Army aviators, ready to leave the military, are told they owe 3 more years instead

[odanny]

My CO was a Captain and also an aviator, he told me back in 1991 that he made more money than a full bird Colonel because of his flight pay. An aviator Captain making more money than an infantry Colonel.

 

[Couchpotato]

My CO was a Captain and also an aviator, he told me back in 1991 that he made more money than a full bird Colonel because of his flight pay. An aviator Captain making more money than an infantry Colonel.

He was lying to you.

An O-6 (over 20 because there are very few O-6's with less) makes 12k a month

An O-3 maxes out their base pay at under 8k a month. The maximum that O-3 can get in incentive pays for flying is less than 1500 a month.

Any O-6 with more than 10 years in services makes more than 9500 a month.

Did you not know how to check the pay charts?

Defense Finance and Accounting Service > MilitaryMembers > payentitlements > Pay Tables

www.dfas.mil

 

[odanny]

He was lying to you.

An O-6 (over 20 because there are very few O-6's with less) makes 12k a month

An O-3 maxes out their base pay at under 8k a month. The maximum that O-3 can get in incentive pays for flying is less than 1500 a month.

Any O-6 with more than 10 years in services makes more than 9500 a month.

Did you not know how to check the pay charts?

Defense Finance and Accounting Service > MilitaryMembers > payentitlements > Pay Tables

www.dfas.mil

He wasn't "lying to me", moron. I said it was 1991.

You can believe it, or not, I don't care.

 

[Couchpotato]

He wasn't "lying to me", moron. I said it was 1991.

You can believe it, or not, I don't care.

Everyones pay goes up at the same percentage rate dum dum. You can go back and look at the 91 paycharts and I’ll still be right. It’s not like we don’t know what O3s and O6s were being paid then.

An O6 made 4600 a month
An O3 made 2900 a month

Maxing out the aviation pay was 650.

https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1991.pdf

Sorry bud he was lying to you. Was he your Daddy or something? Why are you taking it so personally?

 

[odanny]

Everyones pay goes up at the same percentage rate dum dum. You can go back and look at the 91 paycharts and I’ll still be right. It’s not like we don’t know what O3s and O6s were being paid then.

An O6 made 4600 a month
An O3 made 2900 a month

Maxing out the aviation pay was 650.

https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1991.pdf

Sorry bud he was lying to you. Was he your Daddy or something? Why are you taking it so personally?

I don't remember the exact numbers, but he told me back then how much more he made more than a colonel with flight pay.

 

[Couchpotato]

I don't remember the exact numbers, but he told me back then how much more he made more than a colonel with flight pay.

Who cares what he told you. DFAS isnt lying. It's there in black and white.

 

[odanny]

Who cares what he told you. DFAS isnt lying. It's there in black and white.

I care what he told me. You don't have to believe it, but things change 30 years later.

Who cares if you believe it.

 

[Couchpotato]

I care what he told me. You don't have to believe it, but things change 30 years later.

Who cares if you believe it.

Dude. I linked the paycharts from 91. It’s not debatable. I believe that he told you he made more than an O6. It just wasn’t the truth. But feel free to provide a link to paycharts that prove me wrong.

 

[Mushroom]

I don't know what a "new retirement program" is, when I was in, it was 20 years to get a pension.

It went into effect over a decade ago.

In short, it is closer to a 401K, where you put money into it as you serve, and the military matches it.

And yes, a lot are not happy with it. But it came about for many reasons. A lot of people were complaining that unless they served 20 years, they got nothing. Even though the Thrift Savings Plan was started all the way back in 1986 that would let somebody do exactly that. And at the same time, a lot of people in the Reserves and Guard were complaining that they had to wait until they were 60 to get their pensions.

The DoD and Congress went in circles over this for about two decades, and finally decided that no matter what people would complain, so they adopted the new system. An advantage is that it is transportable, so if one leaves the military they can "take it with them". But on the other side, it likely will not be enough to allow somebody to actually retire at around 40 like many had done in the past.

 

[Mushroom]

Who cares if you believe it.

It was never true, he was having one over on you.

No more than a Captain with Jump Pay would make more than a Colonel.

This should be obvious, as one is in the final stage of Company Grade, and the other is in the final grade of Field Grade. It would be the equivalent of an E-3 who gets flight pay trying to claim they make more than an E-6 or E-7. Yes, they are paid more, but not that much more.

