Are Wisconsin’s Public Employees Overpaid?

[georgephillip]

The problem with what the governor has done is that he is literally pulling the rug out from under people whose own personal budgets have depended on what they earn NOW. There's undoubtedly room for cuts, but not before honest negotiation takes place, just as it has in many other states. You don't just start DICTATING something that will drastically and immediately affect the income people have come to rely upon.

It's Walker's attitude that needs adjusting, not public payrolls.

I agree with this. His attitude to democrats and unions piss me off the most. I mean he says he doesn't want to have unions hampering the budget but then wants the government to hamper the unions. It's called negotiations, you meet in the middle. Not you always get your way. He needs to be gone ASAP

How does one meet in the middle between not enough money and not enough money? Where is the middle ground?

Somewhere between the 9% of national wealth the richest 1% of Americans possessed in the late 1970s and the 20+% they own today.

"At the same time, the super-rich have been contributing a steadily-declining share of their own incomes in taxes to support what the nation needs — both at the federal and at the state levels."

Shutdowns and Showdowns

 

[asterism]

For example to teach mathematics at the secondary level a person must complete the following...

Check the parameters again.

Your parameter was a Sports Medicine major teaching algebra.

It can happen, but they will have the prerequisites for the mathematics endorsement.

1. Graduated from an approved teacher preparation program in mathematics; or
2. Completed a major in mathematics or 36 semester hours of coursework
distributed in each of the following areas:

a. Algebra – Experience shall include linear (matrices, vectors, and linear
transformations) and abstract algebra (ring, group, and field theory). A
college or university may integrate the competencies within specified
coursework and document the completion of these competencies;
b. Geometry – Experience shall include Euclidean and non-Euclidean
geometries;
c. Analytic geometry;
d. Probability and statistics;
e. Discrete mathematics – Experience shall include the study of
mathematical properties of finite sets and systems and linear
programming;
f. Computer science – Experience shall include computer programming;
and
g. Calculus – Experience shall include multivariable calculus.​

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching/licensure/licensure_regs.pdf​

There is nothing wrong with majoring in sports medicine, but if you want to teach mathematics you also have the other coursework required to develop a mastery of mathematics.

I'm aware of the standards we're told are required, but as it turns out the coaches still teach Math and Biology with absolutely no clue.

Not in our schools. If a coach teaches a core class, they must carry the license and endorsement to teach the class or - well - they don't teach the class.

See as part of No Child Left Behind we have to report each teacher and the classes they teach to the State DOE, DOE then compares the course with the licensure status of the teacher to determine if they are Highly Qualified. Failure to have Highly Qualified teachers teaching core classes can impact our accreditation.


>>>>

I'm aware of the government publications that say these things don't happen. Meanwhile, seniority and special exemptions exist. Coaches teach Algebra and Elementary School Math teachers can't balance their own checkbooks.

Perhaps the evaluation system is flawed.

 

[asterism]

Another dimwit mistake, actually.

Do you blame Wall Street or Government for the collapse of the housing bubble?

I blame people making poor financial choices and I blame the education system for enabling it. I also blame human nature and see boom and bust cycles as part of the human fabric. I blame all those progressives who advocated all sorts of expensive measures with the express intent of preventing this in the first place.

Lastly, I blame everyone taking advantage of this crisis to prove their ideology. That's you, by the way.

Do you blame Scott Walker for signing off on $117 million in corporate tax breaks while Wisconsin's immediate budget shortfall is $137 million?

It depends on the results.

Do you blame Republicans or Democrats for extending the Bush tax cuts with the clear intent of extending them for the next ten years at a cost of $900 billion?

I don't have a static Keynesian view of the economy.

Who gets credit for concentrating more and more of the nation's wealth and income within the richest 1% of the population?

The 1% that know how to manage money better than the other 99%.

Wisconsin's teachers?

Too rhetorical and should be fired. They had the opportunity to negotiate and outsourced that function to a third party. They chose wrong and now they are mad.

Or the Koch brothers and their political hacks like Scott Walker?

Play that boogeyman skit to your heart's content. My view actually benefits it you can so easily write off anything like this to astroturf.

Shutdowns and Showdowns

Speaking of astroturf. Do you even know who Reich is?

