Armed Teachers...

Canon Shooter

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2020
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After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.

I believe we should.

I'm not advocating that every teacher be armed. The last thing I would want to have is someone who, for whatever reason, either cannot or will not use a gun properly. If a teacher doesn't want to be armed, I can respect that. What I can't respect, though, is when those who choose to be unarmed want to insist that others should not be allowed to be armed.

Opponents of this idea are quick to say that it's a bad idea, yet, thus far, every single one has failed to offer a valid reason as to why it would be a bad idea. Apparently, opponents are of the belief that a teacher can't be properly trained in the use of a firearm, or in the use of deadly force. I reject that idea. Once upon a time, every single person who is a cop today did not know how use a firearm. They learned how to use a firearm. If a teacher is smart enough to teach, doesn't it fit that the teacher should be smart enough to learn, too?

Let those who wish to be armed be armed, and those who don't wish to be armed can remain unarmed.

Often mentioned is the idea of "crossfire". Let's discuss that for a minute, because it's really an invalid concern.

In order for crossfire to occur, a minimum of two people need to be shooting at the same target, which is between them. Now, I'm not entirely sure why, but opponents seem to believe that once law enforcement shows up, an armed teacher will still be blasting away. That's simply not the case. A simple doctrine would be that the teacher secures his or her weapon when police arrive. That way there's no chance that the teacher is misidentified as the active shooter, and the teacher can get to the task of comforting students instead of protecting them.

Opponents will also often say that the teachers aren't police officers, and that police officers should be allowed to do their jobs. Well, that sounds nice, doesn't it? Unfortunately, at Robb Elementary, the police were on hand yet they failed to do their job for 78 minutes. That means, for well over an hour, Salvador Ramos was able to kill. The police made a bad call and it resulted in 21 deaths. Could an armed teacher have stopped Ramos? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. What we do know is that the police didn't. Isn't having a slight chance at stopping an active shooter better than having no chance to stop an active shooter?

Or how about Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida? That's another example of police being on the scene but failing to do their jobs. As a result, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was able to walk through the school, killing people along the way, simply because there was no one to challenge him, and no one to stop him.

In 2001 my daughter was a freshman at Santana High School in Santee, California. Her classmate, Andy Williams, shot 15 people, killing two of them. A 23 year old security officer, Peter Ruiz, was shot three times in the back as he was going for help. Peter is still a dear friend to this day. He doesn't mince words when he speaks of the incident. He told me once "Steve, if I had a gun I could've stopped him."

And not that it was a school shooting, but it shows how an ordinary person with a gun can have an impact: In December of 2012 I was living in Portland, Oregon and was in a store not far from the food court at Clackamas Town Center when 22 year old Jacob Roberts entered the shopping mall and started shooting. A shopper in the food court, who was legally carrying a concealed weapon (a Glock), drew his weapon and aimed it at Roberts. Roberts saw the man, ran into a stairwell, and blew his brains out.

You don't have to be a police officer to stop a shooter...
 
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After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.

I believe we should.

I'm not advocating that every teacher be armed. The last thing I would want to have is someone who, for whatever reason, either cannot or will not use a gun properly. If a teacher doesn't want to be armed, I can respect that. What I can't respect, though, is when those who choose to be unarmed want to insist that others should not be allowed to be armed.

Opponents of this idea are quick to say that it's a bad idea, yet, thus far, every single one has failed to offer a valid reason as to why it would be a bad idea. Apparently, opponents are of the belief that a teacher can't be properly trained in the use of a firearm, or in the use of deadly force. I reject that idea. Once upon a time, every single person who is a cop today did not know how use a firearm. They learned how to use a firearm. If a teacher is smart enough to teach, doesn't it fit that the teacher should be smart enough to learn, too?

Let those who wish to be armed be armed, and those who don't wish to be armed can remain unarmed.

Often mentioned is the idea of "crossfire". Let's discuss that for a minute, because it's really an invalid concern.

In order for crossfire to occur, a minimum of two people need to be shooting at the same target, which is between them. Now, I'm not entirely sure why, but opponents seem to believe that once law enforcement shows up, an armed teacher will still be blasting away. That's simply not the case. A simple doctrine would be that the teacher secures his or her weapon when police arrive. That way there's no chance that the teacher is misidentified as the active shooter, and the teacher can get to the task of comforting students instead of protecting them.

