Arizona's new law

[Midnight Marauder]

When was the last time you heard of a drive-by shooting perpetrated by Jim Beam?

The comparison of heroin or crack or meth to alcohol really is foolish.

Don'tcha think? And besides, you really want to legalize those?

But, to the point -- bootlegging still goes on. It's a every weekend occurrence here where I live, it's a rite of passage for 18-19 year olds to bootleg Texas beer over to New Mexico or Oklahoma, selling it at double and sometimes triple the price -- since the only legal beer in those states is the 3.2% crap.

Moonshine is still made and sold. Folks still get killed over it.

Tobacco -- there's still a illicit trade there.

Legalizing and taxing this stuff does NOT get rid of the illicit trade, and in the case of the really hard and addicting drugs? It will have no effect at all.

If you think about it.

 

[Big Fitz]

Smuggling and bootlegging is a phenomenon that will always exist as it is in human nature to look for the best deal possible for goods and services, or even to have access to illegal or illicit items. You will never get rid of it, you can only minimize it.

During WW2, my grandmother had to buy basic food supplies like butter and sugar on the black market because of rationing. There were gas rations as well. Don't suppose for a second THAT didn't breed a black market either.

And since markets, black/grey/white can never go away because economic law is the science of scarcity, you will always have it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Smuggling and bootlegging is a phenomenon that will always exist as it is in human nature to look for the best deal possible for goods and services, or even to have access to illegal or illicit items. You will never get rid of it, you can only minimize it.

During WW2, my grandmother had to buy basic food supplies like butter and sugar on the black market because of rationing. There were gas rations as well. Don't suppose for a second THAT didn't breed a black market either.

And since markets, black/grey/white can never go away because economic law is the science of scarcity, you will always have it.

In the case of the really hard drugs, no amount of regulating, legalizing or taxing is going to make even a dent in the illicit trade.

I doubt it would even make a dent in illicit marijuana trade. What, the government is really gonna allow worthwhile weed to be sold at retail? C'mon now.

 

[Oddball]

When was the last time you heard of a drive-by shooting perpetrated by Jim Beam?

The comparison of heroin or crack or meth to alcohol really is foolish.

Don'tcha think? And besides, you really want to legalize those?

But, to the point -- bootlegging still goes on. It's a every weekend occurrence here where I live, it's a rite of passage for 18-19 year olds to bootleg Texas beer over to New Mexico or Oklahoma, selling it at double and sometimes triple the price -- since the only legal beer in those states is the 3.2% crap.

Moonshine is still made and sold. Folks still get killed over it.

Tobacco -- there's still a illicit trade there.

Legalizing and taxing this stuff does NOT get rid of the illicit trade, and in the case of the really hard and addicting drugs? It will have no effect at all.

If you think about it.

Crack and meth probably wouldn't even exist at all if weren't for prohibition.

Moonshine is the exception, not the rule. Besides that, urban areas aren't basically war zones because they're fighting over floor time at midnight basketball.

Although there will always be black marketeering, the idea is to get rid of the excessive violence caused by the failed policy...That does at least as much damage as the junk itself.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

When was the last time you heard of a drive-by shooting perpetrated by Jim Beam?

The comparison of heroin or crack or meth to alcohol really is foolish.

Don'tcha think? And besides, you really want to legalize those?

But, to the point -- bootlegging still goes on. It's a every weekend occurrence here where I live, it's a rite of passage for 18-19 year olds to bootleg Texas beer over to New Mexico or Oklahoma, selling it at double and sometimes triple the price -- since the only legal beer in those states is the 3.2% crap.

Moonshine is still made and sold. Folks still get killed over it.

Tobacco -- there's still a illicit trade there.

Legalizing and taxing this stuff does NOT get rid of the illicit trade, and in the case of the really hard and addicting drugs? It will have no effect at all.

If you think about it.

Crack and meth probably wouldn't even exist at all if weren't for prohibition.

Moonshine is the exception, not the rule. Besides that, urban areas aren't basically war zones because they're fighting over floor time at midnight basketball.

Although there will always be black marketeering, the idea is to get rid of the excessive violence caused by the failed policy...That does at least as much damage as the junk itself.

Where's anything, anything at all, supporting that assertion?

And I do agree with you that we don't need new laws and/or panic legislation, we need to enforce the laws we already have on the books.

 

[Oddball]

Walk into any given liquor store...There's the evidence.

They make the majority of their money on beer and wine....Almost nobody drinks 151 rum or PGA.

If the laws are stupid, like recreational drug laws are, they need to be junked, not enforced.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If the laws are stupid, like recreational drug laws are, they need to be junked, not enforced.

I was talking about the border enforcement laws, not the drug laws on my last post. Should have been more clear.

