Are you middle class?

[editec]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

Holy shamolies, I'm extremely poor!

Of course the only real measure of wealth is net worth, not income.

In that case, I'm merely sorta poor.

I am informed that if all American families were liquidated today, less than 20% of them would have a positive net worth.

The recent decline in most Americans only REAL ASSET (their homes) is likely the major problem.

 

[saveliberty]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

Holy shamolies, I'm extremely poor!

Of course the only real measure of wealth is net worth, not income.

In that case, I'm merely sorta poor.

I am informed that if all American families were liquidated today, less than 20% of them would have a positive net worth.

The recent decline in most Americans only REAL ASSET (their homes) is likely the major problem.

Homes values are the evidence of the real problem. Think Barney Franks and Wall Street.

 

[blastoff]

And no im not in the middle class. not even close. But I will be in the Upper class someday.

Congrats. You've taken the first step in your quest. Good luck the rest of the way.

 

[editec]

My income is currently around 15-20k. Investment type income. My farm income pays my taxes and upkeep on the farm. And provides some good eatin.
I pay ~ 50K to my hired help plus the other taxes and such. But they get free housing and vehicle.
And major medical type of insurance, plus sick and vacation pay.
Just 2 employees a man and wife.

Middle class I am not by income, but my net worth is well over 1 mill. and I have no debts.
I have ~3/4 mill in liquid (Gold) assets and about 1/3 mill in secure bonds and such.
so no problem for the rest of my life.

You're the perfect example of why I say that NET WORTH is the true indicator of what class one is in.

Your net worth puts you into the top 1% or so, would be my guess.

And the liquidy of your GOLD assets is very impressive since those assets cannot easily be affected by changes in asset valuations as we just saw happen to real estate.

According to wikipedia, the US has no legally-recognized social classes. Elites exist, but are numerous and there is no universally recognized hierarchy of people. Generally, sociologists use a five class model:

Upper class-1% to 3%(not including home); above $500,000

Upper middle class - 10% or so of the U.S. population; between $250,000 and $500,000

Middle-middle class -40% or so of the U.S. population; between $125,000 and $250,000

Lower-middle classs -30% or so of the U.S. population; $50,000 to $125,000

Lower classs -20% of the U.S. population ; $0 to $50,000

source

 

[Newby]

MARXISTS IDENTIFY the ruling capitalist class in society by recognizing how that class owns and controls what Marx called the "means of production." The means of production are the factories, the offices, the mines, forms of transportation, etc., necessary for producing goods and services.

Those in the working class, on the other hand, don't own or control the means of producing what they would need to live. In order to survive, they have to sell their ability to labor--to work at some job for a wage, which they then use to pay for food, rent and so on.

These are the two main classes in society--the capitalist class and the working class. The relationship between them is based on exploitation--that is, the fact that the working class produces profits that the capitalist class appropriates. In between the capitalist class and the working class, and pressured by both, lies a middle class.

It's important to see that Marxists understand class as a relationship--how people are connected economically to each other and to the means of production--rather than something to do with lifestyle, or even income or status.

Also, this relationship is based on power--because control over production determines who has power over society. Thus, while some of Enron's employees had good incomes and were able to lead an expensive lifestyle, this didn't prevent them from losing their jobs and savings. Ultimately, they had little power over their conditions of work. By contrast, Ken Lay and the rest of the corporate crooks could get away with highway robbery because of their power as owners or executives in control of the company.

If you accept the Marxist definition of class, then out of the roughly 145 million people who are considered to be part of the U.S. workforce, only about 2 to 3 percent are part of the capitalist class--in the sense that they exercise substantial control over the means of production or the important institutions of society. Some 70 to 75 percent of the workforce belongs to the working class, and the remainder are part of the middle class.

The myth of a classless America

One big hole in what you have in your post is shareholders. Every day people own pieces of capital through investments in their savings or otherwise. So, there's no definite line dividing any of the 'classes' that are in your commentary. You can be a part of both the capitalist and the working class, and millions in this country are.

 

[froggy]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

Does that mean you only have half class?

 

[sealybobo]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

Lets see who is middle class 8 years later.

Which Income Class Are You?

Slip Slidin' Away: America's Shrinking Middle Class

 

[sealybobo]

We don't have a class based society in the US.

Oh yes we do. You must not be rich.

You probably pretend to be middle class.

 

[sealybobo]

We don't have a class based society in the US.

Really? Then how come the rich get to drive better cars?

Or how come the police patrol their neighborhoods better than ours? For example I was working in this rich neighborhood and the cops came to the door because our car was in the street. Would any cop care or notice if a car was parked in front of a house in Detroit? No way. The rich people in the rich cities pay more taxes and get better service.