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'm aware of the government publications that say these things don't happen. Meanwhile, seniority and special exemptions exist. Coaches teach Algebra and Elementary School Math teachers can't balance their own checkbooks.

There are something like 48,000,000 public school students in 15,000 different districts servicing 88,000 different school buildings.

I won't claim that it has never happened, that would be dishonest.

However I'm the Oracle Administrator in Human Resources for a school district and responsible for local, state, and federal level reporting criteria for our system.

Simply put your implication that it is common, especially considering NCLB accreditation requirements is simply hogwash.

Perhaps the evaluation system is flawed.

Or maybe the problem is that people make hyperbolic shit up.



Well time for bed, I've got to go to work for schools tomorrow. Have a good night.

>>>>

 

[asterism]

I agree with this. His attitude to democrats and unions piss me off the most. I mean he says he doesn't want to have unions hampering the budget but then wants the government to hamper the unions. It's called negotiations, you meet in the middle. Not you always get your way. He needs to be gone ASAP

How does one meet in the middle between not enough money and not enough money? Where is the middle ground?

Somewhere between the 9% of national wealth the richest 1% of Americans possessed in the late 1970s and the 20+% they own today.

Well then first teach those teachers how to manage money and then maybe we'll address the issue of wealth. Until then let's remember that generally below $200K per year for a long time there really isn't any accumulation of wealth. Address the causes of that first.

"At the same time, the super-rich have been contributing a steadily-declining share of their own incomes in taxes to support what the nation needs — both at the federal and at the state levels."

Shutdowns and Showdowns

But I'm not super-rich and I still have to pay more every single year since I started working.

 

[syrenn]

Are Public Employees Overpaid?

Governor Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

Walker’s Renewed War on Workers

"Teachers are givers in a world dominated by takers, and they're also sharers. This collaborative instinct makes our profession unlike any other."
Barbara Keshishian

Better then being fired isn't it?

 

[chanel]

This is the big issue that I don't think has been mentioned:

Collective Bargaining – Given the above changes, the bill also makes various changes to limit
collective bargaining to the base pay rate. Total increases cannot exceed the Consumer Price Index (CPI)
unless approved by a referendum. Contracts will be limited to one year and wages will be frozen until
the new contract is settled. Collective bargaining units will have to take annual votes to maintain
certification as a union. Employers will be prohibited from collecting union dues and members of
collective bargaining units will not be required to pay dues. These changes take effect upon the
expiration of existing contracts. Local police and fire employees and State Patrol Troopers and
Inspectors are exempted from these changes.

http://thewheelerreport.com/releases/February11/0211/0211walkerletter.pdf

It's a lot less painful having an automatic deduction from one's pay than receiving a bill for a $1000. Hitting the unions in the pocketbook will be the death of them.

 

[asterism]

I'm aware of the government publications that say these things don't happen. Meanwhile, seniority and special exemptions exist. Coaches teach Algebra and Elementary School Math teachers can't balance their own checkbooks.

There are something like 48,000,000 public school students in 15,000 different districts servicing 88,000 different school buildings.

Probably too big for single control huh?

I won't claim that it has never happened, that would be dishonest.

Very good. Maybe you can figure out what's wrong here while at the same time saying the Department of Education should manage this.

However I'm the Oracle Administrator in Human Resources for a school district and responsible for local, state, and federal level reporting criteria for our system.

Simply put your implication that it is common, especially considering NCLB accreditation requirements is simply hogwash.

You say hogwash I say reality.

Perhaps the evaluation system is flawed.

Or maybe the problem is that people make hyperbolic shit up.

Ah. Is that how you address all the concerns by taxpayers?

Well time for bed, I've got to go to work for schools tomorrow. Have a good night.

>>>>

Good night (well good morning now).

 

[georgephillip]

Milwaukee County must offer to reinstate courthouse security guards - JSOnline

Milwaukee County must offer to reinstate 26 courthouse security guards who were laid off nearly a year ago when then-County Executive Scott Walker replaced them with private guards as an emergency budget measure, according to an arbitrator's decision issued Monday.

Walker was sworn in as governor last week.

The county did not have a true budget crisis at the time and county officials failed to give the union representing the security guards an opportunity to make some alternative cost-saving proposals before laying them off, according to the decision from arbitrator Amedeo Greco.

Greco's ruling also said the $125,000 annual savings from privatizing the courthouse security estimated by county officials was overstated by nearly $53,000.