Opponents will also often say that the teachers aren't police officers, and that police officers should be allowed to do their jobs. Well, that sounds nice, doesn't it?Unfortunately, at Robb Elementary, the police were on hand yet they failed to do their job for 78 minutes. That means, for well over an hour, Salvador Ramos was able to kill. The police made a bad call and it resulted in 21 deaths. Could an armed teacher have stopped Ramos? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. What we do know is that the police didn't. Isn't having a slight chance at stopping an active shooter better than having no chance to stop an active shooter?

Or how about Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida? That's another example of police being on the scene but failing to do their jobs. As a result, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was able to walk through the school, killing people along the way, simply because there was no one to challenge him, and no one to stop him.

In 2001 my daughter was a freshman at Santana High School in Santee, California. Her classmate, Andy Williams, shot 15 people, killing two of them. A 23 year old security officer, Peter Ruiz, was shot three times in the back as he was going for help. Peter is still a dear friend to this day. He doesn't mince words when he speaks of the incident. He told me once "Steve, if I had a gun I could've stopped him."

And not that it was a school shooting, but it shows how an ordinary person with a gun can have an impact: In December of 2012 I was living in Portland, Oregon and was in a store not far from the food court at Clackamas Town Center when 22 year old Jacob Roberts entered the shopping mall and started shooting. A shopper in the food court, who was legally carrying a concealed weapon (a Glock), drew his weapon and aimed it at Roberts. Roberts saw the man, ran into a stairwell, and blew his brains out.

You don't have to be a police officer to stop a shooter...
I think that arming teachers is a bad idea. However; if a teacher is properly trained and willing, I don't have a problem with it.

In My opinion, we need to harden our schools, in much the same way we harden all the other things we value in this society. Banks, Political Power, Courthouses, Airports.

After all, it is a matter of prioritizing the things we value the most.

IF that isn't our children, then God help us.
 
After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.

I believe we should.

I'm not advocating that every teacher be armed. The last thing I would want to have is someone who, for whatever reason, either cannot or will not use a gun properly. If a teacher doesn't want to be armed, I can respect that. What I can't respect, though, is when those who choose to be unarmed want to insist that others should not be allowed to be armed.

Opponents of this idea are quick to say that it's a bad idea, yet, thus far, every single one has failed to offer a valid reason as to why it would be a bad idea. Apparently, opponents are of the belief that a teacher can't be properly trained in the use of a firearm, or in the use of deadly force. I reject that idea. Once upon a time, every single person who is a cop today did not know how use a firearm. They learned how to use a firearm. If a teacher is smart enough to teach, doesn't it fit that the teacher should be smart enough to learn, too?

Let those who wish to be armed be armed, and those who don't wish to be armed can remain unarmed.

Often mentioned is the idea of "crossfire". Let's discuss that for a minute, because it's really an invalid concern.

In order for crossfire to occur, a minimum of two people need to be shooting at the same target, which is between them. Now, I'm not entirely sure why, but opponents seem to believe that once law enforcement shows up, an armed teacher will still be blasting away. That's simply not the case. A simple doctrine would be that the teacher secures his or her weapon when police arrive. That way there's no chance that the teacher is misidentified as the active shooter, and the teacher can get to the task of comforting students instead of protecting them.

Opponents will also often say that the teachers aren't police officers, and that police officers should be allowed to do their jobs. Well, that sounds nice, doesn't it? Unfortunately, at Robb Elementary, the police were on hand yet they failed to do their job for 78 minutes. That means, for well over an hour, Salvador Ramos was able to kill. The police made a bad call and it resulted in 21 deaths. Could an armed teacher have stopped Ramos? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. What we do know is that the police didn't. Isn't having a slight chance at stopping an active shooter better than having no chance to stop an active shooter?

Or how about Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida? That's another example of police being on the scene but failing to do their jobs. As a result, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was able to walk through the school, killing people along the way, simply because there was no one to challenge him, and no one to stop him.

In 2001 my daughter was a freshman at Santana High School in Santee, California. Her classmate, Andy Williams, shot 15 people, killing two of them. A 23 year old security officer, Peter Ruiz, was shot three times in the back as he was going for help. Peter is still a dear friend to this day. He doesn't mince words when he speaks of the incident. He told me once "Steve, if I had a gun I could've stopped him."