The fire department and 911 respond a lot quicker in rich neighborhoods.


How naive to suggest we don't live in a class based society.

 

[saveliberty]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

Lets see who is middle class 8 years later.

Which Income Class Are You?

Slip Slidin' Away: America's Shrinking Middle Class

Personally I must have moved up, middle middle according to the definitions given.

 

[saveliberty]

We don't have a class based society in the US.

Really? Then how come the rich get to drive better cars?

Or how come the police patrol their neighborhoods better than ours? For example I was working in this rich neighborhood and the cops came to the door because our car was in the street. Would any cop care or notice if a car was parked in front of a house in Detroit? No way. The rich people in the rich cities pay more taxes and get better service.

The fire department and 911 respond a lot quicker in rich neighborhoods.


How naive to suggest we don't live in a class based society.

I live close to both, so there is an excellent response time for me.

 

[Claudette]

We don't have a class based society in the US.

Well I guess I'm lower middle class but I do just fine thanks.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Upper middle class.

"Based on your household income and the number of people in your household, YOU are in the UPPER income tier, along with 23% of adults in HOUSTON-THE WOODLANDS-SUGAR LAND."

 

[sealybobo]

how-to-gauge-your-middle-class-status: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Hope you all did better than me.

I'm better than middle class!!!

Household of one: $26,093 to $78,281

I make more than $78,281.

52% of Americans are considered 'middle class'—here's how much money they earn

About one-fifth of American households, 19%, are considered upper class, while 29% are lower class. The median income of upper class households was $187,872 in 2016. For lower income households, it was $25,624.

I can't believe I'm upper class.

Household of one: Minimum of $78,281 to be upper-class

Again, I make more than $78,281.

 

[initforme]

In today's America I believe it takes an income of 100 grand to reach middle class status. Other entities tell us different to sell us their point of view. When we have a structure where the top two percent own at least 80 percent of the wealth we kinda do have a society of different classes.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Really? Then how come the rich get to drive better cars?

You can drive a better car too, if that is what you decide is the best use of your money. Point CaliforniaGirl is making, to me, is you are not excluded because of your class from purchasing such a good.

"Class" is a term politicians use to divide citizens, because fractured groups are easier to manipulate and control than a free people. So, we have (mainly lefties) whipping up resentment against anyone who is perceived as a different 'class'. Instead of respecting the ability of all Americans to achieve by hard work and determination, those who have less are taught it is not 'fair' for others to have more. We used to respect people who worked hard. Now, apparently, we resent them. Pathetic.

Thank you for clarifying. I agree with your view. My point in bring this up was I am working harder than I was several years ago, yet seem to be slipping according to these standards. If I am the same, what changed? I would say it is inflation.

Here's how this works (I'll use home sales as an example).
Someone purchases a house on the market (long, long ago), for $20,000. Fast forward a couple of decades, that same person has made some improvements on the house. He/she decides the house is now worth, not $20,000 plus whatever figure he/she put into its improvement, say...$5,000. but, wants to make more than the basic price he/she paid plus the improvements, he/she decides to sell it for $50,000....reason, he/she wants a profit. The realtor, says it won't sell for that, but the seller insists, so it goes on the market for whatever price the asker wants and lo and behold, someone desperate to live in that area, pays the overpriced figure. It sells, so those around figure, well, let's sell ours for much more than they are worth and get back vastly more than they paid for it in the first place. Hence the price of homes keeps skyrocketing, as people are gullible enough to pay what the price tag says, or close to it. Your retailer sells their product for a profit and each year, hike up the price and lo and behold, the public says, okay.
In England, the banks wanted to charge for withdrawals from their ATM's like the US does, the public said....no, in mass. Hence, the banks backed off and don't charge for using their ATM's.
Bottom line. We here in the US, are sheep. Whatever the companies claim they want you to pay for their product, we simply say, okay. If enough people rose up and said, "we're not paying that much for your product," the prices would stay down. But they don't, so the prices of all goods rise and companies are under no incentive to pay you more for your work, just because you can't afford certain products and thus your purchasing power deteriorates over time.
The solution isn't for government to take over companies. Governments are inefficient entities that only decrease productivity and as things dwindle, think less food products to choose from and less variety of other commodities, all the worker does is stay at the bottom of the feeding trough. The way for the public to maintain strong purchasing power is to not buy those products (food items aside as you have to eat), that you feel are overpriced. Do you really need that personal computer? Do you really need the latest cellphone? Do you really need the latest Nike's, Ultra-HD TV, a new car, designer clothing, or bigger home? If enough people inform companies that their product is overpriced and they're not going to pay the asking price, companies would have little choice to lower prices, or lose large amounts of sales.
A good example are pharmaceuticals. In the US we pay exorbitant amounts for the same drug that 3rd world nations pay pennies on the dollars for. The reason: "The US populace can afford to pay more and do."