In fact, the extra pay is not even enough to equate to a full difference in rank in most cases. No more than my separation and combat pay made me get more than somebody 2 ranks higher than me in the US.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The only thing the American military is good for is to fund defense contractors and off books projects. “Wars” drag on for decades only because they benefit Boeing, Raytheon, et al. and they allow the Pentagon to fund their off book Moon base or reverse engineered UFO. You think the Pentagon lost the $2 Trillion that can’t be accounted??

 

[Couchpotato]

The only thing the American military is good for is to fund defense contractors and off books projects. “Wars” drag on for decades only because they benefit Boeing, Raytheon, et al. and they allow the Pentagon to fund their off book Moon base or reverse engineered UFO. You think the Pentagon lost the $2 Trillion that can’t be accounted??

Off the books moon base?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Off the books moon base?

Who the fuck knows?!!!!

It’s $2 Trillion!!!

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't know what a "new retirement program" is, when I was in, it was 20 years to get a pension.

Well it ain’t that way anymore. That change happened 7-8 years ago.

You can still "retire" with 20 years of service.

What they did was change the pay structure. Used to be you could transfer to the Fleet Reserve (I'm retired Navy) and draw 50% of base pay, everyone calls it "retiring". Now they have a "Thrift Savings Plan" (TSP), basically a 401K, and make deposits of 1% of base (and you can make more) and then still draw retainer*** pay is but now it's 40% at 20 years.

WW
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Can't speak for the other services but in the Navy if you "retire" at less than 30 years you are actually transferred from active duty to the Fleet Reserve, your check is technically retainer pay as you are subject to recall to active duty until you reach 30 years. At 30 years you are then placed on the retirement list and start drawing "retirement" pay. It's the same amount of money coming from the same source, but a lot of people don't realize there is a difference.

 

[WorldWatcher]

It went into effect over a decade ago.

In short, it is closer to a 401K, where you put money into it as you serve, and the military matches it.

And yes, a lot are not happy with it. But it came about for many reasons. A lot of people were complaining that unless they served 20 years, they got nothing. Even though the Thrift Savings Plan was started all the way back in 1986 that would let somebody do exactly that. And at the same time, a lot of people in the Reserves and Guard were complaining that they had to wait until they were 60 to get their pensions.

The DoD and Congress went in circles over this for about two decades, and finally decided that no matter what people would complain, so they adopted the new system. An advantage is that it is transportable, so if one leaves the military they can "take it with them". But on the other side, it likely will not be enough to allow somebody to actually retire at around 40 like many had done in the past.

It's now a blended system of Defined Contribution (Thrift Savings Plan, 401K like part) and a traditional Defined Benefits. The defined benefits portion changed from 50% @ 20 years and 75% @ 30 years to 2% per year with 20 minimum which changes it to 40% and 60% respectively. Basically changing the 2.5% per year over 20 years increase to 2%.

As a retired Navy Chief (enlisted), I'd be hard pressed to live on military retirement only. But having retired at 38 and gone on to a second career, the military retirement has a valuable supplement to our primary income as it pretty much covered the house payment.
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Not sound cynical but there is one reason only that they did it, that was to cut personnel costs.

WW

 

[Couchpotato]

You can still "retire" with 20 years of service.

What they did was change the pay structure. Used to be you could transfer to the Fleet Reserve (I'm retired Navy) and draw 50% of base pay, everyone calls it "retiring". Now they have a "Thrift Savings Plan" (TSP), basically a 401K, and make deposits of 1% of base (and you can make more) and then still draw retainer*** pay is but now it's 40% at 20 years.

WW
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Can't speak for the other services but in the Navy if you "retire" at less than 30 years you are actually transferred from active duty to the Fleet Reserve, your check is technically retainer pay as you are subject to recall to active duty until you reach 30 years. At 30 years you are then placed on the retirement list and start drawing "retirement" pay. It's the same amount of money coming from the same source, but a lot of people don't realize there is a difference.

You can still "retire" with 20 years of service.

What they did was change the pay structure. Used to be you could transfer to the Fleet Reserve (I'm retired Navy) and draw 50% of base pay, everyone calls it "retiring". Now they have a "Thrift Savings Plan" (TSP), basically a 401K, and make deposits of 1% of base (and you can make more) and then still draw retainer*** pay is but now it's 40% at 20 years.

