepticism and outright derision from critics seizing on the contradiction between his withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and his willingness to accept vague pledges from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
[......]
"While I am glad the president and Kim Jong Un were able to meet, it is difficult to determine what of concrete nature has occurred," said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said he wanted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will lead the follow-on negotiations, to explain details of what the administration has in mind.

The top Democrat on that panel, Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who also opposed the Iran deal, took issue with Trump's zeal as well as his announcement of the suspension of U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
"In exchange for Selfies in Singapore, we have Undermined our maximum pressure policy and sanctions," Menendez said.

For Iran deal proponents, though, the Singapore summit was evidence of Trump's Lack of preparedness and poor negotiating skills. Iran deal opponents, meanwhile, seemed willing to wait and see."...​

`

The iran deal was a joke. There was nothing binding and plenty of sunsetting.

 

[xyz]

We even had an OP today saying - paraphrase - "Gee, Trump must got something we don't know about".. "It can't be as bad as it looks.
Maybe true, but not for the USA, for Trumpov.
Such as him saving ZTE in exchange for Chinese buddies financing his $500 Mil Indonesia Project.
And the Chinese were the absent Elephant in the Room.
So Trumpov got the HUGE attention he wanted, and eventually perhaps the 'Trump Pyongyang Hotel and Golf Club.'
Otherwise it's still 2-0 Kim.
Legitimacy they wanted for 30 years, and ending war games.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea
The Singapore statement pales even in comparison with the interim, preliminary Iran deal signed by the U.S. and other world powers in 2013.
BORZOU DARAGAHI - 06.12.18 - 2:13 PM ET
The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

ISTANBUL — One was the result of 12 years of painstaking negotiations over two U.S. presidential administrations and three changes of government on the other side, with the U.N. Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and leaders from the capitals of half a dozen countries actively involved.
The other was hammered out by two beefy guys with bad hair during the equivalent of a long layover in Singapore.
[......]
But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader."..."​

Iran Deal Comparisons Cloud Trump's North Korea Summit
Trump's proclamations of historic success at his unprecedented summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un have drawn unflattering comparisons to his rejection of the Iran nuclear deal.
June 13, 2018 - BY MATTHEW LE - AP Diplomatic Writer
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...l-comparisons-cloud-trumps-north-korea-summit

(AP) President Donald Trump's triumphant assertions about the success of the unprecedented Singapore summit are being met with skepticism and outright derision from critics seizing on the contradiction between his withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and his willingness to accept vague pledges from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
[......]
"While I am glad the president and Kim Jong Un were able to meet, it is difficult to determine what of concrete nature has occurred," said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said he wanted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will lead the follow-on negotiations, to explain details of what the administration has in mind.

The top Democrat on that panel, Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who also opposed the Iran deal, took issue with Trump's zeal as well as his announcement of the suspension of U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
"In exchange for Selfies in Singapore, we have Undermined our maximum pressure policy and sanctions," Menendez said.

For Iran deal proponents, though, the Singapore summit was evidence of Trump's Lack of preparedness and poor negotiating skills. Iran deal opponents, meanwhile, seemed willing to wait and see."...​

`

Not comparable, the Korean summit was just a thawing of the ice. It's the beginning of a relationship, not much has been accomplished and it could take years. It could fail as well, but I hope it doesn't.

Apples and oranges.

I am aware of the Chinese and Russian input, but I wouldn't say it's a bad deal so far, because it's too early to say.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bush Clinton Obama all got more than Trump.

Trump finally gave the creep a one on one summit, which had never been done by a sensible President before.

Sensible is not Trump.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

We even had an OP today saying - paraphrase - "Gee, Trump must got something we don't know about".. "It can't be as bad as it looks.
Maybe true, but not for the USA, for Trumpov.
Such as him saving ZTE in exchange for Chinese buddies financing his $500 Mil Indonesia Project.
And the Chinese were the absent Elephant in the Room.
So Trumpov got the HUGE attention he wanted, and eventually perhaps the 'Trump Pyongyang Hotel and Golf Club.'
Otherwise it's still 2-0 Kim.
Legitimacy they wanted for 30 years, and ending war games.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea
The Singapore statement pales even in comparison with the interim, preliminary Iran deal signed by the U.S. and other world powers in 2013.
BORZOU DARAGAHI - 06.12.18 - 2:13 PM ET
The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

ISTANBUL — One was the result of 12 years of painstaking negotiations over two U.S. presidential administrations and three changes of government on the other side, with the U.N. Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and leaders from the capitals of half a dozen countries actively involved.
The other was hammered out by two beefy guys with bad hair during the equivalent of a long layover in Singapore.
[......]
But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader."..."​

Iran Deal Comparisons Cloud Trump's North Korea Summit
Trump's proclamations of historic success at his unprecedented summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un have drawn unflattering comparisons to his rejection of the Iran nuclear deal.
June 13, 2018 - BY MATTHEW LE - AP Diplomatic Writer
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...l-comparisons-cloud-trumps-north-korea-summit

(AP) President Donald Trump's triumphant assertions about the success of the unprecedented Singapore summit are being met with skepticism and outright derision from critics seizing on the contradiction between his withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and his willingness to accept vague pledges from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
[......]
"While I am glad the president and Kim Jong Un were able to meet, it is difficult to determine what of concrete nature has occurred," said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said he wanted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will lead the follow-on negotiations, to explain details of what the administration has in mind.

The top Democrat on that panel, Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who also opposed the Iran deal, took issue with Trump's zeal as well as his announcement of the suspension of U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
"In exchange for Selfies in Singapore, we have Undermined our maximum pressure policy and sanctions," Menendez said.

For Iran deal proponents, though, the Singapore summit was evidence of Trump's Lack of preparedness and poor negotiating skills. Iran deal opponents, meanwhile, seemed willing to wait and see."...​

`

Garbage -- Obama is in no way a better deal maker than Trump

History has already been written.

 

[abu afak]

Garbage -- Obama is in no way a better deal maker than Trump

History has already been written.

USMB "Too Stupid to post" member #2627.

Now, all you have to do is put some meat on the bone/back your statement and we could have a coherent message board/discussion! !
But no.
The 12 IQers here just declare things.
`

 

[xyz]

Bush Clinton Obama all got more than Trump.

Trump finally gave the creep a one on one summit, which had never been done by a sensible President before.

Sensible is not Trump.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

Nixon opened up talks with China. China is still pretty bad in some ways, but not as bad as how it was under Mao.

I don't really want to go into other things Nixon and Trump have done, yes they pose a lot of problems, but this is too partisan. If it was about Obama it would have been the exact same thing going the other way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Far more would have come from a six-nation summit.

We are grateful the two boyos did not blow up the world.

 

[CowboyTed]

You do realize there was NO DEAL....dumbass.

BBC
US 'wants N Korea disarmament by 2020'

.....
What does the Deal lack?
Most Western observers have said the deal includes no new commitments from North Korea nor details on how denuclearisation could be achieved or verified.

How has the Deal been received?
Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe spoke to Donald Trump after the summit, saying there was "great meaning in Chairman Kim's clearly confirming to President Trump the complete denuclearisation"...."
`​

The non deal is less than what Clinton and Bush got.... And far less than what Obama got...

The whole thing looked like Chamberlian meeting Hitler... Trump kissed Kim's ass...