But your first point is wrong. You are not going to have any effect on HARD drug illicit trade by legalizing any of it. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle.

 

[Oddball]

Nonsense....You'll take the criminal element out of it and the substances will be much less potent.

One of the reasons that AZ passed today's new law is that the feds are derelict....That said, the vast majority of violence perpetrated by the illegals is definitely drug trade related.

 

[Big Fitz]

of course not. The Chinese Opium Wars are proof to that pudding.

And smuggling will still go on, cause government's going to tax the shit out of it. Hell, the majority of illegal cigarettes is because mom n pop stores are saving a buck on the tax stamp.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Nonsense....You'll take the criminal element out of it and the substances will be much less potent.

That's worked so well on liquor and beer.

One of the reasons that AZ passed today's new law is that the feds are derelict....That said, the vast majority of violence perpetrated by the illegals is definitely drug trade related.

And legalizing hard drugs won't stop that or even slow it down.

You're seriously saying we should legalize meth, crack, powder coke and heroin? Really?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

And smuggling will still go on, cause government's going to tax the shit out of it.

And not just that, the potency of the drug won't be the same. Marijuana is a good example. Does anyone think the government is going to allow the legal sale of GOOD weed?

Of course not.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm all for creating a virus that gives people anaphylactic shock from THC. But that's just me.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

IMO, it will end up being used to harass innocent people and eventually force everyone to carry papers or maybe even get an identifying tattoo.

It will be funny to see what happens if Obama goes to Arizona, though, I believe there are a lot of birthers there.

It will do no such thing. The courts have already weighed in on the states requiring people to carry ID.

The Governor herself said she doesn't know what an illegal alien looks like. Police would need a reasonable suspicion that is not racist. The governor said Arizona will not tolerate racism with this new law.

schizo.

 

[Oddball]

Nonsense....You'll take the criminal element out of it and the substances will be much less potent.

That's worked so well on liquor and beer.

Actually, it has.

One of the reasons that AZ passed today's new law is that the feds are derelict....That said, the vast majority of violence perpetrated by the illegals is definitely drug trade related.

And legalizing hard drugs won't stop that or even slow it down.

You're seriously saying we should legalize meth, crack, powder coke and heroin? Really?

Yes, really...Meth and crack would disappear, for all practical purposes, like bath tub gin did.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Nonsense....You'll take the criminal element out of it and the substances will be much less potent.

That's worked so well on liquor and beer.

Actually, it has.

One of the reasons that AZ passed today's new law is that the feds are derelict....That said, the vast majority of violence perpetrated by the illegals is definitely drug trade related.

And legalizing hard drugs won't stop that or even slow it down.

You're seriously saying we should legalize meth, crack, powder coke and heroin? Really?

Yes, really...Meth and crack would disappear, for all practical purposes, like bath tub gin did.

Come on.....

Let go of my leg Dude.

 

[Big Fitz]

Oh sure legalized drugs will slow most drug use down. Sorta like when Tylenol had the poisoning scare. Took years for them to build back market share because there was that CHANCE that taking a product could kill them. The same way that moonshine will never outsell say Bacardi 151. They're similar in results, but one is almost assuredly not going to make you go blind.

So, prices being similar, would you trust the product assured to be safe for a consistent return on investment, or would you prefer the product that is cheaper, but has a chance of killing you just by using it? Or at least lobotomizing you?

I'm thinking you, like most Americans will choose the safe route no matter the brain addling they get.

 

[The T]

IMO, it will end up being used to harass innocent people and eventually force everyone to carry papers or maybe even get an identifying tattoo.

It will be funny to see what happens if Obama goes to Arizona, though, I believe there are a lot of birthers there.

I hope the italicized/emboldened reference isn't lost on anyone here?

RAVIOLI? What are you saying here?

And more of import? WHOM are you indicting with that idiotic remark?

Who is most famous for demanding identity papers? If the shoe fits...and it fits very well.

Try getting pulled over and not abiding by the LAW? Guess where that lands you?

 

[Zander]

God forbid we actually secure our borders......

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

God forbid we actually secure our borders......

Living in CA. I have seen some things that have altered my views on immigration reform, but laws like this are as stupid as your post. They say and do nothing worthwhile.

Just another whine.

 

[LilOlLady]

This isn't as much about immigration as it is the idiotic "war" on (some) drugs.

Immigrants coming to America to work --even the illegal ones-- aren't the ones committing all the violent crimes driving this dopey law. It's the drug smugglers and dealers.

One of the same. They hide behind jobs in order to do their acts of crime. Tell me how a hard working illegal aliens, getting law wages pay cash for a house, etc. You cannot tell who is dealing except how they live. Denial is you world.