 

[sealybobo]

In today's America I believe it takes an income of 100 grand to reach middle class status. Other entities tell us different to sell us their point of view. When we have a structure where the top two percent own at least 80 percent of the wealth we kinda do have a society of different classes.

The only reason I'm upper class is I have no dependents and no debt.

 

[sealybobo]

In today's America I believe it takes an income of 100 grand to reach middle class status. Other entities tell us different to sell us their point of view. When we have a structure where the top two percent own at least 80 percent of the wealth we kinda do have a society of different classes.

Kind of weird calling myself upper class but I was in 2016 and I don't see why I'm not still today

These numbers are in 2016 dollars.

Pew looked at various household sizes. Here’s the minimum amount you’d have to earn each year to be considered upper-class, depending on the size of your family:

Household of one: Minimum of $78,281 to be upper-class
Household of two: Minimum of $110,706 to be upper-class
Household of three: Minimum of $135,586 to be upper-class
Household of four: Minimum of $156,561 to be upper-class
Household of five: Minimum of $175,041 to be upper-class

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

I blew out the household of 5 so I cant complain

 

[sealybobo]

Really? Then how come the rich get to drive better cars?

You can drive a better car too, if that is what you decide is the best use of your money. Point CaliforniaGirl is making, to me, is you are not excluded because of your class from purchasing such a good.

"Class" is a term politicians use to divide citizens, because fractured groups are easier to manipulate and control than a free people. So, we have (mainly lefties) whipping up resentment against anyone who is perceived as a different 'class'. Instead of respecting the ability of all Americans to achieve by hard work and determination, those who have less are taught it is not 'fair' for others to have more. We used to respect people who worked hard. Now, apparently, we resent them. Pathetic.

Thank you for clarifying. I agree with your view. My point in bring this up was I am working harder than I was several years ago, yet seem to be slipping according to these standards. If I am the same, what changed? I would say it is inflation.

Here's how this works (I'll use home sales as an example).
Someone purchases a house on the market (long, long ago), for $20,000. Fast forward a couple of decades, that same person has made some improvements on the house. He/she decides the house is now worth, not $20,000 plus whatever figure he/she put into its improvement, say...$5,000. but, wants to make more than the basic price he/she paid plus the improvements, he/she decides to sell it for $50,000....reason, he/she wants a profit. The realtor, says it won't sell for that, but the seller insists, so it goes on the market for whatever price the asker wants and lo and behold, someone desperate to live in that area, pays the overpriced figure. It sells, so those around figure, well, let's sell ours for much more than they are worth and get back vastly more than they paid for it in the first place. Hence the price of homes keeps skyrocketing, as people are gullible enough to pay what the price tag says, or close to it. Your retailer sells their product for a profit and each year, hike up the price and lo and behold, the public says, okay.
In England, the banks wanted to charge for withdrawals from their ATM's like the US does, the public said....no, in mass. Hence, the banks backed off and don't charge for using their ATM's.
Bottom line. We here in the US, are sheep. Whatever the companies claim they want you to pay for their product, we simply say, okay. If enough people rose up and said, "we're not paying that much for your product," the prices would stay down. But they don't, so the prices of all goods rise and companies are under no incentive to pay you more for your work, just because you can't afford certain products and thus your purchasing power deteriorates over time.
The solution isn't for government to take over companies. Governments are inefficient entities that only decrease productivity and as things dwindle, think less food products to choose from and less variety of other commodities, all the worker does is stay at the bottom of the feeding trough. The way for the public to maintain strong purchasing power is to not buy those products (food items aside as you have to eat), that you feel are overpriced. Do you really need that personal computer? Do you really need the latest cellphone? Do you really need the latest Nike's, Ultra-HD TV, a new car, designer clothing, or bigger home? If enough people inform companies that their product is overpriced and they're not going to pay the asking price, companies would have little choice to lower prices, or lose large amounts of sales.
A good example are pharmaceuticals. In the US we pay exorbitant amounts for the same drug that 3rd world nations pay pennies on the dollars for. The reason: "The US populace can afford to pay more and do."

A better example(s) would be pay per view boxing and cable bills. If everyone would just cancel their cable bills for a couple months the prices would have to go down. And boxing would go back to cable because no one is buying the Pay Per Views.