Are you a Christian or a Follower of Christ?

[Avatar4321]

An interesting new article:

Christian Versus Follower of Jesus | Newsweek BeliefWatch: Lisa Miller | Newsweek.com

Now, as the Christian world continues to refine its identity, another label is gaining currency: "follower of Jesus." It is gaining among the young. On Facebook, more than 900 groups use some variation of "follower of Jesus." The tag is also popular among people in the so-called fellowship movement—small, collegial groups that regularly meet for ecumenical prayer. (The weekly prayer breakfasts in Washington—one for senators, another for members of the House—are the most prominent example, but such fellowships are common at corporations too.) "Follower of Jesus" has at least two advantages over "Christian" or "evangelical," its boosters say. First, it doesn't carry baggage. You can wear it abroad, in Islamic countries, or at home with your Jewish or Buddhist friends, without causing offense. Second, it distances the bearer from the culture wars that have made American politics so divisive. David Durenberger, the former Republican senator from Minnesota, puts it this way. "As my party in particular has begun to characterize its base as 'Christian' and to express its values as 'Christian' values … it has been really important to identify myself as a follower of Jesus." The syndicated columnist Cal Thomas adds that "follower of Jesus" has the virtue of reflecting biblical truth: the earliest Christians called themselves "followers of the Way."

While many Christians applaud this effort to transcend labels and history, some also worry that "follower of Jesus" diverts people from the fundamentals. "Two questions constantly come up," says Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary. "The first is Christology. What about the full divinity of Christ? How much can you keep that in the background? Second, what's the role of the church in all this?" Brehm admits, guiltily, that he left his longtime church five years ago and is still shopping. For the time being, he finds communion in regular meetings with fellow followers of Jesus: "That's real church." To accusations that he's letting identity politics overshadow Christian tradition, Brehm delivers what he believes to be his knockout punch: Jesus, after all, said, "Follow me."

Two questions really jump out for me here:

1)Why are people always trying to relabel themselves? Why are the ashamed of what they are?

2)Why do you want to keep the full divinity of Christ in background?

 

[Kalam]

Two questions really jump out for me here:

1)Why are people always trying to relabel themselves? Why are the ashamed of what they are?

Perhaps they're ashamed of what Christianity has become. My guess is that they'd like to actually live by the moral teachings of Jesus as opposed to living amoral lifestyles and preaching fire and brimstone to whoever disagrees with them. I'm not sure... I don't know enough about the whole thing.

2)Why do you want to keep the full divinity of Christ in background?

If one's religion is based only on what the Bible says, Jesus is the "son of God" and it's never stated or insinuated that Jesus is God. The trinity was a non-Biblical creation of the Council of Nicea. Jesus being the son of God can either be interpreted literally, or if one doesn't subscribe to the doctrine of divine sonship, "son of god" can be taken metaphorically. Usage of the term throughout other areas of the Bible lends support to this position.

See Wisdom of Solomon 2:18
oremus Bible Browser : Wisdom 2:18

Genesis 6:2-4
oremus Bible Browser : Genesis 6:2-4

Psalm 2
oremus Bible Browser : Psalm 2

etc.

 

[Evangelical]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

 

[strollingbones]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

has anyone ever mentioned how judge fucking mental you are?

 

[Dr Grump]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

has anyone ever mentioned how judge fucking mental you are?

I'd drop the "judge" from the above and you'd be more on track.

Evangelical is the reason people turn away from Christianity. I don't see anything in common with what Jesus appeared to be and Evangelical. I reckon Jesus would find Evangelical disgusting...

 

[eots]

what would jesus think of this ??

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFoUZEjuNM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPb-PN9F2Pc[/ame]

 

[Newby]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

You are the type of 'Christian' that gives it a bad name. How can you say that you know anything about being a Christian whenever you imply that one person can be more 'moral' than another? Jesus taught that everyone walked in sin, everyone.