WW
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.
.
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Can't speak for the other services but in the Navy if you "retire" at less than 30 years you are actually transferred from active duty to the Fleet Reserve, your check is technically retainer pay as you are subject to recall to active duty until you reach 30 years. At 30 years you are then placed on the retirement list and start drawing "retirement" pay. It's the same amount of money coming from the same source, but a lot of people don't realize there is a difference.

The only person confused about the current retirement system is McRib.

 

[mak2]

Ok how is this? At one point after I got out of the Marine Corps I joined the Army reserve to go to college. The Army paid for my 2 year degree at a local private university. the program was suppose to have been a Respiratory Therapist degree at a local state college. It was a brand new program and the sergeant that was recruiting me was new to recruiting. I told her I planned to be an RN and she said ok, sign right here. I said cool, write that right there on page 3 or c or what ever it was. She did, then I told her which school I wanted to go to, she said fine and wrote that down. And her chain of command signed off on it. I dunno, I think it costed the Army $40k for each year, it was a free ride to an expensive private college back in the day. I had been a Marine for 4 years and knew to have the recruiter write everything down, seems like it was on page 3 or some miscilaneous box to write in conditions. Anyway about 6 weeks into my first semester the First Sargent (who was a shit bird, sloppy uniform, long hair hands in his pockets etc) calls me and says, "Mak2 we did it wrong, the program you are in cannot go to that school for that program, and we will not pay the school. blah blah blah." I said something to the effect of, "well hey, first sergeant I have this contract thingy here that specifically states all the above. Oh, and look you and the CO etc singed it, I guess I will go talk to Congressman Burton about it." This was about the time desert storm was getting going and everyone was all patriotic. I got home and there was a message on my message recorder saying something to the effect of I have a complete free ride for the degree agreed on. The US Army paid for ever dollar of my education during the contract. The government ended up paying for all of it up to my Masters degree. Anyway I was at drill one week end and the Major I was working with (a pretty good guy) knew all about what happened with my contract and he figured out I was making about $500 a duty day counting my pay. He did not make near that much. He was bitter, I was a Spec 4. Sometimes it does work out lower ranks make more.

 

[Couchpotato]

Ok how is this? At one point after I got out of the Marine Corps I joined the Army reserve to go to college. The Army paid for my 2 year degree at a local private university. the program was suppose to have been a Respiratory Therapist degree at a local state college. It was a brand new program and the sergeant that was recruiting me was new to recruiting. I told her I planned to be an RN and she said ok, sign right here. I said cool, write that right there on page 3 or c or what ever it was. She did, then I told her which school I wanted to go to, she said fine and wrote that down. And her chain of command signed off on it. I dunno, I think it costed the Army $40k for each year, it was a free ride to an expensive private college back in the day. I had been a Marine for 4 years and knew to have the recruiter write everything down, seems like it was on page 3 or some miscilaneous box to write in conditions. Anyway about 6 weeks into my first semester the First Sargent (who was a shit bird, sloppy uniform, long hair hands in his pockets etc) calls me and says, "Mak2 we did it wrong, the program you are in cannot go to that school for that program, and we will not pay the school. blah blah blah." I said something to the effect of, "well hey, first sergeant I have this contract thingy here that specifically states all the above. Oh, and look you and the CO etc singed it, I guess I will go talk to Congressman Burton about it." This was about the time desert storm was getting going and everyone was all patriotic. I got home and there was a message on my message recorder saying something to the effect of I have a complete free ride for the degree agreed on. The US Army paid for ever dollar of my education during the contract. The government ended up paying for all of it up to my Masters degree. Anyway I was at drill one week end and the Major I was working with (a pretty good guy) knew all about what happened with my contract and he figured out I was making about $500 a duty day counting my pay. He did not make near that much. He was bitter, I was a Spec 4. Sometimes it does work out lower ranks make more.

Were not making more than Maj as a Specialist. You morons act like the pay charts arent online.

 

[mak2]

Were not making more than Maj as a Specialist. You morons act like the pay charts arent online.

Counting my college benefits I certainly was.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Were not making more than Maj as a Specialist. You morons act like the pay charts arent online.

Just to point out, it could be a function of perspective.

For example, do the pay charts include the $60,000 bonus my daughter gets?
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On the other hand anecdotal stories also don't apply to the vast majority.

WW