"It's another example here of penny-wise, pound-foolish," said Patricia Yunk, policy director for District Council 48 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. She said Walker's emergency outsourcing move of courthouse security was an example of how his strategy of punishing unions that failed to agree to concessions went awry. <more>

Who's the single largest employer in the US economy?

According to Robert Pollin and Jeffrey Thompson, it's the combined workforces of state and local governments.

Just coincidentally they also happen to be this country's most significant providers of productive social support ranging from education to public safety and health care.

Not surprisingly, the hedge fund magnates and their political apparacheks responsible for our Great Recession are trying to deflect attention from their own crimes by blaming nurses and schoolteachers.

"The Wall Street&#8211;induced recession clobbered state and local government budgets.

"By 2009, state tax revenues had fallen by fully 13 percent relative to where they were in 2007, and they remained at that low level through most of last year.

"By comparison, revenues never fell by more than 6 percent in the 2001 recession.

"Even during the 1981&#8211;82 recession, the last time unemployment reached 9 percent, the decline in state tax revenues never exceeded 2 percent.

"These revenue losses, starting in 2008, when taken together with the increased demand for state services, produced an average annual budget gap in 2009&#8211;11 of $140 billion, or 21 percent of all state spending commitments."

btw, it appears North Dakota solved this problem in 1919 when it began doing business as the State Bank of North Dakota.

Ellen Brown has all the details.

 

[editec]

every states' employees are overpaid. people aren't in the mood for being sympathetic to well paid teachers whining about being well paid, with vacations and summers off and a phat benny package. teachers can speak for themselves, they don't need to be exploited by the union. fire the crummy teachers, bag the union, everybody's a winner except the teacher duds and the union leaders. this has nothing to do with egypt or bahrain, i wish it did.

Were all you right wingers 'present counters' at Christmas? American teachers are not overpaid.

Teacher Pay Around the World

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development released a trove of fascinating statistics on education around the world on Tuesday. Given increasing interest in how well the American education system is preparing today’s students for tomorrow’s economy, let’s look at how measures of United States education stack up alongside the systems of our peer countries.

First let’s look at teachers. Compared to other developed countries, in the United States teachers generally spend more time teaching but apparently without an equivalent advantage in pay.

American teachers spend on average 1,080 hours teaching each year. Across the O.E.C.D., the average is 794 hours on primary education, 709 hours on lower secondary education, and 653 hours on upper secondary education general programs.

American teachers’ pay is more middling. The average public primary-school teacher who has worked 15 years and has received the minimum amount of training, for example, earns $43,633, compared to the O.E.C.D. average of $39,007.

Comparing each country’s teacher salaries to the wealth of that country makes United States educational salaries appear lower. In the United States, a teacher with 15 years of experience makes a salary that is 96 percent of the country’s gross domestic product per capita. Across the O.E.C.D., a teacher of equivalent experience makes 117 percent of G.D.P. per capita. At the high end of the scale, in Korea, the average teacher at this level makes a full 221 percent of the country’s G.D.P. per capita.

On the aaverage wisconsins teachers make 100,00 dollars a year. They can afford to pay a little for their health insurance premiums They can stop crying and go back to work. Speaking of work, if I was the Gov. I would make them make up every day they kept the schools closed so they could protest.

You have been misinformed, Lad.

The starting slary for public school teachers in WI is $25,222

The average public school teacher's salary in WI is $46,390.

Now seriously...do you think that is too much compensation for people who have to spend something approaching $100,000 over four years to get their college degree and who also have to pass a professional test to get licensed to teach?

$46,000?! That amount offends you?

Why?

 

[Liberty]

Any, Bfgrn, you moron,

The Wisconsin law proposal makes public sector workers pay 4% more for their benefits, it DOES NOT AFFECT WAGES. Wake up.

 

[georgephillip]

Were all you right wingers 'present counters' at Christmas? American teachers are not overpaid.

Teacher Pay Around the World

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development released a trove of fascinating statistics on education around the world on Tuesday. Given increasing interest in how well the American education system is preparing today’s students for tomorrow’s economy, let’s look at how measures of United States education stack up alongside the systems of our peer countries.

First let’s look at teachers. Compared to other developed countries, in the United States teachers generally spend more time teaching but apparently without an equivalent advantage in pay.