 

[Smartt33]

Christianity is a religion, and being a follower of Christ is about a personal relationship with God. I am a born again believer in God through Christ the Savior.

I am a member of a Christian church.

 

[Evangelical]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

You are the type of 'Christian' that gives it a bad name. How can you say that you know anything about being a Christian whenever you imply that one person can be more 'moral' than another? Jesus taught that everyone walked in sin, everyone.

I know about being a Christian because I am one. Someone who says they are a "follower of Jesus" is deliberately misrepresenting Christianity.

Christianity believes in the living Church, which is the Body of Christ, a Christian is IN CHRIST.

You cannot be IN CHRIST, if you are merely following him.

In fact I heard an excellent sermon about the very difference of "following" and "being in Christ" the other day, the Pastor asking "are you in Christ" and teaching his lesson of what it means to be saved.

You simply don't get it...

Also a person can be more moral by sanctifying themselves as best they can. Christians recognize that being saved however has nothing to do with how good or pure you are.

But, I explained that as well in my previous post.

 

[Evangelical]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

has anyone ever mentioned how judge fucking mental you are?

I'd drop the "judge" from the above and you'd be more on track.

Evangelical is the reason people turn away from Christianity. I don't see anything in common with what Jesus appeared to be and Evangelical. I reckon Jesus would find Evangelical disgusting...

First, Jesus finds no one disgusting.

Second, Jesus talked more about Hell than he did any other individual topic.

So what's your point?

 

[Avatar4321]

First, Jesus finds no one disgusting.

Second, Jesus talked more about Hell than he did any other individual topic.

So what's your point?

Bullcrap. Christ rarely talked about hell.

 

[JBeukema]

If one's religion is based only on what the Bible says, Jesus is the "son of God" and it's never stated or insinuated that Jesus is God.

Before moses was, I AM
he who knows me knows the father
the whole father, dove, son scene
there are probably more out there, but that's all I can think of

The trinity was a non-Biblical creation of the Council of Nicea

Genesis: Let us make man in our image...
OT: See ' the Angel of God' (capitalizationis important
NTL: Again, the whole dove scene where they talk about the holy spirit

I am a member of a Christian church.

Heresy! The bible only mentions one church, which is the body of christ


People, I should not know more about your religion than you do. This is pathetic- it's also why people stopped trying to convert me

 

[Avatar4321]

Don't realy care about most of the answer. Ill only address the parts I feel necessary:

Heresy! The bible only mentions one church, which is the body of christ

I know of several Christian churches mentioned in the Bible. The Book of Revelation is addressed to Seven of them. The Epistles of the New Testament were written to various Christian churches in different regions.

As for the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ was broken, killed, and rose from the grave in Glory and Power.

People, I should not know more about your religion than you do. This is pathetic- it's also why people stopped trying to convert me

Kalam isnt Christian and you sure as heck havent displayed knowledge of anyones religion. Let alone knowledge greater than others. Quite the opposite, you have demonstrated ignorance.

The amazing thing about Christianity is way the message can be so simplistic it can be taught with easy to a child, yet at the same time contain such depths and nuances that it can take years of study to learn. There is knowledge hidden in the scriptures that you dont even begin to fathom. Layers of it.

You can study the scriptures for a life time with disbelief and youll never learn what someone of faith will learn in 5 mins of humble pray to the Father.

 

[Evangelical]

First, Jesus finds no one disgusting.

Second, Jesus talked more about Hell than he did any other individual topic.

So what's your point?

Bullcrap. Christ rarely talked about hell.

Really?

In the Bible he's quoted talking about it 11 times and ~48 more in conjunction with money and how it leads you away from faith and to Hell.

 

[Avatar4321]

Really?

In the Bible he's quoted talking about it 11 times and ~48 more in conjunction with money and how it leads you away from faith and to Hell.

Yes. There arent even that many references in the New Testament, let alone the Gospels.