And not that it was a school shooting, but it shows how an ordinary person with a gun can have an impact: In December of 2012 I was living in Portland, Oregon and was in a store not far from the food court at Clackamas Town Center when 22 year old Jacob Roberts entered the shopping mall and started shooting. A shopper in the food court, who was legally carrying a concealed weapon (a Glock), drew his weapon and aimed it at Roberts. Roberts saw the man, ran into a stairwell, and blew his brains out.

You don't have to be a police officer to stop a shooter...
6D536AE0-2CE1-4CAF-BA19-1C25739D8A61.jpeg
 
I think that arming teachers is a bad idea. However; if a teacher is properly trained and willing, I don't have a problem with it.

And that would be absolutely mandatory, with no exceptions...

In My opinion, we need to harden our schools, in much the same way we harden all the other things we value in this society. Banks, Political Power, Courthouses, Airports.

Unfortunately it's coming down to that.

My high school, on Long Island, was wide the fuck open all day long. But we also didn't have these first person shooter games that give kids some odd sense of glory when they win. While I would come short of blaming them, I do think that a certain mindset can be adversely affected by playing those games.

I'd like to see a study of mass shooters, and see if they played those types of games. I'm only about a month away from 60, so I can't relate to those. Our play time included being outside with our friends almost all the time...

After all, it is a matter of prioritizing the things we value the most.

IF that isn't our children, then God help us.

No argument there...
 

Well, we know that being unarmed doesn't work. If you have any doubt about that you can ask Irma Garcia's children.

But I have a question for you: If your child were in a classroom when a shooter entered the room, would you prefer your child's teacher be in a position to protect your child, or would you prefer that the shooter murder your child?

Because that's what happened to Irma Garcia and her students...
 
And that would be absolutely mandatory, with no exceptions...



Unfortunately it's coming down to that.

My high school, on Long Island, was wide the fuck open all day long. But we also didn't have these first person shooter games that give kids some odd sense of glory when they win. While I would come short of blaming them, I do think that a certain mindset can be adversely affected by playing those games.

I'd like to see a study of mass shooters, and see if they played those types of games. I'm only about a month away from 60, so I can't relate to those. Our play time included being outside with our friends almost all the time...



No argument there...
I'm of the same age as you, 61; and you bring up an interesting thing I hadn't thought about in a very long time.

When I was in school when we were permitted to put down the clay tablets and go outside to play, the school was enclosed in a fence so that we could not go out (a blessing to the local neighborhood, to be sure) but that nothing could enter except through approved entry points.

Then I remember we went to 'open campus' everywhere sometime in the mid-70s.

Maybe we need to return to that kind of model.
 
Well, we know that being unarmed doesn't work. If you have any doubt about that you can ask Irma Garcia's children.

But I have a question for you: If your child were in a classroom when a shooter entered the room, would you prefer your child's teacher be in a position to protect your child, or would you prefer that the shooter murder your child?

Because that's what happened to Irma Garcia and her students...
I would prefer the school hire armed security. Its not the teachers job.
 
You do know you will have to pay the teachers more to work armed?

Maybe, maybe not.

My former sister in law is a middle school teacher, and she carries a concealed weapon. She doesn't get paid more because of that.

That said, if it means paying them more, I would be completely okay with that...
 
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Teachers are not your God damn sacrificial lambs so that you can keep your AR-15.
They are there to teach and educate children — not fucking storm Normandy.
We're keeping our AR-15s whether you like it or not.

You can have "armed teachers and live schoolchildren" or "unarmed teachers and dead schoolchildren".

I really don't care which you choose. But if you choose poorly, don't bother whining at me for sympathy.
 
I’m not afraid. It’s a dumb question. No one wants their child murdered. If the government is not going to do anything to get guns out of the hands of these people, they should have armed security in every school.

Well, the reality is that they don't. But, if they did, how many security personnel would be sufficient? One? A dozen? My high school had a total of 74 teachers. Imagine having 74 people determined to protect your child.

And of course no one wants their child to be murdered. But if the only thing that's going to prevent that is a teacher with a gun, wouldn't you want there to be a teacher with a gun in your child's classroom?
 

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