American teachers spend on average 1,080 hours teaching each year. Across the O.E.C.D., the average is 794 hours on primary education, 709 hours on lower secondary education, and 653 hours on upper secondary education general programs.

American teachers’ pay is more middling. The average public primary-school teacher who has worked 15 years and has received the minimum amount of training, for example, earns $43,633, compared to the O.E.C.D. average of $39,007.

Comparing each country’s teacher salaries to the wealth of that country makes United States educational salaries appear lower. In the United States, a teacher with 15 years of experience makes a salary that is 96 percent of the country’s gross domestic product per capita. Across the O.E.C.D., a teacher of equivalent experience makes 117 percent of G.D.P. per capita. At the high end of the scale, in Korea, the average teacher at this level makes a full 221 percent of the country’s G.D.P. per capita.

On the aaverage wisconsins teachers make 100,00 dollars a year. They can afford to pay a little for their health insurance premiums They can stop crying and go back to work. Speaking of work, if I was the Gov. I would make them make up every day they kept the schools closed so they could protest.

You have been misinformed, Lad.

The starting slary for public school teachers in WI is $25,222

The average public school teacher's salary in WI is $46,390.

Now seriously...do you think that is too much compensation for people who have to spend something approaching $100,000 over four years to get their college degree and who also have to pass a professional test to get licensed to teach?

$46,000?! That amount offends you?

Why?

"Politicians on the right would have us believe that it's not Wall Street that caused the economic mess vexing the nation. Rather it's public sector workers. Those workers and their unions are the new scapegoats for the country's economic woes.

"Incoming GOP Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker recently declared, 'We can no longer live in a society where the public employees are the haves and the taxpayers who foot the bill are the have-nots.'"

'Think it's too late for Walker to go back and finish college?

Cutting From the Bottom

 

[WorldWatcher]

Probably too big for single control huh?

Definitely, that's why control spreads through multiple levels mostly from State Departments of Education through local school boards.

Very good. Maybe you can figure out what's wrong here while at the same time saying the Department of Education should manage this.

Department of Educations do not manage individual class assignments, DOE's manage teacher licensure (to teach) and endorsements (specific areas of expertise).

Local schools are the ones that develop individual class schedules and should ensure that when a teacher is assigned to teach a class they are: (a) licensed to teach, and (b) highly qualified in the subject matter.

You say hogwash I say reality.

Your claim to reality does not make it reality.

Ah. Is that how you address all the concerns by taxpayers?

Not in the least, that's how I address hyperbolic claims of an anonymous poster on an internet message board. Go back and review and you will note that I never said it would never happen, public education supports about 48,000,000 students in 88,000 districts, by about 6,000,000 teachers - I'm sure in a system that large there are errors made. I simply pointed out that it would not be common and that schools that allowed such a situation to exist would threaten their accreditation under NCLB reporting requirements.

In other contexts my responses would be different and BTW I've always received very high marks in customer service on my performance reviews. See on an anonymous internet board I can tell you that I think you pulled your statement about coaches teaching algebra out of your ass and not worry about it. On the other hand if you were to come into our office and inquire then I would be completely polite keeping my personal thoughts to myself.

So if you came into the office this is what would happen. You would address your concern to the HR Technician at the front desk. Since it involves teacher licensure as a function of classes taught she would call me as the HRIS and person responsible for the state mandated Instructional Personnel and Licensure (IPALS) report. First of all I would point out that whether the person in question is a "coach" or not is irrelevant to the fundamental question of whether an unqualified person is teaching a secondary math class (i.e. algebra). If you were inquiring in general, I would show you a copy of the latest IPALs report which shows by school, by subject, by teacher those who are teaching core classes that are not qualified in their subject. BTW that report is very slim as 99.54% of core, non-spec ed classes are taught by only Highly Qualified personnel. That report would reflect that there are no math teachers teaching without a proper endorsement.

If you were inquiring about a specific teacher, I would take you over to one of our employment kiosks and take you to the Virginia Department of Education website which allows for any individual anywhere in the world to lookup a teacher by name and determine (for Virginia): their license type, expiration date, and which shows a list of all endorsements they have for subjects. You could then determine for yourself if a person was qualified to teach algebra.