And a number of them are mistranslations. There are several different words that translate to hell in English. Unfortunately, they all have real different meanings that are quite lost in our language simply because of ignorance.

 

[Evangelical]

Really?

In the Bible he's quoted talking about it 11 times and ~48 more in conjunction with money and how it leads you away from faith and to Hell.

Yes. There arent even that many references in the New Testament, let alone the Gospels.

And a number of them are mistranslations. There are several different words that translate to hell in English. Unfortunately, they all have real different meanings that are quite lost in our language simply because of ignorance.

Did your "Bible as Literature" class tell you that.

Most people seek refuge in "mistranslations" as if there's any such thing in the Bible. The Bible has been combed over so vehemently with such fine teeth that it is impossible for you to not be able to inform yourself about what Jesus was actually talking about.

And you have to be pretty asinine to believe that Seminary students do not know ancient Greek and Hebrew and are unable to discern these things for themselves and pass them on to us.

Or to write them in various study Bibles.

 

[Terral]

Hi Avatar:

Are you a Christian or a Follower of Christ?

I am a member of Christ’s Body (1Cor. 12:27) saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10), according to Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message. Most of you are completely unaware of the fact that God called ‘Two Churches’ (my thread) using “Two Gospels” (my thread) in the New Testament, so this will be like trying to instruct first-graders on the subject of Analytical Geometry. :0) The short answer is that I am a member of Church #2 by obeying Gospel #2 that most of you guys mix together into a false gospel for your fake church where ‘servants of righteousness’ serve their ‘angel of light’ (2Cor. 11:14-15) only thinking they are Christians. Jesus Christ was sent to ISRAEL ONLY in the Four Gospels:

“But He answered and said, "I was sent ONLY to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel." Matthew 15:24.

Those among you wanting to believe that God sent Jesus Christ to EVERYBODY are deluding yourselves and nothing in my posts is directed at you. Jesus Christ teaches “ISRAEL” and His Kingdom Disciples, obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1), that ‘they’ obtain ‘eternal life’ by ‘keeping the commandments’ (Matt. 19:16-17); because Israel of the flesh remains under Mosaic Law until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19). The next important fact to realize about Christ’s ‘Earthly Ministry’ to Israel ONLY is that only the ‘few’ are being saved and the “MANY” are on the wide road to utter destruction:

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are ‘few’ who find it.” Matthew 7:13-14.

“And someone said to Him, ‘Lord, are there just a ‘few’ who are being saved?’ And He said to them, ‘Strive to enter through the narrow door; for MANY, I tell you, will seek to enter and will NOT be able. Once the head of the house (Matt 17:10-11/Acts 3:22-23) gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then he will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'” Luke 13:23-25.

The lesson here is that the MANY blinded by Denominationalism are on the WIDE ROAD to destruction, while only a selected ‘few’ are on the path to Life ‘and’ things are NOT even close to how they appear to be. Jesus Christ is teaching ‘one thing’ (Kingdom Doctrine) in the Four Gospels ‘and’ teaching something very different (Grace Doctrine) to the members of Christ’s Body (Church #2) throughout the Pauline Epistles ‘and’ you guys are mixing those ‘two witnesses’ (blood and water) together into an abomination that God sent to NOBODY.

1)Why are people always trying to relabel themselves?

Why do people ask questions completely separate from their OP Topic? :0) Let’s try to help your cause by asking:

Why do professing Christians try to place new tags upon themselves and their church dogma?

The professing Christians seeking to redefine themselves have no basis in ‘the truth’ taught by God’s Living ‘and’ Triune Word (pic), so they possess nothing of real Spiritual value upon which to anchor their fake ‘faith’ and the rest is “deluding influence” (2Thes. 2:11) history. Peter warns about distorting the ‘wisdom given him’ (Paul), but the ‘many’ mix doctrinal components of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” with Paul’s “Word of the Cross” gospel message without one clue as to what they are even doing.

“Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand [1Cor. 2:6-8], which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2Peter 3:14-16.

Those among you (the many) mixing the doctrinal precepts teaching Paul’s “Word of the Cross” gospel message (#2) with Peter’s “Gospel of the Kingdom” (#1) are GUILTY of distorting the ‘wisdom given him’ to YOUR OWN DESTRUCTION. Period. Therefore, we have “MANY” professing Christians seeking to ‘relabel’ themselves without one clue that “Our Gospel [#2] is VEILED to those who are PERISHING.” 2Corinthians 4:3-4. Since you blend the ‘Two Gospels’ together into one fake gospel, then you fail to realize that our gospel (#2) is “according to the revelation of THE MYSTERY” (Rom. 16:25) that was given ONLY to the Apostle Paul (Eph. 3:3) through a 'revelation of Jesus Christ' from heaven.

Gospel #2 was given to Paul by OUR RISEN LORD ‘after’ God raised Christ from the dead, which contradicts everything that He taught to Israel ONLY in the Four Gospels. Eternal life for ISRAEL includes keeping the commandments, but ‘our’ eternal life is the free gift of God (Rom. 6:22-23) that must be accepted as the ‘gift of God’ (Eph. 2:8-10) WITHOUT adding your works from the Gospel of the Kingdom (repentance, confession of sins, water baptism for the forgiveness of sins, laying hands for the Holy Spirit) or anywhere else! Since these ‘professing’ Christians have purchased the counterfeit from Satan, then changing their manmade tags and manmade/twisted church dogma is as easy as changing socks in the morning . . .

Why are they ashamed of what they are?

This is your supposition about professing Christians, because those on the wide road to destruction have no clue about what they ‘really’ are in relation to the ‘angel of light’ they serve every damned day of their existence on this planet. The real Christians are baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) on the right side of this diagram 'and' those baptized into the antichrist (the MANY) are on the left side very much baptized into the 'antithesis' of Christ Jesus. These ‘fake’ sheep are wolves going about destroying others with their false dogma that adds new members to the ‘body of antichrist’ through every form of ‘wickedness’ (2Thes. 2:12) known to mankind. They are like Morpheus handing out the red and blue pill to Neo (pic), when in reality ‘both’ pills are filled with the kind of poison that destroys the essence of his very soul.

2)Why do you want to keep the full divinity of Christ in background?

The full divinity of what? :0) Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and “God” raised Him from the dead (Rom. 10:9) on the third day (1Cor. 15:3-4), according to Paul's Gospel #2. There is only ONE GOD (1Tim. 2:5 = pic) ‘and’ Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” BETWEEN God ‘and’ men of the same cotton-picking verse! Jesus Christ is praying to the “Only True God” in John 17:3 ‘and’ Jesus Christ is still the “Son of the Living God” (Matt. 16:15-17) every day of the week and twice on Sunday. :0) Those among you worshipping the “Son of God” as “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8 = pic) are guilty of IDOLATRY, because Scripture commands that Israel is NOT to fashion an idol from anything IN HEAVEN (Ex. 20:4) ‘and’ Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life that God sent down FROM HEAVEN (John 6:51). The sad fact is that the vast ‘majority’ here has no clue about the differences between the “Only True God” and “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (spirit witness of The Word/Christ = my thread), which is the reason I characterize ‘you’ as first-graders without even one clue . . .

God and The Word are “ONE” in God’s Infinite Realm (far left), where ‘you are gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) but God called upon His Living Word to incarnate as “Heaven” of Genesis 1:1 (The Word of John 1:1-3/14) and as the “Highest Heaven” of 1Kings 8:27; which is the very place where “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Matt. 10:32-33) originates in the first place. Therefore, by your own line of questioning, I can see that you would ‘replace’ the Only True God with His Only Begotten Son as ‘your’ idol of worship; which numbers ‘you’ among the ‘many’ very much pounding the wide road to utter obliteration on the way to your own demise . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[Newby]

I guarantee you these "followers of Jesus" are more immoral than Christians, because they are hippies, sent by leftist propaganda to tear down the Gospel and build up a false golden idol.

They don't love Christ, they simply use him to "identify" with something "cool".

You are the type of 'Christian' that gives it a bad name. How can you say that you know anything about being a Christian whenever you imply that one person can be more 'moral' than another? Jesus taught that everyone walked in sin, everyone.

I know about being a Christian because I am one. Someone who says they are a "follower of Jesus" is deliberately misrepresenting Christianity.

Christianity believes in the living Church, which is the Body of Christ, a Christian is IN CHRIST.

You cannot be IN CHRIST, if you are merely following him.

In fact I heard an excellent sermon about the very difference of "following" and "being in Christ" the other day, the Pastor asking "are you in Christ" and teaching his lesson of what it means to be saved.

You simply don't get it...

Also a person can be more moral by sanctifying themselves as best they can. Christians recognize that being saved however has nothing to do with how good or pure you are.

But, I explained that as well in my previous post.

That was a very nice post, but it failed to address my question. Does being a Christian make you more 'moral' than other people? I'm a Christian as well, and if you have accepted Jesus into your heart, asked for forgiveness and were baptized in His name, then it doesn't matter what label you give yourself. Why is the label so important to you? It shouldn't be.

 

[editec]

An interesting new article:

Christian Versus Follower of Jesus | Newsweek BeliefWatch: Lisa Miller | Newsweek.com

Now, as the Christian world continues to refine its identity, another label is gaining currency: "follower of Jesus." It is gaining among the young. On Facebook, more than 900 groups use some variation of "follower of Jesus." The tag is also popular among people in the so-called fellowship movement—small, collegial groups that regularly meet for ecumenical prayer. (The weekly prayer breakfasts in Washington—one for senators, another for members of the House—are the most prominent example, but such fellowships are common at corporations too.) "Follower of Jesus" has at least two advantages over "Christian" or "evangelical," its boosters say. First, it doesn't carry baggage. You can wear it abroad, in Islamic countries, or at home with your Jewish or Buddhist friends, without causing offense. Second, it distances the bearer from the culture wars that have made American politics so divisive. David Durenberger, the former Republican senator from Minnesota, puts it this way. "As my party in particular has begun to characterize its base as 'Christian' and to express its values as 'Christian' values … it has been really important to identify myself as a follower of Jesus." The syndicated columnist Cal Thomas adds that "follower of Jesus" has the virtue of reflecting biblical truth: the earliest Christians called themselves "followers of the Way."

While many Christians applaud this effort to transcend labels and history, some also worry that "follower of Jesus" diverts people from the fundamentals. "Two questions constantly come up," says Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary. "The first is Christology. What about the full divinity of Christ? How much can you keep that in the background? Second, what's the role of the church in all this?" Brehm admits, guiltily, that he left his longtime church five years ago and is still shopping. For the time being, he finds communion in regular meetings with fellow followers of Jesus: "That's real church." To accusations that he's letting identity politics overshadow Christian tradition, Brehm delivers what he believes to be his knockout punch: Jesus, after all, said, "Follow me."

Two questions really jump out for me here:

1)Why are people always trying to relabel themselves?

Accuracy, perhaps?

Why are the ashamed of what they are?

Why not be honest and just say what you think instead of asking a rhetorical question which is really your editorial about them?

2)Why do you want to keep the full divinity of Christ in background?

Perhaps they, like so many early christians, simply don't believe the current dogma about the divinity of Jesus.

 

[Newby]

Perhaps they, like so many early christians, simply don't believe the current dogma about the divinity of Jesus.

And if that is true, then you are making Avatar's point for him/her. If they are only seeing him a philosopher of some kind, and don't believe in the divinity, then they are different than Christians, which might explain the different label.