If an individual addresses such a question to the School Board or to the Director of Human Resources I would be responsible for providing relevant data for them to answer the question. Again if it was based on an individual, I would respond with the license and endorsement status of that individual. On the other hand if the question was more general, such as, "Are all math teachers teaching algebra endorsed for that subject?" Then that would take a little more work as it would require me to query the Student Instructional Database to determine who is teaching algebra classes. The results of who is teaching that subject then becomes the basis for a new query into Oracle Human Resources to extract license and endorsement information on all algebra teachers. The two resulting data sets would then be cross-checked to identify anyone teaching algebra who is not licensed and endorsed in that subject. The results of that data mining would then be given to the appropriate person to respond to your inquiry. In this case the answer would be "Zero, all algebra teachers are endorsed."


********************************

At work serious inquires are treated in a serious and professional manner. On the other hand on an anonymous message board when dealing with someone that pulls something out of their ass in an attempt to demonize teachers with broad brush implication of incompetence, then I'm not required to address issues seriously (although I have.)


>>>>

 

[Big Fitz]

Here's a better question:

Are teachers WORTH what they are paid?

Nice little nibblet of an article may shine some light on this discussion:

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can

Some quotes from the article.

In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”

And the problem isn't just in WI.

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

How is this value for our money when in WI they spend over 10k per pupil and that is more than a 4k jump from 1998 to 2008 with ZERO IMPROVEMENT?!?

And they wonder why privatization is the answer to education in America. You don't perform, you don't keep your contract and no union saves your incompetent butt.

 

[asterism]

Probably too big for single control huh?

Definitely, that's why control spreads through multiple levels mostly from State Departments of Education through local school boards.

Very good. Maybe you can figure out what's wrong here while at the same time saying the Department of Education should manage this.

Department of Educations do not manage individual class assignments, DOE's manage teacher licensure (to teach) and endorsements (specific areas of expertise).

Local schools are the ones that develop individual class schedules and should ensure that when a teacher is assigned to teach a class they are: (a) licensed to teach, and (b) highly qualified in the subject matter.

You say hogwash I say reality.

Your claim to reality does not make it reality.

Ah. Is that how you address all the concerns by taxpayers?

Not in the least, that's how I address hyperbolic claims of an anonymous poster on an internet message board. Go back and review and you will note that I never said it would never happen, public education supports about 48,000,000 students in 88,000 districts, by about 6,000,000 teachers - I'm sure in a system that large there are errors made. I simply pointed out that it would not be common and that schools that allowed such a situation to exist would threaten their accreditation under NCLB reporting requirements.

In other contexts my responses would be different and BTW I've always received very high marks in customer service on my performance reviews. See on an anonymous internet board I can tell you that I think you pulled your statement about coaches teaching algebra out of your ass and not worry about it. On the other hand if you were to come into our office and inquire then I would be completely polite keeping my personal thoughts to myself.

So if you came into the office this is what would happen. You would address your concern to the HR Technician at the front desk. Since it involves teacher licensure as a function of classes taught she would call me as the HRIS and person responsible for the state mandated Instructional Personnel and Licensure (IPALS) report. First of all I would point out that whether the person in question is a "coach" or not is irrelevant to the fundamental question of whether an unqualified person is teaching a secondary math class (i.e. algebra). If you were inquiring in general, I would show you a copy of the latest IPALs report which shows by school, by subject, by teacher those who are teaching core classes that are not qualified in their subject. BTW that report is very slim as 99.54% of core, non-spec ed classes are taught by only Highly Qualified personnel. That report would reflect that there are no math teachers teaching without a proper endorsement.

If you were inquiring about a specific teacher, I would take you over to one of our employment kiosks and take you to the Virginia Department of Education website which allows for any individual anywhere in the world to lookup a teacher by name and determine (for Virginia): their license type, expiration date, and which shows a list of all endorsements they have for subjects. You could then determine for yourself if a person was qualified to teach algebra.

If an individual addresses such a question to the School Board or to the Director of Human Resources I would be responsible for providing relevant data for them to answer the question. Again if it was based on an individual, I would respond with the license and endorsement status of that individual. On the other hand if the question was more general, such as, "Are all math teachers teaching algebra endorsed for that subject?" Then that would take a little more work as it would require me to query the Student Instructional Database to determine who is teaching algebra classes. The results of who is teaching that subject then becomes the basis for a new query into Oracle Human Resources to extract license and endorsement information on all algebra teachers. The two resulting data sets would then be cross-checked to identify anyone teaching algebra who is not licensed and endorsed in that subject. The results of that data mining would then be given to the appropriate person to respond to your inquiry. In this case the answer would be "Zero, all algebra teachers are endorsed."


********************************

At work serious inquires are treated in a serious and professional manner. On the other hand on an anonymous message board when dealing with someone that pulls something out of their ass in an attempt to demonize teachers with broad brush implication of incompetence, then I'm not required to address issues seriously (although I have.)


>>>>

And how was that endorsement earned?

I know the guy. He never took Algebra in college. He has no qualification to teach Algebra even according to him. But it's either that or go to another school to coach (his "real" job according to him).

You can believe what you choose to believe.

 

[WorldWatcher]

And how was that endorsement earned?

I already posted the 36 semester hour requirements (math specific) for licensure in Virginia to obtain a mathematics endorsement.

What the requirements are in your state? I suggest you visit your DOE web site to find out.

I know the guy. He never took Algebra in college. He has no qualification to teach Algebra even according to him. But it's either that or go to another school to coach (his "real" job according to him).

I can't answer for imaginary friends that people make up for posting on the internet.

You can believe what you choose to believe.

Don't worry I do believe what I believe, the difference is I support my statements with facts.



>>>>

 

[Samson]

Here's a better question:

Are teachers WORTH what they are paid?

Nice little nibblet of an article may shine some light on this discussion:

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can

Some quotes from the article.

In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”

And the problem isn't just in WI.

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

How is this value for our money when in WI they spend over 10k per pupil and that is more than a 4k jump from 1998 to 2008 with ZERO IMPROVEMENT?!?

And they wonder why privatization is the answer to education in America. You don't perform, you don't keep your contract and no union saves your incompetent butt.

This assumes that teachers begin with a population capable of learning.

"Nationwide" we make the assuption that ALL kids are capable.....then we compare ourselves with other industrialsed countries (Obama's SOUA) and find that we have fallen to 9th place in Math. The countries we compare ourselve with DO NOT BELIEVE EVERY CHILD CAN LEARN MATH!

We are giving teachers sows' ears to produce silk purses: Other countries give their teachers SILK, or at least cotton, and don't waste their time on pig's ears.

 

[Charles_Main]

Are Wisconsin&#8217;s Public Employees Overpaid?

If you consider their extremely favorable Pension plans, No cost health care, and other benefits, and in the case of Teachers the 4 months a year they get off.

Yes, compared to their Peers they are over paid, and paid by tax payers 100%

Last time I checked Wis had one of the highest cost per students in the country. Yet their students score very low comparatively.

If some private company was running those schools and bringing the results they currently have. Most of you People now supporting the Union would be calling for the Teachers to put up or shut up.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If you consider their extremely favorable Pension plans, No cost health care, and other benefits, and in the case of Teachers the 4 months a year they get off.

Wisconsin teachers already pay 6% toward health insurance and that the proposal is to increase it to 12.6%. So they do not have "no cost health care" currently.

(Less than many yes, that is true, but no cost is false.)

Last time I checked Wis had one of the highest cost per students in the country. Yet their students score very low comparatively.

Actually Wisconsin was ranked 18th in cost per pupil at $10,529 with the national average at $9,963. Much lower than the $15,100 for Vermont and clumped in 17-24 ranking for those spending in the $10,000 range. Link


For that cost per pupil Wisconsin students Rank #2 in composite SAT Scores (Link)

And

For that cost per pupil Wisconsin students Rank #3 in ACT Composite Scores (Link).



>>>>

 

[shintao]

Here's a better question:

Are teachers WORTH what they are paid?

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

How is this value for our money when in WI they spend over 10k per pupil and that is more than a 4k jump from 1998 to 2008 with ZERO IMPROVEMENT?!?

And they wonder why privatization is the answer to education in America. You don't perform, you don't keep your contract and no union saves your incompetent butt.

Did the teachers pass their reading proficiency tests? Did 30% of students pass the proficiency tests? So it wasn't teachers, and it wasn't students who applied themselves.

Conclusion: You can't blame teachers or students who applied themselves to the task, so YES, teachers earned their money. It must have been governor Walker who stressed 66% of the children out.